Developing Telepathy

[Light]

Still, I haven't the slightest idea what you mean with "human energy".

Hello Mouse,

He's talking about some kind of imaginary "energy." He even had to resort to pure fiction in order to explain it as being like the force field that surrounds the Starship Enterprise. :bugeye: Pretty sad for someone who claims to person of science and truth.

I still say he should donate his brain to science - now - so that they can study it for it's defects. At least in that way it might produce something useful after all.

 

[Ophiolite]

asking questions is not insulting. i have never said that.

But you said this:

most of your posts including the above contain insluts (sic),

And you said it in response to a post of mine that contained only questions. Thus you were clearly stating that my questions were insulting. Yet a couple of posts later you completely deny ever having said such a thing. I trust you see the contradiction.

For someone who goes around falsely accusing others of lying, you have a suprisingly self righteous, one might almost say smug, attitude.

 

[ellion]

there is no contradiction there at all, a question can contain an insult.
that does not mean all questions contain insults. therefore asking questions does not equate to being insulting.
i have never said that asking questions is being insulting

this is a failure to accuratley identify reality. i can handle that.

what is it you are trying to achieve here, now with me? what are the aims of this communication for you?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I understood mouse's reply. I felt he understood my question and purposefully dodged it.

In this case, I think you both understood the reply and only one of you understood the question.

Why do I have to prove it? You have your own body right there. You can prove it to yourself if you would take 5 minutes.

The next time you go talk to someone. Stand there and talk to them for 5 minutes. At the end of the 5 minutes, slowly begin to inch towards them. Don't be obvious. Do it slowly. At some point they will begin to move back. You have penetrated their energy field. They are not comfortable with that so they move back.

This is not evidence for an energy field, this is evidence that people don't like to be in close quarters. Your observation is correct... your conclusion is completely ludicrous. Again, please provide evidence that 'spiritual energy' exists.

I think I have heard psychologists call this effect "entering someone's personal space". I don't know about you, but personal space is not a scientific term I ever heard. That is like describing some compound as purple instead of giving the chemical formula.

What is personal space? Personal space is a phrase people who refuse to use the word energy invented, so they could talk about energy and it's effects without admitting it is energy.

You are just fooling yourself with this junk about personal space. Human beings have an energy field surrounding them just like the Star Trek Enterprise has an energy field surrounding it.

'Personal Space' is a pop phrase. People feel threatened, restricted, and obligated (physically, sexually, etc.) when other people are spatially too close to them. It has everything to do with human psychology.

I agree that humans emit energy... heat, electromagnetism, kinetic, etc. There is no evidence to suggest a 'spiritual energy' exists and I am opening the door for you to offer evidence that it exists. The starship enterprise doesn't exist and doesn't have an 'energy field' as a result. It's a fictitous construct that is used in television and movies and people watch it because it's fantasy entertainment.

 

[Happeh]

Still, I haven't the slightest idea what you mean with "human energy".

Human beings produce energy as I said. It can form a field around them like the shields of the Star Trek Enterprise. It can reach out and affect other people like a phaser or a tractor beam. Not those exact functions. The visual image of something reaching out to do some kind of action.

Well, look here (links to Wikipedia).

Why did you make me look at that? Why not your own words. It says the ability to do work. That is what I said basically. The ability to reach out and cause some change.

Ah, there is the beauty of it. Crunchy Cat understood what I meant, and I'm guessing we are not living in the same country. Or perhaps not even the same continent, for that matter. But somewhere during his education the notion of energy was explained (in English, I assume), and it happened to be very similar to what a teacher explained to me (in Dutch). That's not a coincidence. In science there is a consensus of what that word means. Either you apply that, and I may understand you, or you do not, and I'd have great difficulty following you.

What you are saying is "do it my way or the highway. I am not willing to work with you to see if we can iron out the communication problem".

If you feel more comfortable in Dutch or German, go right ahead. French might be possible too, but I'll need to find a good online dictionary first. In this case, it wouldn't help though. The word energy in all those languages would refer to the same concept, if one uses it in a scientific context.

