Does free will exist?

Knowledge91 said:
Were did I say anything about revenge? I can not strike until struck.
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:confused:
Is that not a very definition of revenge??? :shrug:

And you say you "can not strike until struck" (yet somehow not in any manner that resembles revenge)... yet this goes against the later teachings of Jesus [see Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well." (International Standard Version 2008)]
How do you reconcile this with your "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" approach from Exodus 21?
 
Sarkus said:
How do you reconcile this with your "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" approach from Exodus 21?
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He doesn't care about scripture. His particular brand of theism consists of smoking joints and making it all up as he goes along.
 
Sarkus said:
:confused:
Is that not a very definition of revenge??? :shrug:
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Any man who stands there and takes a beating is no man at all, this is why slaves will be judged the same as the rich.

And you say you "can not strike until struck" (yet somehow not in any manner that resembles revenge)...
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Jesus lived a long long time ago my friend, even he will return with rod in hand.

yet this goes against the later teachings of Jesus [see Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well."
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I wasn't sent here to be crucified.

(International Standard Version 2008)]
How do you reconcile this with your "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" approach from Exodus 21?
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Thats partially what I go by.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Would a pacifist not defend himself?
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If he wouldn't defend himself, he would risk harm being done to himself - which would be against the idea of pacifism.
Whether he would defend himself or not, either way, he would betray his pacifism.

Pacifists run into many double binds with their pacifist outlook.
 
Knowledge91 said:
If you do not stand up for yourself why should God? It doesn't mean he won't, but God did say eye for an eye.
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Apparantly God said that to Jews, a later Jew, Jesus, gave his followers another message. Other people have heard other things from what was or what they thought was God. Christians are pretty free to decide themselves given the mixed messages in the OT and NT.
 
Signal said:
If he wouldn't defend himself, he would risk harm being done to himself - which would be against the idea of pacifism.
Whether he would defend himself or not, either way, he would betray his pacifism.

Pacifists run into many double binds with their pacifist outlook.
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A pacifist is not contradicting his or her stance if they risk harming themselves. A pacifist is taking a stance about what violence they will commit. Pacifism can even be limited to rejecting military service - iow refusing to take part in war. I am pretty sure that pacifism is not a commitment to not be harmed. In fact some, like Ghandi and MLK, knew they would be harmed.
 
@Pineal --

Just a bit of semantics here but Gandhi isn't really the best example of pacifism as "willing to be harmed but not harm others", which is the gist I took from your post(please correct me if I'm wrong), since he openly advocated for war with Pakistan and said that the Jews should commit mass suicide to protest the Holocaust. Not exactly a sterling example of non-aggression, MLK was a much better one.
 
Pineal said:
Apparantly God said that to Jews, a later Jew, Jesus, gave his followers another message. Other people have heard other things from what was or what they thought was God. Christians are pretty free to decide themselves given the mixed messages in the OT and NT.
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Those Jews were the Hebrews of Egypt. If you are going to be repressed either die or fight back. What life is a life of slavery?
 
Knowledge91 said:
Those Jews were the Hebrews of Egypt. If you are going to be repressed either die or fight back. What life is a life of slavery?
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In this context what I think about how one should respond is not relevent. The Bible presents a very unclear overall picture about how to respond to violence. The NT and the OT are an uneasy fit.
 
Arioch said:
@Pineal --

Just a bit of semantics here but Gandhi isn't really the best example of pacifism as "willing to be harmed but not harm others", which is the gist I took from your post(please correct me if I'm wrong), since he openly advocated for war with Pakistan and said that the Jews should commit mass suicide to protest the Holocaust. Not exactly a sterling example of non-aggression, MLK was a much better one.
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Your gist taking was spot on. I could be wrong about Ghandi. At one point he went on a hunger strike in response to violence between Muslims and Hindus, so I am surprised to hear he later advocated war. In fact I am not fond of Ghandi for issues not directly relevent to this issue, but I thought he was consistent on this one. Can you link me?
 
Pineal said:
In this context what I think about how one should respond is not relevent. The Bible presents a very unclear overall picture about how to respond to violence. The NT and the OT are an uneasy fit.
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If the bible is not clear, then let me, if you are struck, if it is your will to strike back then do so with confidence, if it is not then don't, but stand tall and look the man in the eye before you walk away.
 
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