Developing Telepathy

duendy said:
do you ever get the feelin your floggin a dead horse?.....but what keeps ME goin is
is i feeel why the fuk shouldthese pathological skeptics tak over these forums. manypeople read here, andi feel that your presence, passion, and effort encourages others to be bold ad not be oppressed by the rusty old mscientific fundamentalism
This site is worse than many, as on others, the mods wouldnt let these small 'minded' ... people ..hijack threads all over the place. They would have been tossed a long time ago. Yes, I'm about done with this site. Everytime a conversation shows potential, the 'creatively challenged' clueless patrol shouts it down and keeps shouting till the thread dies. The 'dead' love the company! Not pathological? Hahaha.. Yes, it is sad..
Good luck...
 
nameless said:
This site is worse than many, as on others, the mods wouldnt let these small 'minded' ... people ..hijack threads all over the place. They would have been tossed a long time ago. Yes, I'm about done with this site. Everytime a conversation shows potential, the 'creatively challenged' clueless patrol shouts it down and keeps shouting till the thread dies. The 'dead' love the company! Not pathological? Hahaha.. Yes, it is sad..
Good luck...
NO nameless...tke 5.....i dont agree ewith you about thenFORUMS. i can honestly say they ar THE freeest i have ever been with and i incude forums that supposedly were open tp all forms of exploraton about psychedelics etc. oneplace the Lycaeum....jeeesus. for a kick off you have to write an essay to be accepted---how friggin middle class is that???. then hen yo get in IF you happen to wax lyrical you most likely would get one of he 'guru-moderators' on yourcase---a kindof psychedliec-user ultra mechanist--demadning sources, evidence. ten othes would come sniffin blood. horrenous place. and such oppresive moderation creates n Uncreative climate of fear

the beauty of thisplace Is its freedom. for ewxample, say a thread gets hot. obviously when your talkin about cntroversial issues theer is gonna be some friction right. at some oter forums.lsomeone might go 'boo' and up posps tis little-hitler modertator with his red ink type patronizingly tell whomever off. tis of course diffuses te passon and creats a bland conformist environment
tese places are like micro worlds which refewlct te world. so we can gauge behavours an patterns here.

so i encourafge yo to not judge here too harshly and treasure even the 'patlogical skepics' teir FREEDOm to shout'woo woo' 'crackpot' etc.......and remember nameless that even to someimes ya might not feel you gettin tru. tat we aren't just conscious beings but have unconscios depth, and it is wise to not just talk t te conscious mind--iof u get me. you are also maybe connecting wit teir deeper parts with whart you say. to tey'd rather die than admit to hving a deeper part probs.l...Q anyway, i realy value you your presence here
 
i agree with you there duendy. i also value your presence here nameless just as much as everybody elses, i try hard not to like people like ohiolite and light but i cant help love them for the challenge they present and the insight int the human mind they provide. the fact people dont agree with us is, as duendy said a magnifecent reflection of of the real world. a reflection that should be treasured and never buried.

the fact that people can call me a deluded woo woo and i can call them fucking liars just makes it that much more real, fun and interesting.
 
nameless said:
This site is worse than many, as on others, the mods wouldnt let these small 'minded' ... people ..hijack threads all over the place. They would have been tossed a long time ago. Yes, I'm about done with this site. Everytime a conversation shows potential, the 'creatively challenged' clueless patrol shouts it down and keeps shouting till the thread dies. The 'dead' love the company! Not pathological? Hahaha.. Yes, it is sad..
Good luck...

Right! In case you hadn't noticed, the topic of this tread was dealing with telepathy. So, instead of posting something about that, you go and post your silly "pathological" tripe and then accuse others of hijacking! How typical.

And when your imaginary dreamworld runs up against facts you react just like a kid with his hand in a cookie jar caught by an adult.

You are more than welcome to leave and hide. Perhaps you'll come back when you grow up and we can continue trying to explore why only small minds seem to believe in telepathy.
 
ellion said:
and your mind? hardly a blinding light is it?