I only used foreign languages as an example you would understand. I feared that if I tried to tell you about different groups of people using words in a different context, you would not understand. If I said to you that hippies use the word energy, I thought you would immediately hear hippies and reject.

Hippies use the word energy. What do they mean? Why do they say that? Is it your position that you don't care? They are simply stupid and make things up for no reason? That makes no sense. Everybody has a reason for everything. If you do not understand it, that is because you do not understand, not because what they are doing or saying has no meaning to them.

I would like to hear in your own words why humans do not have energy, and why the effects of that test I described, which you conveniently did not address, can not be described in terms of interacting energy fields.

If you say "Because my gods, the authorities, told me so", you are telling me you are not an independent being capable of your own independent thought.

 

[Happeh]

Hello Mouse,

He's talking about some kind of imaginary "energy." He even had to resort to pure fiction in order to explain it as being like the force field that surrounds the Starship Enterprise. :bugeye: Pretty sad for someone who claims to person of science and truth.

I still say he should donate his brain to science - now - so that they can study it for it's defects. At least in that way it might produce something useful after all.

The retired psychologist has been reduced to this? Couldn't have been very skilled when he was practicing. The next door neighbor's 13 year old could have said this.

 

[Happeh]

This is not evidence for an energy field,

Why not? You cannot make this assertion without proof anymore than you say I cannot make the assertion there is energy without proof.

this is evidence that people don't like to be in close quarters.

Is that your science? "People don't like close quarters". What kind of science is that? That is some general observation my 90 year old grandmother could make. It does not take a scientist to say that.

Prove that it is not because of an energy field. You cannot. So if we are having a friendly discussion, with give and take between both sides, we can talk about how there is an energy field. The actions of the people involved EXACTLY mimic how they would behave if there was an energy field around someone.

Try it. Get 2 hoola hoops. Have two people hold them. Have one person walk towards the other. When the hoola hoop of the approaching person hits the stationary person, the stationary person moves backwards because of the pressure of the hoola hoop.

Replace the hoola hoops with an energy field. Have one person approach the other. At some unspecified distance, the stationary person moves away from the approaching person. Just as if there was an imaginary hoola hoop that was pressing the person away.

But your superior intellect has a problem with that simple experiment using a childs toy. Your superior intellect ignores the completely obvious physical reactions to what is described above. Your superior intellect says all of that is meaningless because the real scientific answer for the phenomenon above is "People don't like to be close to each other".

Don't you feel like an ignoramus maintaining that claim?

Your observation is correct... your conclusion is completely ludicrous. Again, please provide evidence that 'spiritual energy' exists.

Keep repeating it like a mantra. It will protect you from learning the truth about life. It doesn't affect me. I don't play submission and dominance games. You can insist all you want that you are right. I believe in the truth, not the loudest braying person in the room.

 

[Ophiolite]

what are the aims of this communication for you?

I am waiting for you to retract your unwarranted accusation that I am a liar.

 

[(Q)]

Human beings produce energy as I said. It can form a field around them like the shields of the Star Trek Enterprise.

So, if I fired a Photon Torpedo at you, would it bounce off?

Replace the hoola hoops with an energy field. Have one person approach the other. At some unspecified distance, the stationary person moves away from the approaching person. Just as if there was an imaginary hoola hoop that was pressing the person away.

Don't you feel like an ignoramus maintaining that claim?

How DOES an ignoramus feel?

 

[duendy]

yeah (Q), please tell us, how DOES an ignoramous feel?? ( que ZOOM to (Q)!)

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Why not? You cannot make this assertion without proof anymore than you say I cannot make the assertion there is energy without proof.

It's well established what energy is and the assertion about 'spiritual energy' (an 'exotic' form of energy) has no definition or testable predictions associated with it.

Is that your science? "People don't like close quarters". What kind of science is that? That is some general observation my 90 year old grandmother could make. It does not take a scientist to say that.

It's human psychology. People are emotional creatures (a result of biological evolution) and have very predictable responses to emotional stimulus.

