Developing Telepathy

Happeh,

I'm not going to be tricked into a discussion about a world wide Israeli conspiracy controlling every news outlet. Although I firmly and passionately disagree with you, my arguments concerning it do not belong in this thread. If you want to discuss it, you can open another thread and I'll respond to it there.

Now, back to the topic at hand. I've been browsing through this thread, and this is what I've found to be the arguments and statements which are put in favor of telepathy by the supporters of its existence:

1) We use only 10 percent of our brain, so the other 90 percent could be applied to abilities such as telepathy.
2) Telepaths are naturally cautious about revealing their capabilities, out of fear of prosecution.
3) Stories of telepathy are widely known and its existence is believed by entire cultures and countries.
4) Through meditation you can study your own mind. If, in such an explored mind, a thought occurs which the owner of it did not expect, then that is the result of some one planting it in that person's mind.
5) Through meditation you can develop your mind. Such a development could lead to acquiring the ability of telepathy.

Argument 1 was already debunked on the first page. We do not use a small portion of our brain, we use all of it. Just not on the very same instant.

Argument 2 tends to contradict argument 3. Either they hide their abilities, and no one else knows about it or they do not hide it and we would know about it. Could you please make up your mind, concerning these two arguments? Aside from the contradiction, argument 2 can be debunked by constructing an experiment guaranteeing the safety of the telepath. Ophiolite already showed how.

Argument 3. People are known for their ability to entertain the implausible. They can believe in Gods they have never experienced, ghosts they have never seen, and telepaths they have never met. It's not at all a convincing argument that it must be so, just because some people happen to believe in it. Inquiries concerning which countries and cultures support belief in telepathy remain unanswered.

Argument 4 knows a far more mundane explanation: your brain can come up with unexpected thoughts and ideas, for at least two reasons:

1) the brain is inmensly complex, making it near impossible to forsee every possible thought it can come up with,
2) to entertain the idea that you can get to know your mind completely through meditation, seems erroneous due to simple fact that your mind changes every day. At this point, I apologise for the usage of the word "mind". I'm sure it's not entirely descriptive of what I mean, but I can't seem to find a word better describing the arena in which conscious thoughts occur.

If argument 5 holds to be true, and if meditation is practiced on a large scale (which I believe, it is), then evidence of telepathy should expected to be abundant. Yet, obviously, it isn't.

Please, feel free to mention what I might have missed.
 
mouse said:
Happeh,

I'm not going to be tricked into a discussion about a world wide Israeli conspiracy controlling every news outlet. Although I firmly and passionately disagree with you, my arguments concerning it do not belong in this thread. If you want to discuss it, you can open another thread and I'll respond to it there.

Now, back to the topic at hand. I've been browsing through this thread, and this is what I've found to be the arguments and statements which are put in favor of telepathy by the supporters of its existence:

1) We use only 10 percent of our brain, so the other 90 percent could be applied to abilities such as telepathy.
2) Telepaths are naturally cautious about revealing their capabilities, out of fear of prosecution.
3) Stories of telepathy are widely known and its existence is believed by entire cultures and countries.
4) Through meditation you can study your own mind. If, in such an explored mind, a thought occurs which the owner of it did not expect, then that is the result of some one planting it in that person's mind.
5) Through meditation you can develop your mind. Such a development could lead to acquiring the ability of telepathy.

Argument 1 was already debunked on the first page. We do not use a small portion of our brain, we use all of it. Just not on the very same instant.

Argument 2 tends to contradict argument 3. Either they hide their abilities, and no one else knows about it or they do not hide it and we would know about it. Could you please make up your mind, concerning these two arguments? Aside from the contradiction, argument 2 can be debunked by constructing an experiment guaranteeing the safety of the telepath. Ophiolite already showed how.

Argument 3. People are known for their ability to entertain the implausible. They can believe in Gods they have never experienced, ghosts they have never seen, and telepaths they have never met. It's not at all a convincing argument that it must be so, just because some people happen to believe in it. Inquiries concerning which countries and cultures support belief in telepathy remain unanswered.

Argument 4 knows a far more mundane explanation: your brain can come up with unexpected thoughts and ideas, for at least two reasons:

1) the brain is inmensly complex, making it near impossible to forsee every possible thought it can come up with,
2) to entertain the idea that you can get to know your mind completely through meditation, seems erroneous due to simple fact that your mind changes every day. At this point, I apologise for the usage of the word "mind". I'm sure it's not entirely descriptive of what I mean, but I can't seem to find a word better describing the arena in which conscious thoughts occur.