I've never made the claim of being a genius. Just something better than average and far better than many of the little twerps that appear here from time to time. :D

What about you? ;)
 
Nameless was so kind as to post a link in the "Developing Telepathy" thread to a site that has a page which boasts itself to be the "symptoms of pathological skepticism."

The page begins with "hostility" that the so-called "mainstream scientific community" reacts with when faced with supernatural, metaphysical, or pseudoscience claims. Apparently, the woo-woo's were upset even in 1996 (this is the alleged copyright date of the page) when skeptics questioned their nonsense.

First, I'll get a few conventions out of the way. "Woo-woo" in this post will likely be familiar to everyone and perhaps understood. But I use it in the following context: someone who draws attention to wild claims of the paranormal or metaphysical in the way a train whistle draws attention to a train approaching a crossing. "Woo-woo" is the sound of the whistle, but in the case of the pseudoscience claimant, the train hasn't even left the station. Skepticism refers to the thoughtful and reflective inquiry, particularly with regard to wild claims and speculations. Skeptic comes from the Greek "skeptikos," which translates to "thoughtful." The latin scepticus means "thoughtful" or "reflective." Skepticism, therefore, is not about being close minded, it's about being open minded. Also, "thinking out of the box" is fine. It's called brainstorming. In such modes, everything is a valid thought. But at the end of the day, when the thoughts are collected, only the ones that are testable can be kept. The rest must, necessarily, be discarded. This is the nature of the hypothesis.

Now, on to the "symptoms of pathological skepticism."

William J. Beaty, the apparent author of the page, charges that the "mainstream scientific community" reacts with emotion to nonsense like abductions by space aliens, cold fusion, psychic claims, etc. The first fallacy Beaty commits is his use of the term "mainstream scientific community." This would suggest that there exists a community of scientists who aren't "mainstream" in that they consider themselves "alternative." This just isn't so. There is no such thing as an alternative scientist. Either you understand and use the scientific method and its various procedures or you don't. If you don't, and you profess to be doing "science," you are a pseudoscientist. A fake scientist.

But regardless of what the scientific community is referred to as, emotional responses to wild, speculative claims that assert to be truths is warranted. Poor science is detrimental to society. The attempt by creationists to introduce religion into classrooms via the pseudoscience of 'intelligent design' is a prime example. Moreover, people are quite frequently scammed for money either through sales of pseudoscientific books (Dianetics, how-to books on junk like 'remote viewing,' etc.) or classes, or large-scale funding for bogus research (as was the case with cold fusion).

Emotional reactions, when they occur are completely warranted. But overall, Beaty didn't demonstrate that they are frequent; that these responses originate from the scientific community; or that they even occur at all. They do. We've all seen them. Some of us have even written some of them. But nearly always the emotion is directed toward the claim itself, and nearly always in the form of skeptical inquiry usually in the form of "where's the evidence? Where are the data?" In fact, most of the responses lack any emotion at all until the woo-woo begins a tautology of arguments that retreat into one another ultimately claiming the skeptic to be "close minded," a "pseudoskeptic," or some other equally indefinable and illogical derision. The first emotion seems nearly always to erupt from the woo-woo, but I provide no more data on the subject than Beaty.

Beaty admits that he is engaging in "intellectually dishonest reasoning," and "underhanded debating tactics" when he proposes a list of "symptoms of pathological skepticism" which he claims, unsuccessfully, are evidence of "irrational reasoning." Here's the list in full:

1. Belief that theories determine phenomena, rather than the reverse.

Anyone that thinks this way is not a skeptic nor a scientist. However, I have, indeed, read many a post and claim of various woo-woo's who make assertions based their speculations and acknowledge only that data that supports their claim while thoroughly ignoring any data that refutes it. Beaty offers a brief disclaimer that all of the examples he offers for each of the "symptoms" are artificial, but in this first "symptom," Beaty seems to focus on the rejection of pseudoscience by peer-review authorities or funding sources as an example. This doesn't follow, of course, since to obtain either, one must show more than simply a phenomenon, one must show a testable hypothesis and a well-designed research model.