Prove that it is not because of an energy field. You cannot. So if we are having a friendly discussion, with give and take between both sides, we can talk about how there is an energy field. The actions of the people involved EXACTLY mimic how they would behave if there was an energy field around someone.

That's not how logic works. You can't disprove an assertion. You can prove it or contradict it. The scenario that you had outlined could easily show a contradiction. Blindfold the target person and introduce some non-living actors into the personal space scene. I predict the outcome would be the target feels uncomefortable with 'percieved' people invading his personal space. Of course I could offer the obvious contradiction of E=MC^2 and that no new forms of E have been observed.

Try it. Get 2 hoola hoops. Have two people hold them. Have one person walk towards the other. When the hoola hoop of the approaching person hits the stationary person, the stationary person moves backwards because of the pressure of the hoola hoop.

That's one potential outcome and reason for the outcome. There are other reasons and other outcomes as well.

Replace the hoola hoops with an energy field. Have one person approach the other. At some unspecified distance, the stationary person moves away from the approaching person. Just as if there was an imaginary hoola hoop that was pressing the person away.

The hoola hoop can't be replaced by something which hasn't been shown to exist.

But your superior intellect has a problem with that simple experiment using a childs toy. Your superior intellect ignores the completely obvious physical reactions to what is described above. Your superior intellect says all of that is meaningless because the real scientific answer for the phenomenon above is "People don't like to be close to each other".

Don't you feel like an ignoramus maintaining that claim?

The childs toy experiment is fine. I agree that the predicted outcome and reason for the outcome are a possibility. I also recognize that there are other outcomes and reasons as well.

And to answer the question... my claim that "People don't like close quarters" is something that doesn't make me feel anything. It is simplistic and doesn't cover cases like intamacy (where people want close quarters); however, it does represent the reality of human psychology. You are welcome to provide contradictory evidence.

Keep repeating it like a mantra. It will protect you from learning the truth about life. It doesn't affect me. I don't play submission and dominance games. You can insist all you want that you are right. I believe in the truth, not the loudest braying person in the room.

The 'mantra' protects me from having to 'unlearn' falsity and does a better job of aligning my understanding to reality.

In reading this thread, I see repeated emotional reaction in your responses (the whole submission / dominance thing being a recent example) and I predict that how you feel is clouding the sight of some very simple truths:

* You have claimed (directly or indirectly) that 'telepathy' and 'spiritual energy' exist.

* Everyone on this board ultimately wants to give you the opportunity to support the claim with evidence. None has been provided so far and I suspect there may be a difference in understanding what evidence is in relationship to a claim.

* I have personally issued an offer (at least twice) to help you support the claim and I offered a track record of conducting experiments in a positive environment with other 'PSI' members on this forum -remotely and in person- (Quantum Quack even showed a recent example). I've offered references, a track record, and they appear to have been ignored.

Right now, my personal opinion is that 'belief' has really done some damage to your thought processes and this has led to self-chosen delusion. This thread is chalk full of evidence supporting this; however, I can and will suspend judgment if you commit actually cooperating and providing evidence for the claims. It would go a long way towards re-establishing your credibility (even if a committment leads to non-supportive results). I am sure that anyone here would also offer the path of recalling the original claims and simply stating something to the effect of "I've encountered some unusual phenomenoa and this is what happened". At the very least this gets personal experience out into the open and doesn't commit you to a fantastic conclusion.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

yeah (Q), please tell us, how DOES an ignoramous feel?? ( que ZOOM to (Q)!)

That was actually pretty funny; although, comedy aside Q's point was quite valid.

 

[leopold]

ever notice that happeh explains things in terms children would understand?
there are only a few conclusions that can be drawn from that

 

[SkinWalker]

This is not evidence for an energy field,

Why not? You cannot make this assertion without proof anymore than you say I cannot make the assertion there is energy without proof.

You're saying he can't make the assertion that there is no evidence for a [spiritual] energy field because there's no proof there's no evidence? The full context of the paragraphy Crunchy Cat's quote was from is that there is no evidence for a spiritual energy field. If there is, please share it with us. Indeed, what is this "energy" comprised of? How is it measured.