If argument 5 holds to be true, and if meditation is practiced on a large scale (which I believe, it is), then evidence of telepathy should expected to be abundant. Yet, obviously, it isn't.

Please, feel free to mention what I might have missed.

Hello, Mouse,

I think you've covered all bases quite well. :) Perhaps the only missing piece of the story is that there's interest (and belief) in telepathy simply because some people want it to be true. And they are likely to be the very same people that also believe the world press is controlled by "somebody", all the world's money is controlled by "somebody", that ghosts and spirits are real, etc. etc. And this is also the same group of gullible individuals on which the psychics, mind readers, fortunetellers and publishers of supermarket check-out tabloids depend upon for their income.

I believe it was P.T. Barnum who said one is born every minute - and the groups I just listed are very thankful for that. :D
 
duendy said:
Whe you say 'science' whaty do you mean? people use science. people wit difrent approaches use science, so your statment is quite generalized. can you be mo specifc
No it is not generalised. Do some reading.

duendy said:
and what about the MATERIALISTIC scientific ASSUMPTION that matyer is insentient and tat consciousness is a PRODUCT OF 'matter/energy'?....isn't that 'absolute' for them? what if you mntion 'spirituality' to that mindset? dont they behave all absolutist...or what?
Why would this be absolute?

Aren't you just making an assumption (or perhaps an ASSUMPTION) that matter is sentient?

Do you have evidence to support this idea?
 
shaman_ said:
No it is not generalised. Do some reading.


Why would this be absolute?

Aren't you just making an assumption (or perhaps an ASSUMPTION) that matter is sentient?

Do you have evidence to support this idea?

Ohhhhhh! You've said a naughty word!!! She doesn't respond well to "evidence!" :D
 
My grandmother once said to me :
"that it is quite ok to talk to a rock, it is only when the rock talks back that you have a problem...." ha
 
************************************************************************
SYMPTOMS OF PATHOLOGICAL SKEPTICISM (c)1996 William J. Beaty
************************************************************************
THIS PAGE: http://amasci.com/pathsk2.txt
MAIN PAGE: http://amasci.com/weird/wclose.html


Many members of the mainstream scientific community react with extreme
hostility when presented with certain claims. This can be seen in their
emotional responses to current controversies such as UFO abductions, Cold
Fusion, cryptozoology, psi, and numerous others. The scientists react not
with pragmatism and a wish to get to the bottom of things, but instead
with the same tactics religious groups use to suppress heretics: hostile
emotional attacks, circular reasoning, dehumanizing of the 'enemy',
extreme closed-mindedness, intellectually dishonest reasoning, underhanded
debating tactics, negative gossip, and all manner of name-calling and
character assassination.

Two can play at that game! Therefore, I call their behavior "Pathological
Skepticism," a term I base upon skeptics' assertion that various
unacceptable ideas are "Pathological Science." Below is a list of the
symptoms of pathological skepticism I have encountered, and examples of
the irrational reasoning they tend to produce.

(Note: all the quotes are artificial examples)


1. Belief that theories determine phenomena, rather than the reverse.

"The phenomenon you have observed is impossible, crazy stuff. We know
of no mechanism which could explain your results, so we have grave
suspicions about the accuracy your report. There is no room for your
results in modern theory, so they simply cannot exist. You are
obviously the victim of errors, hoaxers, or self-delusion. We need
not publish your paper, and any attempts at replicating your results
would be a waste of time. Your requests for funding are misguided,
and should be turned down."




2. Erecting barriers against new ideas by constantly altering the
requirements for acceptance. (A practice called "moving the
goalposts.")

"I'll believe it when 'X' happens" (but when it does, this immediately
is changed to: "I'll believe it when 'Y' happens.")

Example:
"I won't believe it until major laboratories publish papers in this
field. They have? That means nothing! Major labs have been wrong
before. I'll believe it when stores sell products which use the
effect. They do? That means nothing, after all, stores sell magic
healing pendants and Ouija boards. I'll believe it when a Nobel
Prize winning researcher gets behind that work. One has? Well
that means nothing! That person is probably old and dotty like
Dr. Pauling and his vitamin-C..." etc.