2. Erecting barriers against new ideas by constantly altering the requirements for acceptance. (A practice called "moving the goalposts.")

Again, Beaty uses faulty examples. This practice would seem to appear only in the minds of the woo-woo. Evidence is, after all, evidence. Either it exists or it doesn't. Either there are supporting data or there aren't.

3. Belief that fundamental concepts in science rarely change, coupled with a "herd following" behavior where the individual changes his/her opinions when colleagues all do, all the while remaining blind to the fact that any opinions had ever changed.

Another typical objection by the average woo-woo. This argument is usually followed with the words "paradigm" and "shift" and, again, meaningless. All science is provisional. It is all open to revision. It isn't easy, nor should it be. Invariably the woo-woo with some education will mention Wegener and his theory of continental drift. But it is the rare woo-woo that will bother to mention (or even know) that part of Wegener's hypothesis was that gravity alone was the reason continents drifted, to which physicists responded with derision, and rightfully so. Wegener did not have a working theory or even an hypothesis for what the mechanism was that moved the continents. But the very fact that science eventually accepted Wegener's assertion is a positive testament to the reliability of science as a method. It's difficult for a new paradigm to be accepted, this is true. But if it weren't, our understanding of the universe would be completely muddled by nonsense and poppycock and the things that might have been accepted as fundamental truths in science. Evidence always wins out.

4. Belief that science is guided by consensus beliefs and majority rule, rather than by evidence. Indulging in behavior which reinforces the negative effects of consensus beliefs while minimizing the impact of any evidence which contradicts those beliefs.

Nonsense. Anyone that believes this is neither a skeptic nor a scientist. Scientific truths are not voted upon. This is a completely spurious claim by the author.

5. Adopting a prejudiced stance against a theory or an observed phenomena (sic) without first investigating the details, then using this as justification for refusing to investigate the details.

Again, this is bad science. I agree. But what the author doesn't point out is that there are many who are skeptical of nonsense claims of junk like 'telepathy' and 'esp' who have studied the available literature and are experienced in the nature of belief. Thus, the bias obtained by a skeptic against such claims is obtained legitimately: through education. This 'symptom,' like so many others here, cuts both ways. The woo-woo almost always has as bias for the claim regardless of the data. The skeptics main query is for the data; for the evidence. Yet questions of the open minded are refused, rejected, and the woo-woo responds only that the inquirer is close minded for daring to question the claim instead of simply accepting it at face value.

6. Maintaining an unshakable stance of hostile, intolerant skepticism, and when anyone complains of this, accusing them of paranoid delusion. Remaining blind to scientists' widespread practice of intellectual suppression of unorthodox findings, and to the practice of "expulsion of heretics" through secret, back-room accusations of deviance or insanity.

Fascinating that the author exhibits paranoia while charging that the skeptic unfairly accuses the woo-woo of being paranoid. "Intolerant skepticism" is an oxymoron. The term is spurious and doesn't exist (see the definition of skeptic above). Again, the skeptic is questioning the claim. A simple response with sufficient data or evidence and the questions are answered.


7. Ignoring the lessons of history, and therefore opening the way for repeating them again and again.

I fail to see what this has to do with skepticism. There are many lessons of history. The woo-woo will undoubtedly chose to ignore the ones of trickery and flim-flam created by charlatans and scam artists who made spurious claims of "science" in order to fleece the believers and the gullible from their money. The Cardiff Giant was a prime example of such flim-flam.

8. *Denial* of the lessons of history. An inability to admit that science has made serious mistakes in the past. Maintaining a belief that good ideas and discoveries are never accidentally suppressed by closed-mindedness, then revising history to fit this belief.

Again, this is irrelevant. Science has, indeed, made serious mistakes. Science, being a provisional set of disciplines, is self-correcting. Most of the mistakes of science were corrected by others in science. This is the obvious ranting of the woo-woo who is saying, "look, they make mistakes! They can't be trusted! But my drivel without evidence can!"

