So you missed the MCbs condemnation of this then?
Did Mohammad sin???
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
So you missed the MCbs condemnation of this then?
Do you beleif that Muslims in Islamic societies in general have higher morals than non-Muslims living within the same society?
What about when compared with other societies? Take the average Tibetian Buddhist and compare them to the average person in your town, do you really think you have attained more harmony and higher morals?
Just to be 100% sure you and I are on the same page, would you mind getting the text of the passages yourself and quoting them along with a link?
Funny how you rely on a parenthesis to make your point because when a verse addresses the Holy Prophet ot uses his name or station. Anyway, this verse was revelaed after the treaty of Hubaibiya. The word that is used here signifies human weakness, not a sin. Whenever in the Quran the Prophet is promised victories he is enjoined to seek protection and forgiveness for his human weaknesses that may be stand in the way of spreading Islam. There are 4 words which have a similar connotation. The word used here has none of the sinister meaning that is applied to the other 3 words. If with this verse the Holy Prophets was declared to be sinful it would have used the other, more sinister words.
Also, relying on Western Islamic scholars is a mistake because they have nowhere near as well a knowledge of Arabic and Quranic idiom as they should. In the Quranic idiom for example, if we take the owrd used here to mean sin would mean the sins attirbuted to thee or alleged to have been committed by thee or the sins comitted against thee.
Furthermore, in the verse 5:30 where a similar word is used the meaning is the sin committed against me. So in the conext of this verse we see that, after the Treaty, all the lies and sins that were attributed to the prophet would be proven to be false because Allah would protect him from those. Moreover, the conext of this verse supports the above explanation because what is granted, a victory, has no relevance to any of it if this was meant to be sin.
If i do that its my ticket to a oneway ban
ive done that before and a mod has accused me of preaching, warned me and deleted my posts. I dont want to fight with any mod because I myself am one on certain forums. I will stand firm hough when it goes too far.
Last edited:
I may have responded faster, but I had to wait for half-time.
So I should define sin by your moral code? Or Muhammad’s own moral code? If my moral code says it is OK for me to kill someone stealing my car, do you mind? Nobody violates his own personal moral code. And my moral code is not the same as yours.
Are you concerned that because you have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit that you could never be a Christian? That’s something I can help with, but that is a separate discussion.
Michael, after doing a bit more reading and viewing multiple translations, I'm inclined to believe that the verse isn't meant to imply sin. The same with other verses mentioned in the link I posted in post 3.
Now I'm more interested in anything from the Quran that actively supports the idea that Muhammad was sinless.
You wouldnt be able to write something like the Quran.
Because they are too stupid to read and if they can read they are too stupid to understand? What about the majority of people that dont find verses to justify killing of inncocent people?
If i do that its my ticket to a oneway ban
No, it's not. Notice that I posted the passages you referenced earlier. As long as they're relevant to the discussion, they should be fine. If anything, assuming what you post directly supports your claims, and you did get banned, I would try to get in touch with whoever it is that banned you to clear up any misunderstanding.
Hi Arsalan,
What is the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community? Is this considered a reform movement? Are it's members mainly in the West, or the Middle East?
Thx.
The Ahmadis believe that the Promised Messiah and Mahdi is not Jesus who will physically descend from the heavens. We also dont believe that he died on the cross or was lifted up to heaven. Ahmadis believe that the Promised Messiah and Mahdi has already come and he was someone from the Ummah of the Holy Prophet instead of an Israelite Prophet.. The website has a lot of useful information on the Ahmadis
Check it out id sayWhat is an innocent person? Non-believers are cursed by Allah; they will forever burn in Hell. They are the enemies of Allah and seek to destroy Islam. They must be subjugated if they do not learn to believe Allah, His Messenger (PBUH) and the End-of-Times.
The Ahmadis believe that the Promised Messiah and Mahdi is not Jesus who will physically descend from the heavens. We also dont believe that he died on the cross or was lifted up to heaven. Ahmadis believe that the Promised Messiah and Mahdi has already come and he was someone from the Ummah of the Holy Prophet instead of an Israelite Prophet.. The website has a lot of useful information on the Ahmadis
But Jesus does come at the End of Time, after the Mahdi. You are saying the Mahdi has already come? What of the End of Times?
Fortunately the Quran does not suppor your stance.
And thats the big difference between us and other Muslims. Let me make it clearer: there is a person who is, lets say, 20 years old. A new baby is born who lives several years and dies but the person of 20 doesnt die. Now who has outlived who? According to your pov about Jesus and Muhammad the baby outlived the person who was 20. It makes no sense.
Jesus was human and died, but not on the cross. He wont be descending physically from heaven or anywhere else. An Israelite Prophet is not the Messiah and Mahdi of the Muslims.
Who says? The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community? I can obviously quote extensively from the Qur'an exactly this, and many Muslims do quote these to justify their actions. How do the Ahmadiyyas rationalize otherwise?
haa! That's OKI may have responded faster, but I had to wait for half-time.
You will live by your moral code regardless.
No no not at all. I simply lack a beleif in Gods and Goddesses. Don't get me wrong, I used to beleive in God I was raised Xian. I suppose according to some beleif I will go to heaven other say I will burn forever in hell and yet others suggest I will be reborn again as someone new.
BUT, if I were to be religious I'd probably pick something like Greek pantheon or probably better would be Falun Gong - good stretches and I like to stretch
That Jesus didn't die on the cross all Muslims believe, nothing different here. But that the Mahdi has already come? First I've heard of it. Better tell Ahmadinejad because he constantly refers to the Mahdi's return.
I'm willing to listen to what you have to say but these beliefs are much different than I have been taught. I can't imagine they are shared by many Muslims.
Ahmadinejad is a Shia as far as i can recall and they imply Hadhrat Ali is God and that the Quran was revealed to Hadhrat Ali. If you think they are right then thats your choice A lot of Muslims are waiting for jesus to physycally descend from heaven. Just like the Jews were waiting for the physical descent of Elias iirc. But like I said, cehck out the articles and books on the site. They are far better than me at explaining stuff.
A lot of Muslims are waiting for jesus to physycally descend from heaven. Just like the Jews were waiting for the physical descent of Elias iirc. But like I said, cehck out the articles and books on the site. They are far better than me at explaining stuff.