3. Belief that fundamental concepts in science rarely change, coupled
with a "herd following" behavior where the individual changes his/her
opinions when colleagues all do, all the while remaining blind to the
fact that any opinions had ever changed.

"The study of (space flight, endosymbiosis, drillcore bacteria,
child abuse, cold fusion, etc.) has always been a legitimate
pursuit. If scientists ever ridiculed the reported evidence or
tried to stop such research, it certainly was not a majority of
scientists. It must have been just a few misguided souls, and must
have happened in the distant past."



4. Belief that science is guided by consensus beliefs and majority rule,
rather than by evidence. Indulging in behavior which reinforces the
negative effects of consensus beliefs while minimizing the impact of
any evidence which contradicts those beliefs.

"I don't care how good your evidence is, I won't believe it until the
majority of scientists also find it acceptable. Your evidence
cannot be right, because it would mean that hundreds of textbooks
and thousands of learned experts are wrong.



5. Adopting a prejudiced stance against a theory or an observed phenomena
without first investigating the details, then using this as
justification for refusing to investigate the details.

"Your ideas are obviously garbage. What, try to replicate your
evidence? I wouldn't soil my hands. And besides, it would be
a terrible waste of time and money, since there's no question about
the outcome."




6. Maintaining an unshakable stance of hostile, intolerant skepticism,
and when anyone complains of this, accusing them of paranoid delusion.
Remaining blind to scientists' widespread practice of intellectual
suppression of unorthodox findings, and to the practice of "expulsion
of heretics" through secret, back-room accusations of deviance or
insanity.

"You say that no one will listen to your ideas, and now the funding
for your other projects is cut off for no reason? And colleagues
are secretly passing around a petition demanding that you be
removed? If you're thinking along THOSE lines, then you obviously
are delusional and should be seeking professional help."



7. Ignoring the lessons of history, and therefore opening the way for
repeating them again and again.

"Scientists of old ridiculed the germ theory, airplanes, space
flight, meteors, etc. They were certain that science of the time
had everything figured out, and that major new discoveries were no
longer possible. Isn't it good that we researchers of today are much
more wise, and such things can no longer happen!"




8. *Denial* of the lessons of history. An inability to admit that
science has made serious mistakes in the past. Maintaining a belief
that good ideas and discoveries are never accidentally suppressed by
closed-mindedness, then revising history to fit this belief.

"Throughout history, the *majority* of scientists never ridiculed
flying machines, spacecraft, television, continental drift, reports
of ball lightning, meteors, sonoluminescence, etc. These
discoveries are not examples of so-called 'paradigm shifts', they
are obvious examples of the slow, steady, forward progress made by
science!"



9. Using circular arguments to avoid accepting evidence which supports
unusual discoveries, or to prevent publication of this evidence.

"I do not have to inspect the evidence because I know it's wrong.
I know it's wrong because I've never seen any positive evidence."

"We will not publish your paper, since these results have not been
replicated by any other researchers. We will not publish your
paper, since it is merely a replication of work which was done
earlier, by other researchers."




10. Accusing opponents of delusion, lying, or even financial fraud, where
no evidence for fraud exists other than the supposed impossibility of
evidence being presented.

"Don't trust researchers who study parapsychology. They constantly
cheat and lie in order to support their strange worldviews. Very
few of them have been caught at it, but it's not necessary to do
so, since any fool can see that the positive evidence for psi can
only be created by people who are either disturbed or dishonest.



11. Unwarranted confidence that the unknown is in the far distance, not
staring us in the face.

"Your evidence cannot be real because it's not possible that
thousands of researchers could have overlooked it for all these
years. If your discovery was real, the scientists who work in that
field would already know about it."



12. Belief that certain fields of science are complete, that scientific
revolutions never happen, and that any further progress must occur
only in brushing up the details.

"Physics is a mature field. Future progress can only lie in
increasing the energies of particle accelerators, and in refining
the precision of well-known measurements. Your discovery cannot
be true, since it would mean we'd have to throw out all our hard-
won knowledge about physics."



13. Excusing the ridicule, trivialization, and the scorn which is directed
at 'maverick' ideas and at anomalous evidence. Insisting that
sneering and derisive emotional attacks constitute a desirable and
properly scientific natural selection force.