9. Using circular arguments to avoid accepting evidence which supports unusual discoveries, or to prevent publication of this evidence.

I thought this was supposed to be a list of symptoms deriding "science" not "pseudoscience." And, again, Beaty's examples were spurious and nonsensical. It appears to be the ranting of someone whose research design was severely flawed and is grumpy at not being accepted for publication because his methodology didn't pass muster. Poor him.

10. Accusing opponents of delusion, lying, or even financial fraud, where no evidence for fraud exists other than the supposed impossibility of evidence being presented.

If the woo-woo persists in making wild claims without showing even the least amount of testable evidence, then the obvious explanations equate to delusion or deception. Period. It's not as if people don't become deluded. This is a well-known human characteristic. Delusion doesn't automatically imply some mental health issue such as schizophrenia or bipolar, it simply means that hopes, desires, and belief have influenced one's ability to think critically (assuming such ability previously existed). Again, the author is overreacting in a telling manner.

11. Unwarranted confidence that the unknown is in the far distance, not staring us in the face.

This is a testament to the author's own ignorance and short-sightedness. I know of no scientist or skeptic that doesn't readily acknowledge that the unknown is readily present in some of the most basic aspects of our lives. Gravity is an example.

12. Belief that certain fields of science are complete, that scientific revolutions never happen, and that any further progress must occur only in brushing up the details.

I offer much the same answer as #11, Beaty obviously doesn't know any real scientists or skeptics.

13. Excusing the ridicule, trivialization, and the scorn which is directed at 'maverick' ideas and at anomalous evidence. Insisting that sneering and derisive emotional attacks constitute a desirable and properly scientific natural selection force.

Quite frankly, there are those for whom it is one's duty to offend and even ridicule. Those that make wild claims about silliness deserve to be called silly. But again, science is provisional and so is my skepticism. Show the evidence on the wild claim, and I revise my position. Its as easy as that.


14. Justifying any refusal to inspect evidence by claiming a "slippery slope." Using the necessary judicious allocation of time and funding as a weapon to prevent investigation of unusual, novel, or threatening ideas.

So the burden of proof lies with the one asking the questions of the claimant? Not likely. The skeptic is asking the questions. The evidence must be tested by the person making the claim. The problem is, there generally isn't any evidence to test. Take 'telepathy' for instance. I would love to examine the evidence. Contrary to what woo-woo's would think of me, I would love for 'telepathy' or 'esp' to be real. There just simply isn't any evidence to support this claim.

15. A blindness to phenomena which do not fit the current belief system, coupled with a denial that beliefs affect perceptions.

Again, is this a symptom of so-called 'pathological skepticism' or 'pathological woo-woos?" Phenomena are great. But when they can't even be demonstrated to be actual phenomena ('telepathy'), then we aren't discussing science, we're discussing fantasy. The woo-woo's posting that they "know" telepathy exists in this thread are living in a fantasy world. One of them even admits that he's reading fiction based on the subject. It's like those D&D nutters that kept living the game in their daily life, thinking that they're some kind of elf-warriors.

16. A belief that all scientific progress is made by small, safe, obvious steps, that widely-accepted theories are never overturned, and that no new discoveries come from anomalies observed.

Why would anyone believe that? This is the unfounded ranting of a disgruntled woo-woo. There are no scientists who believe such nonsense. Science comes in sudden, short leaps as well as slow, steady progress. But, again, it is evidence that defines the changes in paradigms and the acceptance of new theories

I only had time to go through the first 16 of these so-called symptoms. They speak more about woo-woos than skeptics though, this much is clear. Perhaps I'll get around to the rest later.
 
SkinWalker said:
Wow. You're reading a book. You do realize its fiction, right? Could this be the sort of thing that feeds an over-active imagination.

