Creationism vs. science

-What is Faith?



Another misconception atheist use as an attack against Christianity is the word “Faith”. Faith= Trust; loyalty; belief on something without a need of proof; reliance; pledged word. For example, a close family friend approached you and asked if she can borrow your car for 2 days and promised to return it back, however, she gave you her credit card incase if the car gets totally wrecked you can take all the money out of her bank and keep it to replace your car. But because you have “faith” in her, you just told her “its ok, you don’t need to give me your credit card, you’re my best friend and a good driver for many years now and I know you’ll return the car on time safely, I trust you”. That’s faith. People use faith in many aspects in life. People put faith in family and friends, neighbors, experts, etc. We even put faith in science, otherwise if no one does, then people will not listen to it, will give no support and donation to it, therefore science wouldn’t exist today. Here’s another example of faith; when you buy a Toyota Truck, since your not a mechanic, you have no idea how the engine works, but you have faith in the car that it will take you places, it has a good reputation, many people testified that Toyota trucks have engine that last forever, even most mechanics recommend Toyota, because of their testimony, you put faith in Toyota trucks and rely on it, even if you have no clue how the engine works. And when your car breaks down, you take the car to them and get it fixed, and because that’s their profession, you have faith that they will get the job done. I can probably set over 100 more examples of faith. (By the way, you don’t call mechanics, brain surgeons, God, biochemist, and computer engineers “the magicians”, just because of the knowledge you don’t have.)
Atheist meanwhile got the word “faith” mixed up with “myth’. They think that to have faith on something is to believe on myths. How strange. So if I have faith in family and friends, it means that they are myths? Their own definition of faith is “belief on something that cannot be proven; in other words, “Faith=belief on myths and non-existence”. Atheists are stupid like that; most of them are so ignorant. Hey cone heads! Yeah I’m talking to you atheist people, to have faith is to believe on something without a need of proof because of loyalty and reliance. Some may even put faith in mythical U.F.O’s, they may want or may not want proof, this may not even be proven at all! Or put faith in mythical Zeus the Greek god, you may want or may not want proof, but you can have faith in that as well, even if it’s existence have no proof thus making it a ‘myth’, your still entitled to that mythical belief, you can be that extremely loyal (to believe on something that have no proof, such as toothfairy and atheism). But once again, faith is NOT to believe on something that cannot be proven, but belief on something that you need no proof of because of loyalty and reliance. Stupid atheist kids… Whether God’s love is proven or not, you believe in Him because you trust Him, that’s what faith is. Confused or not, in good times and in bad, you remain loyal and faithful. Christianity requires faith because of its deep mystery each individual cannot comprehend, from the sacraments, Holy Trinity, laws and tradition, to the commandments and canonized books, faith doesn’t mean that God and religion cannot be proven.

Faith may also be linked in what has no proof, but such faith is called "BLIND FAITH" and it is linked to cults, fake christians, or mentally deranged peeps who believes in toothfairy, or in some case, atheism which has no proof as well.
 
I knew my destination from my moment of birth I'd live my life my own way and wreak havoc on Earth Through my entire childhood most everyone could tell I HAVE NO EARTHLY MASTER 'CAUSE I'M CONDEMNED TO HELL! My moral violations are proof for all to see My life is just a journey to where I oughtta be There are evil wicked forces within my every cell Which always reassures me that I'm condemned to hell! Hell - Is meant for me Hell - Is where I'll be Hell - The place I'll roam Hell - My final home
To many I'm a demon to others I'm insane But all who dare confront me are brought to death in pain I always kill them slowly I love to hear them yell I slaughter without mercy and I'm condemned to hell!! YES, I POST THE LYRICS OF THE SONGS I AM LISTENING TO NOW I AM RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG MUSCLEMAN!

Beware the mackrel.
 
muscleman, where's my walkie-talkie message from god?

muscleman, thanks for insulting me and stereotyping my beliefs.

muscleman, thanks for typing in all caps when you are trying to say the same thing you have said before.

muscleman, thanks for showing us all that if we do not believe what you believe, we have serious mental problems and need help.

muscleman, if you ever repeat one of my threads again, I will disregard you as a blind fool.

muscleman, you inspire me to anger when you show me how stupid I am for being an atheist. must you do this to prove your point?

oh, and muscleman, I do believe you have not understood my first post, so here is a repeat of it for you to ponder, perhaps a bit more carefully this time:

I'm sure this has already been stated (this is an argument regarding Creationism vs. Evolution):

Creationism makes empirical predictions when combined with widely accepted hypotheses.

These predictions are false.

Therefore, while Creationism is a scientific theory, it is a poor one.