"It is right that new discoveries be made to overcome large
barriers. That way only the good ideas will become accepted.
If some important discoveries are suppressed in this process, well,
that's just the price we have to pay to defend science against the
fast-growing hoards of crackpots who threaten to destroy it."



14. Justifying any refusal to inspect evidence by claiming a "slippery
slope." Using the necessary judicious allocation of time and funding
as a weapon to prevent investigation of unusual, novel, or threatening
ideas.

"If we take your unlikely discovery seriously, all scientists
everywhere will have to accept every other crackpot idea too, and
then we'll waste all of our time checking out crackpot claims."



15. A blindness to phenomena which do not fit the current belief system,
coupled with a denial that beliefs affect perceptions.

"Thomas Kuhn's 'paradigm shifts' and sociology's 'cognitive
dissonance' obviously do not apply to average, rational scientists.
Scientists are objective, so they are not prone to the psychological
failings which plague normal humans. Scientists always welcome any
data which indicates a need to revise their current knowledge. Their
"beliefs" don't affect their perceptions, scientists don't have
"beliefs", science is not a religion!



16. A belief that all scientific progress is made by small, safe, obvious
steps, that widely-accepted theories are never overturned, and that no
new discoveries come from anomalies observed.

"All your observations are obviously mistakes. They couldn't
possibly be real, because if they were real, it would mean that
major parts of current science are wrong, and we would have to
rewrite large portions of we know about physics. This never
occurs. Science proceeds by building on earlier works, never by
tearing them down. Therefore it is right that we reject evidence
which contradicts contemporary theory, and recommend that funding
of such research not be continued."



17. Hiding any evidence of personal past ridicule of ideas which are later
proved valid. Profound narcissism; an extreme need to always be
right, a fear of having personal errors revealed, and a habit of
silently covering up past mistakes.

" X is obviously ridiculous, and its supporters are crack-
pots who are giving us a bad name and should be silenced."

But if X is proved true, the assertion suddenly becomes:

"Since 'X' is obviously true, it follows that..."



18. Belief in the lofty status of modern science but with consequent
blindness to, and denial of, its faults. A tendency to view shameful
events in the history of modern science as being beneficial, and a
lack of any desire to fix contemporary problems.

"It was right that Dr. Wegner's career was wrecked; that he was
treated as a crackpot, ridiculed, and died in shame. His evidence
for continental drift convinced no one. And besides, he did not
propose a mechanism to explain the phenomena."



19. A belief that Business and the Press have no tendency towards close-
mindedness and suppression of novelty, and that their actions are
never are guided by the publicly-expressed judgement of scientists.

"If the Wright Brothers' claims were true, we would be reading about
it in all the papers, and flying-machine companies would be
springing up left and right. Neither of these is occurring,
therefor the Wright's claims are obviously a lie and a hoax.



20. Refusing to be swayed when other researchers find evidence supporting
unconventional phenomena or theories. If other reputable people
change sides and accept the unorthodox view, this is seen as evidence
of their gullibility or insanity, not as evidence that perhaps the
unconventional view is correct.

"I'll believe it when someone like Dr. P believes it."

But when Dr. P changes sides, this becomes:

"Dr. P did some great work in his early years, but then he destroyed
his career by getting involved with that irrational crackpot
stuff."



21. Elevating skepticism to a lofty position, yet indulging in hypocrisy
and opening the way to pathological thinking by refusing to ever cast
a critical, SKEPTICAL eye upon the irrational behavior of scoffers.

"Criticizing skeptics is never beneficial. It even represents a
danger to science. One should never criticize science, it just
gives ammunition to the enemy; it aids the irrational, anti-science
hoards who would destroy our fragile edifice."



22. Belief that modern scientists as a group lack faults, and therefore
clinging to any slim justifications in order to ignore the arguments
of those who hope to eliminate the flaws in Science.

"I think we can safely ignore Thomas Kuhn's STRUCTURES OF SCIENTIFIC
REVOLUTIONS. Despite his physics training we can see that Kuhn was
an outsider to science; he obviously doesn't have a good grasp on
real science. Outsiders never can see things in the proper positive
light, it takes a working scientist to see the real situation.
Also, he stressed his central themes way too much, so I think we can
ignore him as simply being a sensationalist. And besides, if he's
digging up dirt regarding science, then he must have a hidden agenda.
I bet we'll find that he's a Christian or something, probably a
creationist."