Why do you take this tone? Every work on this planet is produced by human beings. They based their stories on human actions, observations of humans and human legends. The book is a discussion of what could happen if there were publicly acknowledged telepaths. I presented the book as an example of a thoughtful person considering what might happen if there were publicly acknowledged telepaths.

You and people like you are the reason there are no publicly acknowledged telepaths. All I do is mention a book I read and you are insulting me. Just think if I actually stood up and declared I was a telepath. You would start frothing at the mouth in your need to attack me. Then there are another 1000 people just like you frothing at the mouth just like you.

It is common sense. If you would stop being so anxious to kill the idea, you could see how common sense all of this is.

SkinWalker said:
I said "ironic" because that's the same logic being applied to 'telepathy' by some of those posting here. There's a lot of talk about how it exists, but no evidence. And, like the WMDs, it will never be shown.

U say this like it supports your position. It supports my position. What is says is a small group of liars told everyone there were WMD and acted on it. All the lemmings believed this small group of people because they were trained to obey that small group of people.

Just like you are trained not to believe in telepathy by a small group of people in charge of the printing presses and scientific communities. This small group of people lies about telepathy, and you and everyone else believes it just like people beleived in WMD.

If you were as smart as you think you are, you should be able to see right thru the lies. Your constant support of the lies leaves me with no other conclusion than you are not as smart as you claim to be. If you are not smart, why would I pay any attention to your wrong opinions about telepathy?

SkinWalker said:
Authority is irrelevant. The only thing that need occur is a controlled experiment that demonstrates the existence of telepathy. An experiment that has the potential to be replicated.

You are impossible. You ignore what is said and keep repeating the same thing. Telepathy is subjective. There is no way to prove it to you unless you yourself are a telepath. Or your were open to paying attention to what is in your head and you actually listened to it. If you are not a telepath, a telepath can put thoughts in your head anyways.

SkinWalker said:
If it's such a secret and it's not for us, then why bitch and moan so loudly when the big, bad skeptic says, "I doubt it."

Kindness. Wanting to save a person from the awful state their life is in because of the adherence to a rigid way of thinking.

The future. Needing to reassure those that do believe or might believe that there are those like them. If people like you are allowed to speak unchallenged, you damage and ruin all the young people coming up who might be telepathic. If they believe you, they will go crazy from all the odd things that happen to them. If they believe me, they will feel OK because they believe telepathy exists so they will look at what happens to them in an accepting instead of a fearful way.

Truth. I got this personal thing with truth. If someone jumps up and says 2 + 2 = 3, I can't help myself. I have to correct them so they do not lead people astray. Even if there are 50 people ready to commit violence, I still feel the need to correct them. This planet is about humanity, not me or you or 50 people. I would rather sacrifice so lots of people got the truth and humanity benefited than let wrongheaded bullies make life miserable like it is in the current day.

It would have taken just a few congressmen to stand up and speak the truth about WMD etc to stop the Iraq war. Just a few to save those 10,000's of lives. But they thought of themselves only instead of all of humanity.
 
Light said:
Would you care to match wits with a true professional over the matter? If so, consider this an open invitation - and you had best bring along some intelligent help.

YOu shouldn't have said that. I can't stand challenges by wrongheaded people.

Bring it on. Just don't expect me to back off when you provide proof that a "majority" agrees with you. This is not a popularity contest. It is about what is and is not possible on this planet in the actions of human beings.
 
light said:
I've never made the claim of being a genius. Just something better than average and far better than many of the little twerps that appear here from time to time.

What about you?
what about me? this is a poor question to ask me.
i can answer that i am no better than any one else.
 
Happeh said:
YOu shouldn't have said that. I can't stand challenges by wrongheaded people.

Bring it on. Just don't expect me to back off when you provide proof that a "majority" agrees with you. This is not a popularity contest. It is about what is and is not possible on this planet in the actions of human beings.

Well, well - talk about awakening wrongheaded people. :D

I never proposed a "popularity contest" though I'm fairly sure that overall the intelligent would outnumber the woo-woos or else we'd all be sitting around chanting mantras in our caves and civilization could never have advanced.