Why teach poor, unjustified scientific theories in school?

Why believe unjustified theories?

By the way, I suggest you rethink this statement of yours: "Therefore, while Creationism is a scientific fact, Chance is a poor scientific theory, in fact it's a false claim." Creationism is a scientific fact? Hmm, please show me your data that proves this to be true (this is not possible if we are to consider Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, but just for kicks, let us see your resounding proof of Creationism as a scientific fact). Also, please explain to me where "chance" falls into this? Evolution is not a result of chance. Please show me where along the road of your argument you a) proved Chaos Theory and b) attributed this to evolution.

Again, I reiterate: please do not insult me or my beliefs.
 
Originally posted by Phrenetic

Creationism is a scientific fact? Hmm, please show me your data that proves this to be true (this is not possible if we are to consider Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, but just for kicks, let us see your resounding proof of Creationism as a scientific fact). Also, please explain to me where "chance" falls into this? Evolution is not a result of chance. Please show me where along the road of your argument you a) proved Chaos Theory and b) attributed this to evolution.

Again, I reiterate: please do not insult me or my beliefs.

Creationism, "created" "creating", it depends how you interpret it, but if you interpret it in an account of bible in its literal sense, then it will not be a scientific fact, otherwise, if defined as things to be created through "intelligence" indeed, it is a scientific fact. Why and How? Since the ordered, complex, and functional body and biology wise is the debate, i will leave that out and take the ordered, complex, and functional technological body for example.

Complex, ordered, and functioning computers, intelligence or "luck"? Complex, ordered, and functioning television, intelligence or "freak accident"? Complex, ordered, and functioning cars, intelligence or "chance"? Complex, ordered, and functioning microwave, intelligence or "coincidence"? Complex, ordered, and functioning airplanes, intelligence or "invisible thingy, you may call quantum physics". A car is designed to take you places, an airplane is designed to fly, a cat is designed to chase a rat, a predators is designed to eat omnivors, a microwave is designed to heat food, a water is designed to nourish the body, video games is designed to entertain us, a rain is designed to give water to creatures. Every design implies a designer. CREATURE, CREATED, IMPLIES A CREATOR. PERIOD, NEED I SAY MORE?

So much proof of God, in Genesis it is written "God created the heavens and the earth in 7 days" such symbolic words are true and factual as today there are 7 days the whole world abides to, from usa to china, monday tuesday, wednesday, etc. Jesus is the alpha and the omega, it is prophesied that from 12 apostles will sprout about many and many, look today and the past, maybe trillions of believers, indeed this is true that Jesus revolutionized the whole world, every corners of the earth have believers of Him, the history marked Jesus existence, B.C (before christ), A.D. (after Christ death). Ohh man, so much tons of proof of God, NEED I SAY MORE?
 
on the 7th day, god made it a law that it will be the day or rest. In fact today sunday which is a week-end is the day or rest, football day, etc. Whether your christians or not, you abide by this law. WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT THAT? AGAIN "CHANCE"? HAHAHAHA. ITS ALWAYS "LUCK" AND ALWAYS "SUPER DUPER COINCIDENCE", atheist do better than super luck excuse, please...
 
Muscleman:

Ok I think I understand more about you now. You don't believe in the bible literally right? SO then you believe there is a god, and god created the universe around 15 billion years ago (science) and something about he created humans or life? Could you explain your beliefs so I might relate to them?

It is a bit annoying when you call atheists children and ridicule our line of thought. Would it be possible for us to have a normal discussion? You persist in insulting anyone who doesn't believe you. well?

I have a problems with you "proof" of god. Once again, I do not belive in "luck" or "chance". You keep saying that sinse humans have created computers, then intelligence CAN be created from intelligence. (on another note, it seem a bit strange that you refute that humans will ever be able to create a cell, yet you consider intelligence "higher"). Im saying why MUST intelligence be created by intelligence? Why can't intelligence be created through some OTHER non-chance situation?

Why you ask a scientist a question like "where did matter come from?", they WON'T say "its always been there", unless they are stupid. They, at least, SHOULD say that they don't know. And we don't. But it doesn't mean that it has been there forever!

So what ARE your beliefs?
 
"In fact today sunday which is a week-end is the day or rest, football day, etc. "

You realize that we live in a christian society. Most of our laws are based on biblical refernces. Puritans, lutherins, protestants, all sects of christians, and many others came directly from the bible and those were the people that founded our nation. It would be rather strange if we found ourselves with budist laws, being a predominately christian nation.