23. Blindness to the widespread existence of the above symptoms. Belief
that scientists are inherently objective, and rarely fall victim to
these faults. Excusing the frequent appearance of these symptoms as
being isolated instances which do not comprise an accumulation of
evidence for the common practice of Pathological Skepticism.

"This 'Pathological Skepticism' does not exist. Kooks and
crackpots deserve the hostile mistreatment we give them, but
anyone who does similar things to skeptics is terribly misguided.
Those who criticize skeptics are a danger to Science itself, and we
must stop them."


"A danger sign of the lapse from true skepticism in to dogmatism is an
inability to respect those who disagree" - Dr. Leonard George


See also:

Zen and the art of debunkery, Dan Drasin
http://amasci.com/pathskep.html

Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Skepticism
http://mathpost.la.asu.edu/~boerner/seven warning signs.html

RIDICULED DISCOVERERS,
VINDICATED MAVERICKS
 
Last edited:
mouse said:
Happeh,

I'm not going to be tricked into a discussion about a world wide Israeli conspiracy controlling every news outlet. Although I firmly and passionately disagree with you, my arguments concerning it do not belong in this thread. If you want to discuss it, you can open another thread and I'll respond to it there.

Huh? Tricked? That is reality. It applied to your claim about the news being free, open and unbiased.

mouse said:
2) Telepaths are naturally cautious about revealing their capabilities, out of fear of prosecution.

Argument 2 tends to contradict argument 3. Either they hide their abilities, and no one else knows about it or they do not hide it and we would know about it. Could you please make up your mind, concerning these two arguments? Aside from the contradiction, argument 2 can be debunked by constructing an experiment guaranteeing the safety of the telepath. Ophiolite already showed how.

You know what? I am reading a book right this minute with espers in it. In the book, the espers are being hunted down by, guess who? The government. Guess why? Becuase the government cannot control them. It is a common theme in books about espers or telepaths.

You seem to believe that there cannot be rumors of telepaths simultaneously with telepaths are hiding claims. Why not? Some people said there was WMD in Iraq, some people said their were not. There is disagreement on just about everything in the entire world.

mouse said:
5) Through meditation you can develop your mind. Such a development could lead to acquiring the ability of telepathy.

If argument 5 holds to be true, and if meditation is practiced on a large scale (which I believe, it is), then evidence of telepathy should expected to be abundant. Yet, obviously, it isn't.

Please, feel free to mention what I might have missed.

Easy. You don't know the right people. I don't know what to tell you. There is such a thing as telepathy. There are groups of people that all agree it does exist. There are probably 10,000's of people across the planet that use it. You want someone you consider an authority to say there is such a thing. There are no authorities in your worldview that believe in telepathy. That is part of what makes your world what it is. Disbelief in telepathy.

The people that could reassure you or demonstrate to you are not part of your worldview. Your worldview devalues these people and their opinions. Someone somewhere has to change. Worldviews are like categories of music. They won't change. The only thing that can change is you. You have to give up your worldview and look into other worldviews. You have to waste your time and energy looking around to see for yourself instead of taking the word of the authorities for your particular worldview.
 
Happeh said:
You know what? I am reading a book right this minute with espers in it. In the book, the espers are being hunted down by, guess who? The government.

Wow. You're reading a book. You do realize its fiction, right? Could this be the sort of thing that feeds an over-active imagination.

Happeh said:
You seem to believe that there cannot be rumors of telepaths simultaneously with telepaths are hiding claims. Why not? Some people said there was WMD in Iraq, some people said their were not. There is disagreement on just about everything in the entire world.

Ironically, those that disagreed that Iraq had WMD were skeptical because of the lack of evidence. Never was it demonstrated that there was evidence that Hussein had WMDs capable of threatening the U.S. Yet the Bush admin kept repeating phrases that included, "mushroom cloud," in their propaganda to the people. They made numerous appearances in the popular media.

It all turned out to be fiction. Science was ignored (the claims of anthrax and VX gas stores were bogus based simply on the known shelf-life of these substances) and evidence was never presented.

I said "ironic" because that's the same logic being applied to 'telepathy' by some of those posting here. There's a lot of talk about how it exists, but no evidence. And, like the WMDs, it will never be shown.