If you understand what "invitation" really means you would have begun already. It means that you go first and I'll respond (if it's even worth the effort - how much real psychology do you actually know anyway?)
 
mouse said:
Could you give me the title of the book?

There are a whole bunch of them. The man is famous and rich from them. His name is Simon Green and the books are called the DeathStalker series. All 8 or so 600 page books deal with a future society in which telepaths are hunted down, murdered, or controlled and used as tools. Except for the esper liberation front that works for acceptance in normal human society.

mouse said:
Rumours? You base your argument on rumours? You do not agree with me that rumours are not the best source of reliable information?

The rumours themselves may not be worthwhile. But they lead you in the right direction. Police use rumors all the time to solve cases. Maybe the rumors are false, but they lead the police in the right direction.


mouse said:
Fine. Could you then please convince a few of those "right people" to give us the evidence we so desperately seek. They can do it in anonymity, of course, by the means of the sort of experiments earlier described.

You must be nuts! What you are asking me to do is tell you where you could find people that you, skinwalker, light and the rest could go and harrass. Why would I tell you the names or groups of people so you can go harrass them?

I am trying to impress on you that your worldview prevents you from finding out what you want to know. The people that could prove it to you would never speak to someone like you. You are too coarse and demanding. Don't get mad at me. That is what they think of people like you. You are a pestering dog that won't stop sniffing their leg.

One of the best ways to teach someone telepathy is to refuse to talk to them. If they are just playing, they will leave and go away. If they are interested, they will think and think and think about what is going on. Naturally, the telepaths could read your mind. They know if you are sincere in your urge to learn, or if you are a jerk looking for someone to hold up in front of the world and ridicule.

What you and the others refuse to accept is that these are people, not chemicals in an experiment. These people have feelings. They don't want to be berated and hounded by doubters and haters. These type of people are usually 100 times as sensitive as you to the emotions and thoughts of others. Over in another thread, Snakelord made me literally physically sick with his hate and demands. That is what happens to these kinds of people when they are the subject of hate or ridicule or derision or whatever.


mouse said:
Then why do you have such a difficulty giving valid arguments for its existence.

Because there are none. Telepathy is subjective. You experience it or you do not. You cannot see it from the outside. Be honest. Any kind of test would always leave you in doubt you had been tricked. The only real way to prove anything is for a person to prove it to themselves. I am trying to instruct people on how to prove it to themselves.

Stop doubting. Stop attacking people that bring up the subject. Try to be kind and trusting and likable. Walk around thinking about telepathy all the time. Pay attention to the thoughts in your head. If you can, spend lots of time alone. Instead of immediately rejecting the subjectof telepathy, do whatever you can to hold your mind open. Your doubts close your mind. A closed mind, by definition, cannot let anything in.

mouse said:
All that I want is some concrete evidence. Not a story of someone you know, not a legend, not a rumour, but something which is testable. If you, or any telepath is not up for it, that is perfectly fine. But do not expect me, or any one else for that matter, to take your claims seriously.

That is too bad. The only way to prove it is for someone to take a liking to you. Then they need to be willing to take a chance on helping you. That is the only way to give you what you want. As long as you tell everyone talking about telepathy they are nuts, I doubt anyone will take a liking to you and try to help you out.
 
Light said:
Well, well - talk about awakening wrongheaded people. :D

If you understand what "invitation" really means you would have begun already. It means that you go first and I'll respond (if it's even worth the effort - how much real psychology do you actually know anyway?)

Not much. I don't think it is prudent to learn the ideas of a coke addled drug fiend.

Sigmund Freud was a coke addled drug fiend. His theories apply to drug users, not regular people.

Almost every psychologist I have ever encountered uses what they learn to hurt other people. Psychology is poisonous in my opinion. The number of times it is used for bad outnumbers the times it is used for good 100 times at least.

Me go first? What is there to say. Telepathy exists. You say it does not. I base my ideas on real life experience. I would guess you do the same.