"Whether your christians or not, you abide by this law. "

I definately don't, the military doesn't, not to mention sunday isn't at the same time for the whole world. Obviously god wasn't such a good observer, he didn't even notice that there were different time zones!
 
Muscleman,

And intelligence is PROVEN by science for its capability, including computer chess intelligence which has its own judgment and reaction in a field of playing chess.
This is incorrect. The best chess playing computers as yet are not based on intelligence. They simply use their processing speed to check through much larger numbers of combinations of moves than is capable than the human brain.

When IBM’s Deep Blue beat Kasparov, that machine was large and powerful for the time but contained no AI processes. It was just a fast number cruncher.

I’m not sure where you are going with this argument.

We have yet to develop any truly intelligent machines although the development of AI research has been rapidly increasing its pace these past few years. Regular book stores now have whole shelves devoted to AI development, hmm, well at least here in Silicon Valley. The fastest CPU chips are not yet capable of any real intelligence. But if Moore’s law holds firm as it has since the mid 1940s then we should see some significantly intelligent machines within the next few years. Human equivalent intelligence should be possible by around 2012 depending on software development progress. The hardware should certainly have sufficient power by then. Beyond that time machines should begin to exceed human intelligence and are likely to become the dominant intelligence on the planet soon after and will continue to increase their intelligence.

The future of human evolution then becomes somewhat hazy. Even the survival of the human race is in doubt. With biogenetic engineering we are beginning to take control of our own evolution, i.e. slow adaptations and mutations will be replaced with planned genetic choices. However, massive increases in biological based intelligence is highly unlikely to occur at anywhere near the same pace as machine intelligence. Our best hope of survival is most likely to use technology to enhance ourselves by upgrading our slow biological based brains to the faster and vastly more powerful electronic brains. In that way we would be able to compete and keep up with the intelligent machines. Discarding our frail and error prone biological bodies would likely occur at the same time. This is the birth of Robosapiens.

I can’t see that the fantasies of gods and spirits have any relevance now and I can’t see them having any relevance in our foreseeable future.

While you may not believe the sequence above, I’m afraid that many working in technology see it as inevitable and I’m part of making it happen. However, the creation of entities that exceed our own intelligence demonstrates once again that complexity always comes from less complexity and not the other way around.

Everything we know on this planet has been created or has evolved from simpler components. The evolution of the computer has taken that route. Men have evolved from less intelligent versions and them from simpler life forms and forever back to the beginning of life.

There is no need for intelligence to have directed that process. And there is no evidence that it has.

Cris
 
Im a roman catholic christian, know the scriptures and doctrines of our faith, then youll know my belief, but you wouldnt know it in a sudden, it takes faith and perseverance before understanding the church of Christ. The true church of Christ founded by peter himself with authority of Jesus is the universal church. Priest go to school for 8 years, there are scholars, in addition to years of education in catechism, history, and science. BY THE WAY, ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WE USES PURE SCIENCE TO INVESTIGATE MIRACLES. THATS WHY AS A CATECHIST TEACHER, WE ARE TAUGHT TO ACCEPT ALL FIELDS OF SCIENTIFIC FACTS, BECAUSE FACT DOESNT CONTRADICT WITH TRUTH (JESUS). I AM OPEN TO SCIENTIFIC FACTS, BUT NOT TO THEORIES WITHOUT EVIDENCE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

(By the way there are many who claims they are the true church of christ, they are liars, they only split from us because during the reformation, King Henry wanted divorce his wife, he wanted the church to give him perimission to break the promise he made to God "Till death do us part" but the church wouldnt let him, so he got Martin Luther, a confused catholic monk (historicaly speaking" and stole the bible from us, then made his own and printed it, and thats where "Lutherans and Protestants" people who protest under Martin Luther are born. If Martin Luther were born today, he would have got sued for printing a book (bible) that dont belong to him, he STOLE IT from the catholic church WITHOUT PERMISSION of the rightfull owner, stealing is a sin, then he published "Only in faith alone a man is saved" thats why today many protestants will say all u need to do is accept Jesus in your heart and believe and thats it, u will enter heaven, when the truth is opposite, fact is the bible says "faith w/out works is dead". Ever since the reformation there are millions of death accounted for both churches.

AT THE END, it is written in revelation that many will say "Lord Lord didnt i cast out evil in your name? Let me enter the kingdom", Jesus then said "Depart from me u evil doers, hungry u didnt feedme, lonely u didnt comfort me, etc whatever u do to the least of my brothers u do unto me", thats what happened to the so called christians now who thinks because they do some healing, especiually the televangelist, who does slaying of the spirit claiming to expell demons, YET DOESNT LIFT A FINGER AND SPEND TIME IN DYING AFRICA OR POOR INDIA.
 