Happeh said:
There are groups of people that all agree it does exist.

There was a whole group of people who agreed that an alien spaceship was hiding behind a comet and they were 'chosen' for ascension. The Heaven's Gate cult all committed suicide in their attempt to join their alien brothers. There are several hundred religions around the world: entire groups of people who believe theirs is the one true faith. There are entire groups of people that agree baobab trees listen to conversations between people and even gossip with others. Believing isn't evidence that a phenomenon exists. It is only evidence that the belief in the phenomenon exists.

Happeh said:
There are probably 10,000's of people across the planet that use it.

Except there isn't one shred of data to support that claim. Not one shred. It can't even be demonstrated that two people use it.

Happeh said:
You want someone you consider an authority to say there is such a thing. There are no authorities in your worldview that believe in telepathy.

Authority is irrelevant. The only thing that need occur is a controlled experiment that demonstrates the existence of telepathy. An experiment that has the potential to be replicated.

Happeh said:
The people that could reassure you or demonstrate to you are not part of your worldview. Your worldview devalues these people and their opinions. Someone somewhere has to change.

Their 'worldview' is irrelevant. Either the abilities exist or they don't. What's fascinating is what I've pointed out several times in this and other threads: those that claim nonsense like 'telepathy' exists will invariably retreat to the position that skeptics won't ever see the evidence because true 'telepaths' don't want their abilities in the public eye. Yet, these same people cry the loudest when the skeptics question the claim. If it's such a secret and it's not for us, then why bitch and moan so loudly when the big, bad skeptic says, "I doubt it."
 
SkinWalker said:
Their 'worldview' is irrelevant. Either the abilities exist or they don't. What's fascinating is what I've pointed out several times in this and other threads: those that claim nonsense like 'telepathy' exists will invariably retreat to the position that skeptics won't ever see the evidence because true 'telepaths' don't want their abilities in the public eye. Yet, these same people cry the loudest when the skeptics question the claim. If it's such a secret and it's not for us, then why bitch and moan so loudly when the big, bad skeptic says, "I doubt it."

Exactly. And it's precisely the same child-like mindset that would claim the Easter Bunny exists - but you'll never see him because you don't believe in him!

Meanwhile, the "true believers" wait and wait and wait...

Ha-ha! This whole telepathy business reminds me of the Peanuts cartoon strip that used to appear every fall about the Great Pumpkin. :D
 
i don't know man, this whole business of telepathy seems possible.
but not without some sort of encoder/decoder

a related question would be "can we make our thoughts a reality"
i seen a discovery channel special where a man designed a distributer cap on a computer using a cad program.
he then pressed a button, a laser beam traced out the pattern on a liquid as the liquid level was slowly lowered.
when it was done he had the distributer cap in hand that he just designed on the computer.
all we need to do now is reduce the lead time to zero and "thoughts to reality" results.
 
nameless said:
If the two of you are interested in learning of the blatant pathology that you are exhibiting, and you are going through the symptoms like clockwork, feel free to read about you here, SYMPTOMS OF PATHOLOGICAL SKEPTICISM

If I am one of "the two of you" you're referring to, you might be interested to know that I'm a retired professor of psychology. You, on the other hand, are most likely a professor of nothing and seem to know almost nothing. There have been no pathological symptoms presented here except those evident in the weak and deluded minds of the "believers."

Would you care to match wits with a true professional over the matter? If so, consider this an open invitation - and you had best bring along some intelligent help.
 
nameless said:
If the two of you are interested in learning of the blatant pathology that you are exhibiting, and you are going through the symptoms like clockwork, feel free to read about you here, SYMPTOMS OF PATHOLOGICAL SKEPTICISM

First of all, that site that you linked to didn't source any empirical data from which it drew its conclusions.

Second, retreating to the "you're wrong because you can't disprove it" argument and simply saying "your skepticism is pathological" doesn't imply truth to either statement.

You are a deluded young person with some deficits in his education. That much is apparent. But if you would see past the emotion that you feel because someone dares to question your beliefs, you might find that questioning them is a rational position.

Instead, you get angry, respond with ad hominem comments and make an ass out of yourself. Interesting site, however. Perhaps I'll post a review of its flaws.
 