What does that tell us? One possiblity is that I am not a doubter or a hater. Because I kept my mind open, some person or the other was willing to demonstrate to me. You, being a doubter, have never experienced the kindness of someone showing you telepathy exists. Or, if they did, you wrote it off as being tired and wondering about the weird thoughts in your head.

As an educated man, how do you propose to attack what I tell you is a personal life experience? It is impossible. You were not there to witness what occurred. All you can really do is call me a liar. You can say I made up the experiences. That is not an argument or a rebuttal. It is you making a personal judgement of the kind of person I am. It would be you saying you know what was in my head years ago better than I did.

That is just plain silly. But I see people say that constantly. If I say, "There is telepathy. I experienced it". The reply is "No you didn't. It was your imagination".

The reply, though it is written as "No you didn't. It was your imagination" really boils down to "you are a liar or deluded". That is not a counter argument. That is personal attack.
 
allright lets clear this up
for all you telepaths please tell me what is on my desk my monitor is on.

happeh
you never said if the book was fiction or not.
 
happeh said:
The only real way to prove anything is for a person to prove it to themselves.
and this is what it means to know, and when you know something in this way it matters not at all what others think.
 
Happeh said:
Sigmund Freud was a coke addled drug fiend. His theories apply to drug users, not regular people.
Almost every psychologist I have ever encountered uses what they learn to hurt other people. Psychology is poisonous in my opinion.
You apparently don't even understand what psychology is. Can I suggest you do some googling and learn the difference between psychologists, psychiatrists and psycho-analysts. You might also want to look into the variety of psychologists that practice, in everything from education to advertising, politics to parenting, and policing to practically anything you care to name involving people.
 
Happeh said:
Why do you take this tone? Every work on this planet is produced by human beings. They based their stories on human actions, observations of humans and human legends. The book is a discussion of what could happen if there were publicly acknowledged telepaths. I presented the book as an example of a thoughtful person considering what might happen if there were publicly acknowledged telepaths.

A book invented in the imagination of one person.

Happeh said:
You and people like you are the reason there are no publicly acknowledged telepaths.

Or, the reason is that their simply are no telepaths. Its poppycock. Fantasy.

Happeh said:
U say this like it supports your position. It supports my position. What is says is a small group of liars told everyone there were WMD and acted on it. All the lemmings believed this small group of people because they were trained to obey that small group of people.

Ahh... but it does support my position. In this case, the "lemmings" are the misguided and undereducated who are believing in the fantasies of a small minority all-too willing to take advantage of their gullibility. Believing in the lie without any ounce of evidence.

Happeh said:
Just like you are trained not to believe in telepathy by a small group of people in charge of the printing presses and scientific communities.

That's where you are wrong. I'm trained to disregard 'telepathy' until such time as there is evidence to support the notion by an education in the sciences. Show the evidence, and my "belief" in this claim will come.

Happeh said:
This small group of people lies about telepathy, and you and everyone else believes it just like people beleived in WMD.

That's the example I was using. A small group of people tell lies about 'telepathy' ("i'm a telepath and you can be one too," etc.) and a bunch of lemmings buy into it because they want to believe it. Just like the WMDs.

Happeh said:
If you were as smart as you think you are, you should be able to see right thru the lies. Your constant support of the lies leaves me with no other conclusion than you are not as smart as you claim to be.

Ironically, that is the same comment I could easily make about you. The difference is, my position is provisional. I'm more than willing to accept 'telepathy' with the revelation of evidence.


Happeh said:
If you are not smart, why would I pay any attention to your wrong opinions about telepathy?

Ahh.. the mind of the woo-woo at work. Looking for the justifications to satisfy your biased conclusions of the world. I'm provisional. I'm willing to revise my position. You clearly are not.

Happeh said:
Telepathy is subjective. There is no way to prove it to you unless you yourself are a telepath.