Originally posted by Cris
Muscleman,



We have yet to develop any truly intelligent machines although the development of AI research has been rapidly increasing its pace these past few years. Regular book stores now have whole shelves devoted to AI development, hmm, well at least here in Silicon Valley. The fastest CPU chips are not yet capable of any real intelligence. But if Moore’s law holds firm as it has since the mid 1940s then we should see some significantly intelligent machines within the next few years. Human equivalent intelligence should be possible by around 2012 depending on software development progress. The hardware should certainly have sufficient power by then. Beyond that time machines should begin to exceed human intelligence and are likely to become the dominant intelligence on the planet soon after and will continue to increase their intelligence.

The future of human evolution then becomes somewhat hazy. Even the survival of the human race is in doubt. With biogenetic engineering we are beginning to take control of our own evolution, i.e. slow adaptations and mutations will be replaced with planned genetic choices. However, massive increases in biological based intelligence is highly unlikely to occur at anywhere near the same pace as machine intelligence. Our best hope of survival is most likely to use technology to enhance ourselves by upgrading our slow biological based brains to the faster and vastly more powerful electronic brains. In that way we would be able to compete and keep up with the intelligent machines. Discarding our frail and error prone biological bodies would likely occur at the same time. This is the birth of Robosapiens.

I can’t see that the fantasies of gods and spirits have any relevance now and I can’t see them having any relevance in our foreseeable future.

While you may not believe the sequence above, I’m afraid that many working in technology see it as inevitable and I’m part of making it happen. However, the creation of entities that exceed our own intelligence demonstrates once again that complexity always comes from less complexity and not the other way around.

Everything we know on this planet has been created or has evolved from simpler components. The evolution of the computer has taken that route. Men have evolved from less intelligent versions and them from simpler life forms and forever back to the beginning of life.

There is no need for intelligence to have directed that process. And there is no evidence that it has.

Cris


How can you say there is no evidence that intelligence have directed such process, meanwhile human intelligence made such process happen?


Again, I am open to any scientific hard facts. I read what you said, and you even admit by the years 2012 it is possible that we can create human intelligence, also some may claim in the future it is possible to create a life form, computer intelligence I believe is likely, creating a life form? Impossible, currently in science, and in the future my belief because only God (wisdom, higher intelligence) creates life form. I MADE A VOW HERE THAT I WILL NOT BREAK, THE DAY SCIENTIST CAN CREATE A LIFE FORM IS THE DAY I WILL BECOME ATHEIST, PERIOD, I DONT CARE IF THEY LABEL WHATS WITHIN A CELL AND CALLS IT "RNA" OR "DNA" OR "NBA" OR "YMCA", ANYONE CAN DO THAT, MAYBE EVEN REPLICATE PARTS OF IT, JUST AS WEHN I OPEN MY STEREO COMPONENTS I CAN LABEL WHATS INSIDE IT AND REPLICATE THE WIRES BY MAKING MY OWN, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN I CAN CREATE A STEREO.


Cris, both, young and old, in the book of Revelation are predicted to fall in the snares of the demon and Im aware of that, why? Because I am one of them, I am just like you, you dont believe in God, meanwhile my immoral actions makes my belief in God worth nothing. INDEED lUCIFER ATTEMPTED TO TAKE GOD'S PLACE AND WAS SUCCESFULL FOR A WHiLE (people are succesfull in aborting kids in the womb, rationalizing its not human but a blob of tissue, cloning, replicating parts that makes up a cell, etc.) BUT GOD CAST HIM OFF TO HELL TOGETHER WITH HIS FOLLOWERS, AND TILL THIS DAY HIS SPIRIT LIVES AND IS USING YOU GUYS (Many atheist will say there is no God and our intelligence can do all things, we can create life forms and do things all by ourselves, God is not needed and I dont see why we should believe in God). but you know, I SEE THAT YOUR NOT SO BLIND AFTER ALL, YOU DO REALIZE THAT THE HUMAN RACE IS IN THE PEAK OF DANGER, AND YOUR NOT ALONE BECAUSE I SEE THAT TOO, AND GOOD JUDGMENT PEOPLE.

In fact I really doubt it if our economy will always be as good as today, stocks are going down the whole world, and America is slowly as well. I believe that America, or a world under ONE CURRENCY will come about, and that will be the prophesy of the book of Revelation called "Babylon the great" but a time will come when it will crash down, and the whole world will keep its distance in fear and trembling what will they do next?
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
"In fact today sunday which is a week-end is the day or rest, football day, etc. "

You realize that we live in a christian society. Most of our laws are based on biblical refernces. Puritans, lutherins, protestants, all sects of christians, and many others came directly from the bible and those were the people that founded our nation. It would be rather strange if we found ourselves with budist laws, being a predominately christian nation.