Light said:
If I am one of "the two of you" you're referring to, you might be interested to know that I'm a retired professor of psychology. You, on the other hand, are most likely a professor of nothing and seem to know almost nothing. There have been no pathological symptoms presented here except those evident in the weak and deluded minds of the "believers."

Would you care to match wits with a true professional over the matter? If so, consider this an open invitation - and you had best bring along some intelligent help.
So, without reading or commenting, intelligently, on the material, you offer nothing but a personal ad hominem attack? I'm supposed to be impressed by your great intelligence and 'credentials' now? You couldn't even manage to comment on the material.
Lets see what pathological symptoms you exhibit;

5. Adopting a prejudiced stance against a theory or an observed phenomena
without first investigating the details, then using this as
justification for refusing to investigate the details.


6. Maintaining an unshakable stance of hostile, intolerant skepticism,
and when anyone complains of this, accusing them of paranoid delusion.
Remaining blind to scientists' widespread practice of intellectual
suppression of unorthodox findings, and to the practice of "expulsion
of heretics" through secret, back-room accusations of deviance or
insanity.


10. Accusing opponents of delusion, lying, or even financial fraud, where
no evidence for fraud exists other than the supposed impossibility of
evidence being presented.

"Don't trust researchers who study parapsychology. They constantly
cheat and lie in order to support their strange worldviews. Very
few of them have been caught at it, but it's not necessary to do
so, since any fool can see that the positive evidence for psi can
only be created by people who are either disturbed or dishonest.

13. Excusing the ridicule, trivialization, and the scorn which is directed
at 'maverick' ideas and at anomalous evidence. Insisting that
sneering and derisive emotional attacks constitute a desirable and
properly scientific natural selection force.

"It is right that new discoveries be made to overcome large
barriers. That way only the good ideas will become accepted.
If some important discoveries are suppressed in this process, well,
that's just the price we have to pay to defend science against the
fast-growing hoards of crackpots who threaten to destroy it."

15. A blindness to phenomena which do not fit the current belief system,
coupled with a denial that beliefs affect perceptions.

"Thomas Kuhn's 'paradigm shifts' and sociology's 'cognitive
dissonance' obviously do not apply to average, rational scientists.
Scientists are objective, so they are not prone to the psychological
failings which plague normal humans. Scientists always welcome any
data which indicates a need to revise their current knowledge. Their
"beliefs" don't affect their perceptions, scientists don't have
"beliefs", science is not a religion!

20. (I don't know whether this one fits, but I'd be willing to bet...)
Refusing to be swayed when other researchers find evidence supporting
unconventional phenomena or theories. If other reputable people
change sides and accept the unorthodox view, this is seen as evidence
of their gullibility or insanity, not as evidence that perhaps the
unconventional view is correct.

"I'll believe it when someone like Dr. P believes it."

But when Dr. P changes sides, this becomes:

"Dr. P did some great work in his early years, but then he destroyed
his career by getting involved with that irrational crackpot
stuff."


21. Elevating skepticism to a lofty position, yet indulging in hypocrisy
and opening the way to pathological thinking by refusing to ever cast
a critical, SKEPTICAL eye upon the irrational behavior of scoffers.

23. Blindness to the widespread existence of the above symptoms. Belief
that scientists are inherently objective, and rarely fall victim to
these faults. Excusing the frequent appearance of these symptoms as
being isolated instances which do not comprise an accumulation of
evidence for the common practice of Pathological Skepticism.

"This 'Pathological Skepticism' does not exist. Kooks and
crackpots deserve the hostile mistreatment we give them, but
anyone who does similar things to skeptics is terribly misguided.
Those who criticize skeptics are a danger to Science itself, and we
must stop them."

No, I don't think that I'll waste my time with your proposed game.
After all, you have already displayed your 'hand' by not even responding, other than defensively, emotionally and personally, to the material offered. What you have NOT displayed is any sign of real intelligence. Just a squawking attack... more pathology...
A shame that your pathology neuters your 'degree'.
 
nameless said:
So, without reading or commenting, intelligently, on the material, you offer nothing but a personal ad hominem attack? I'm supposed to be impressed by your great intelligence and 'credentials' now? You couldn't even manage to comment on the material.

Yes, I've already read it. And no, I wouldn't waste my time commenting on it because it's such an amateurish job - like something that you might produce yourself (but obviously above your ability to do so) because it in no way demonstrates the way real scientists approach things and they all ARE true skeptics.