And here is the retreat. One has to be a 'telepath' to be able to prove know 'telepathy.' Pure bunk. And a cowardly retreat at that. But if it were true, then why be so bold and forward with your claim that 'telepathy' is true? Why come to near tears when faced with the questions of skeptics who want to see the evidence? The kindness answer doesn't hold water since you've been anything but kind.

Happeh said:
Truth. I got this personal thing with truth. If someone jumps up and says 2 + 2 = 3, I can't help myself.

The irony is you are jumping up and claiming that very thing... and refusing to show the proof of the formula. You're full of poppycock.
 
Happeh said:
Not much. I don't think it is prudent to learn the ideas of a coke addled drug fiend.

Sigmund Freud was a coke addled drug fiend. His theories apply to drug users, not regular people.

Almost every psychologist I have ever encountered uses what they learn to hurt other people. Psychology is poisonous in my opinion. The number of times it is used for bad outnumbers the times it is used for good 100 times at least.

Freud isn't the only psychologist that ever lived and in fact, he pretty much limited everything he worked on in one specific area. And a fair amount of it has been discarded over time.

I can see that we have very different views of the subject. I see it as neutral; neither helping nor causing harm. For me, it's simply the scientific study of the human mind - how it works and why it malfunctions. I will not pretend to offer "cures" or therapies. My only interest is in the mind itself.

Me go first? What is there to say. Telepathy exists. You say it does not. I base my ideas on real life experience. I would guess you do the same.

What does that tell us? One possiblity is that I am not a doubter or a hater. Because I kept my mind open, some person or the other was willing to demonstrate to me. You, being a doubter, have never experienced the kindness of someone showing you telepathy exists. Or, if they did, you wrote it off as being tired and wondering about the weird thoughts in your head.

As an educated man, how do you propose to attack what I tell you is a personal life experience? It is impossible. You were not there to witness what occurred. All you can really do is call me a liar. You can say I made up the experiences. That is not an argument or a rebuttal. It is you making a personal judgement of the kind of person I am. It would be you saying you know what was in my head years ago better than I did.

That is just plain silly. But I see people say that constantly. If I say, "There is telepathy. I experienced it". The reply is "No you didn't. It was your imagination".

The reply, though it is written as "No you didn't. It was your imagination" really boils down to "you are a liar or deluded". That is not a counter argument. That is personal attack.

It seems to me that perhaps it is you that is narrow-minded. Yes, my position is that telepathy does not exist. However, having said that, I would be perfectly willing to change my position if someone could offer solid proof - evidence of some kind - of it's existence.

That's precisely how real science works. It was once held that the world was flat and square (the four-corners thing). Once evidence to the contrary was presented, that position changed. That's something that many non-scientific people seem to realize - science is a never-ending search for truth that constantly corrects it's former stance when it's proven to be wrong.

But to the consternation of folks of your opinion science does NOT accept anything blindly. Simply stating that something exists, or that you have personally experienced it, in no way establishes it as fact. And I cannot even begin to count the number of times that same principle has been patiently explained on this forum - but the "woo-woos" never seem to be able to understand it.

Why? Because it shatters their pet beliefs. If I were to tell you that there uncountable aliens from other worlds living among us and using us as a food supply, you would certainly ask me for proof - and rightly so. If I told you I was visited each night by angels that explained all the mysteries of the universe, you would again ask for proof - and again, rightly so.

So, no - science (nor I) will never simply "take your word" for anything.

That brings us to why you believe these things in the first place. I honestly don't know. Sometimes it IS the result of a delusion - a mental defect. Other times it might only be simple wishful thinking. Some would consider it comforting while others would consider it terrifying. The point is people believe things like this for their own reasons alone. Period.

There have been countless trials that have attempted to prove the existence of telepathy. And contrary to Duendy's claim of cold, harsh lab conditions, the exact opposite is the real truth because it has always been assumed that such things could only (or would best) happen under comfortable, friendly conditions. Science continues to make efforts to prove it's existence - but no evidence has yet been produced to support it.

So despite your claims that I am close-minded, the exact opposite is true; if you or anyone else provides proof, I will change my mind immediately.
 
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