You are describing a martyr then.
Does free will exist?
- Thread starter Arioch
- Start date
You are describing a martyr then.
So now you advocate going against what you see as the word of your God, when he supposedly said "Eye for an Eye"?
Interesting change of tack for you. :shrug:
Doesn't really help answer the question of this thread, though, does it?
he doesn't speak for all of us..
this is the the one who gives the rest of us a bad name..
And other theists would say that about you and some other theists.
you will have to link those references as i am unfamiliar with them.
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i am sure of it..
but i think it has to do with motivation..and the desire to have ppl follow a specific religion.
I will argue God over religion any day..
yes i know..my knowledge about God comes from a christian perspective,nobody is perfect..
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek, it makes no difference.
exactly, I don't deny this. The bible wasn't written by God. The Father will help he understand the knowledge I need to stay on my path.
Any actual support for these claims?
Free will is something that is developed, since we are not born with free will. We are born with instinctive bias and then conditioned by culture into other forms of habits and bias. One needs to work to overcome all forms of unconsciousness to develop free will. Developing free will does not mean one have free will in all aspects of every choice, but one can develop free will within a range of choices.
Free will, contains the word free, because it implies free will, relative to any given choice, has no subjective cost. If you like A more than B, you can not freely chose either, since there is a cost and benefit built into that equation. You will still have will power, and can chose B, but there will be a subjective price to pay. It is not free will.
The development of free will implies lowering the subjective cost and benefits of your unconscious choices. This often happens naturally through extended use. For example, when a new tech gadget appears on the market, it hard to have free will, since the subjective market appeal is very strong. We can use our will power not buy the gadget right away, but there is a subjective sense of being left out of the excitemnt. This is not free will because of this hidden cost. But after we use the gadget and get bored with it, our free will starts to appear. We may pick it up only every now and then and get bored of it just as fast; minimal cost/benefits. But that is only one of thousands of choices subject to free will. The next gadget starts the loss of free will again as unconsciousness is activated.
Since the cost/benefits that prevent free will are subjective, to achieve free will you need to address individual, collective and instinctive unconsciousness. You can deal with this unconsciousness piece meal, one choice at a time, or you can deal with it in bulk.
Free will, contains the word free, because it implies free will, relative to any given choice, has no subjective cost. If you like A more than B, you can not freely chose either, since there is a cost and benefit built into that equation. You will still have will power, and can chose B, but there will be a subjective price to pay. It is not free will.
The development of free will implies lowering the subjective cost and benefits of your unconscious choices. This often happens naturally through extended use. For example, when a new tech gadget appears on the market, it hard to have free will, since the subjective market appeal is very strong. We can use our will power not buy the gadget right away, but there is a subjective sense of being left out of the excitemnt. This is not free will because of this hidden cost. But after we use the gadget and get bored with it, our free will starts to appear. We may pick it up only every now and then and get bored of it just as fast; minimal cost/benefits. But that is only one of thousands of choices subject to free will. The next gadget starts the loss of free will again as unconsciousness is activated.
Since the cost/benefits that prevent free will are subjective, to achieve free will you need to address individual, collective and instinctive unconsciousness. You can deal with this unconsciousness piece meal, one choice at a time, or you can deal with it in bulk.
if you get too esoteric, then you forget reality along with it.
when you go to an ice cream shop and there are multiple choices to choose from, you do have the free will to choose from those options.
so yes, people do have free will in context. obviously, some have more free will than others depending on their abilities, circumstances and even depending on country where they reside in regard to types and degrees of freedom.
yeah. it's called using some common sense. that is if one has it, which you may not.
oh really? are we going to really get this inane?
so are we really going to say that there is no free will because one may prefer chocolate out of all the flavors so that is one one will choose, so therefore one has no free will?
that is absolutely stupid. you still have the choice to try different ones if one is curious. if one isn't, that is still their choice to not choose another.
if there were no other choices, then one wouldn't have a choice to exercise their free will. so again, people have free will in context and to certain degrees.
what you are describing is unrealistic and saying that chaos with no inherent repercussions, rhyme or reason is the basis of free will.
it is also dependent on how you define free will. freedom is relative but that doesn't mean one doesn't have free will but it's not absolute. and if it was there would be no reason for free will in the first place. free will is based on intent given choices/options for a desired result.
an example of lack of free will in context is one who is under some type of bondage be it physical or mental/emotional or both. for instance, a person may try drugs which was exercising "free will" with perhaps ignorant of the repercussions and got hooked. even though their true self or will does not want to choose drugs, they are not able to exercise their will in some cases because the addiction is stronger. this all depends on the individual and their makeup. so we can see that 'free' will is not always positive either, when one is not fully aware of it's consequences or does not heed it. naivety or ignorance can actually put one in further bondage where there have less free will.
also, people who are in literal bondage or limited by circumstances or others "against" their will to choose otherwise.
also, people who are in literal bondage or limited by circumstances or others "against" their will to choose otherwise.
Still clueless I see.
i know exactly what the hell i'm talking about.
you just like to argue just to hear yourself chatter.