No, I don't think that I'll waste my time with your proposed game.
After all, you have already displayed your 'hand' by not even responding, other than defensively, emotionally and personally, to the material offered. What you have NOT displayed is any sign of real intelligence. Just a squawking attack... more pathology...
A shame that your pathology neuters your 'degree'.

I wasn't proposing a "game", young man. I was proposing a test of real knowledge against your clear lack of such. You wouldn't know a true pathological symptom if it flew up and bit you on the nose.

And I pretty well figured you'd avoid the invitation since you have nothing in terms of knowledge to work from.
 
Happeh said:
It applied to your claim about the news being free, open and unbiased.
To my best knowledge, I never made such a claim. What I did say is that all of the content on the Internet is impossible to control. But never mind that, it would get us off track again.

You know what? I am reading a book right this minute with espers in it. In the book, the espers are being hunted down by, guess who? The government. Guess why? Becuase the government cannot control them. It is a common theme in books about espers or telepaths.
Could you give me the title of the book?

You seem to believe that there cannot be rumors of telepaths simultaneously with telepaths are hiding claims. Why not?
Rumours? You base your argument on rumours? You do not agree with me that rumours are not the best source of reliable information?

There is disagreement on just about everything in the entire world.
Pretty much. That's why it is very important to look at the arguments either side presents. Your case doesn't seem very convincing.

Easy. You don't know the right people.
Fine. Could you then please convince a few of those "right people" to give us the evidence we so desperately seek. They can do it in anonymity, of course, by the means of the sort of experiments earlier described.

There is such a thing as telepathy. There are groups of people that all agree it does exist.
Then why do you have such a difficulty giving valid arguments for its existence.

You want someone you consider an authority to say there is such a thing. There are no authorities in your worldview that believe in telepathy.
All that I want is some concrete evidence. Not a story of someone you know, not a legend, not a rumour, but something which is testable. If you, or any telepath is not up for it, that is perfectly fine. But do not expect me, or any one else for that matter, to take your claims seriously.

The people that could reassure you or demonstrate to you are not part of your worldview. Your worldview devalues these people and their opinions.
I disagree with you on, I suspect, many topics. But I do not devalue you or any one else.
 
Last edited:
Nameless...GREAT source you posted--the 'pathological skepticism'---a bgrilliant overview of these ignoramouses who ae are so determined to b blind they just will not see

do you ever get the feelin your floggin a dead horse?.....but what keeps ME goin is
is i feeel why the fuk shouldthese pathological skeptics tak over these forums. manypeople read here, andi feel that your presence, passion, and effort encourages others to be bold ad not be oppressed by the rusty old mscientific fundamentalism

THANKSfor -posting those sources, i am gonna really take a look at them......the 'fact-heads' here are the living illustrationsof what is written there!....quite amusing and sad isn't it?
 
i felt this quote is pertinent to this thread.

taken from;

THE REALITY OF THE INVISIBLE
AND THE
ACTUALITY OF THE UNSEEN WORLDS

Annie Beasnt 1921


it is not enough that we should think of the super-physical worlds as worlds that we may, or even shall, pass into after death; the realization of these worlds, if they are to influence conduct, must be a constant fact in consciousness, and man must live consciously in the three worlds, the physical, the astral, the heavenly. For that only is actual to man to which his consciousness responds; if his consciousness does not answer to a thing, for him that thing has no existence; the boundary of his power to respond is the boundary of his recognition of the existent. A man might be surrounded by the play of colors, but were it not for the eye, they would not, for him, exist; waves of melody might sweep around him, but without the ear, there would, for him, be silence. And so the worlds invisible may play on a man, but while he is unconscious of their presence, for him they do not exist. So long as that irresponsiveness continues, no amount of description can make them living, actual; to him they must remain as the dream of the poet, the vision of the painter, the hope of the optimist, beautiful exceedingly, perchance, but without proof, without substance, without reality.
 
duendy said:
THANKSfor -posting those sources, i am gonna really take a look at them......the 'fact-heads' here are the living illustrationsof what is written there!....quite amusing and sad isn't it?
I thought you'd enjoy it. Yeah, all they can do is spew their trollish BS. Always more of the same. Ridicule, personal attacks, but one NEVER sees any sign of creative thought! That takes courage...
 
Back
Top