The experiment you suggest is one of "personal space," nothing more.

Is that your science? "People don't like close quarters". What kind of science is that? That is some general observation my 90 year old grandmother could make. It does not take a scientist to say that.

Had you bothered to do even a casual literature review, it wouldn't appear that you were so ignorant. I cited but two primary sources of the many, many available on the subject (Eaton et al 1998; Aiello 1987)

Prove that it is not because of an energy field. You cannot.

Other than the fact that the burdon of proof lies only with the claimant, there simply is no reason to believe so. Eaton et al (1998) demonstrated that visually impaired subjects did not react to proximity. Other studies have likewise concluded that if the subjects don't know other people are there through visual or auditory senses, they don't have personal space preferences. That clearly indicates that it isn't the metaphysical or supernatural at work, rather it is the natural senses and personal biases. The Eaton study as well as Aiello demonstrated that younger subjects, not influenced by cultural biases learned over time, exhibited markedly less personal space preferences.

The notion that there is some 'spiritual' energy is poppycock since it is without evidence. Just saying it exists doesn't make it so.

So if we are having a friendly discussion, with give and take between both sides, we can talk about how there is an energy field. The actions of the people involved EXACTLY mimic how they would behave if there was an energy field around someone.

No, the actions of people involved exactly mimic how they would behave knowing there was someone in close proximity to them. Take away this knowledge via visual and auditory deprivation, you you have no proximity issues between people.

Your superior intellect says all of that is meaningless because the real scientific answer for the phenomenon above is "People don't like to be close to each other".

I'd say Crunchy Cat's superior intellect is spot on. The science supports it.

Don't you feel like an ignoramus maintaining that claim?

Claims made with supporting evidence rarely make one feel ignorant. Ironically, it is apparent by your continued wild and unsupported claims that those made without evidence don't even supply one with a feeling of shame much less ignorance. Though, the ignorance is clear to all with an education and the ability to think rationally and critically.



References:

Aiello, John R. (1987) "Human Spatial Behavior." In D. Stokols and I. Altman (ed.), Handbook of Environmental Psychology, Vol. 1, New York: John
Wiley and Sons

Evans, Gary W.; Lepore, Stephen J.; Allen, Karen Mata.(2000) Cross-Cultural Differences in Tolerance for Crowding: Fact or Fiction? Journal of Personality & Social Psychology, 79(2), 204-210

 

[Ophiolite]

It is simplistic and doesn't cover cases like intamacy (where people want close quarters); .

HappyDaze would not be familiar with this particular aspect of interpersonal relationships. It has been clearly established that close, intimate contact, with a member of the opposite sex can lead, ultimately, to masturbation and a lop-sided view of the world. Indeed, in extreme case it may lead to outbreaks of dancing.

 

[(Q)]

yeah (Q), please tell us, how DOES an ignoramous feel?? ( que ZOOM to (Q)!)

*looks awkwardly at incoming camera*

Well, they kinda feel soft and squishy, like a gel filled marshmallow. Probably a result of cerebral atrophy and TV dinners.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

hehe

 

[leopold]

ellion
what's your experience with telepathy
and if you experienced it why don't you believe?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Hippies use the word energy. What do they mean? Why do they say that? Is it your position that you don't care? They are simply stupid and make things up for no reason? That makes no sense. Everybody has a reason for everything. If you do not understand it, that is because you do not understand, not because what they are doing or saying has no meaning to them.

Oh wow man, like can you feel those positive vibes? Most of the time hippies are using energy to describe emotional euphoria that is intensified with recreational drugs.

You can see the same in teams of employees sometimes. They are close-knit, have a gung ho attitutde, and will encourage / be loyal to each other to the very end.

It's emotional perception and human behavior. Positive emotion that is reinforced can feel great and it doesn't even remotely suggest the existence of 'spiritual energy'.

 

[mouse]

He's talking about some kind of imaginary "energy." He even had to resort to pure fiction in order to explain it as being like the force field that surrounds the Starship Enterprise.

It's the kind of thing you see in some forms of anime too... as you mentioned, probably he just wants it to be true very very badly.