"Whether your christians or not, you abide by this law. "

I definately don't, the military doesn't, not to mention sunday isn't at the same time for the whole world. Obviously god wasn't such a good observer, he didn't even notice that there were different time zones!

LISTEN FRENCHENEEZ THE LIAR, INDEED THE WORLD HAVE DIFFERENT TIME ZONES, BUT THE FACT IS THE WHOLE WORLD ABIDES TO 7 TOTAL DAYS, OK? GO TO CHINA, THEY HAVE 7 DIFFERENT DAYS, THOUGH IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGE AND TIME ZONE, IT MAYBE NIGHT HERE MEANWHILE DAYLIGHT THERE, AND DONT EVEN SAY CHINA IS CHRISTIAN DOMINANT BECAUSE IT IS NOT BUT IS COMMUNIST, BOTTOM LINE IS 7 TOTAL DAYS GET IT, WHOEVER MENTIONED MILITARY TIME ZONE? 7 TOTAL DAYS, GET IT? DO YOU KNOW WHAT DAYS MEAN? OR DID U HAVE THAT CONFUSE WITH TIME? AND U WONDER WHY I TYPE IN CAPS AND YELL AND CALL YOU A LIAR?
 
Muscleman,

Did you not read those dictionary definitions on faith? Try again.

You well understand how faith can be used in one sense but you've failed to understand how it is used in philosophy.

The debate between FAITH and REASON is very old and if you want to continue to debate these issues you should attempt to understand the basics.

Theologians know there is no proof for the existence of gods or spirits; otherwise they could always quote REASON as a basis for their beliefs. REASON uses logic, facts, evidence, and proofs. Religions CANNOT use any of these factors since there is no evidence, facts or proofs for their claims. They can only base their beliefs on what they have come to call FAITH. In your terms this can be called BLIND FAITH.

In such a debate FAITH means belief without a factual basis.

The essential claim for the validity of FAITH in this respect is that proofs and evidence are not necessary and that a god will reveal himself in other ways.

You need to get past the trivial aspects of faith, such as faith in one’s doctor, or car mechanic, and move onto the essential arguments of philosophy; the key debate between FAITH and REASON. You are not there yet. And it is not worth debating with you on this any further until you have matured a lot more in your debating skills.

The essential argument rests on an understanding of epistemology, e.g. how it is that we determine knowledge? The non-believer insists on evidence as the primary basis for knowledge whereas the religionist states that evidence is not needed and pure FAITH is justification for claiming that the existence of a god can be considered true knowledge. The two sides bitterly disagree and have done so for millennia.

You should also stop claiming there are proofs for gods and spirits. There aren’t any and any serious and experienced theologian well knows that. If any evidence for the existence of, say the Christian god ever appeared then you can be sure that the pope would be screaming this on every TV and radio station in the world. This would be the greatest event in the history of mankind. It hasn’t occurred yet so you can be sure there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of that god. So please please don’t waste time trying to claim there is evidence for your god.

Cris
 
Muscleman,

I have no belief in anything the bible says but if we are to survive then I believe we must take control and responsibility of our own future.

This link is the basic very well known article that describes the sigularity. A point at which technology advancements expand so rapidly that superintelligence is created and it becomes impossible to predict anything beyond that time.

The article was written in 1993 and predicts such an event within 30 years.

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/vinge/vinge-sing.html

The article was sponsored by NASA and written by Vernor Vinge who I believe is professor of mathematics at San Diego State University.

For what it's worth I guess we might indeed agree that the human race is in some danger. But our approaches to this conclusion are opposites. Curious.

Cris
 
Originally posted by Cris
Muscleman,


Theologians know there is no proof for the existence of gods or spirits; otherwise they could always quote REASON as a basis for their beliefs. REASON uses logic, facts, evidence, and proofs. Religions CANNOT use any of these factors since there is no evidence, facts or proofs for their claims. They can only base their beliefs on what they have come to call FAITH. In your terms this can be called BLIND FAITH.

In such a debate FAITH means belief without a factual basis.

The essential claim for the validity of FAITH in this respect is that proofs and evidence are not necessary and that a god will reveal himself in other ways.

You need to get past the trivial aspects of faith, such as faith in one’s doctor, or car mechanic, and move onto the essential arguments of philosophy; the key debate between FAITH and REASON. You are not there yet. And it is not worth debating with you on this any further until you have matured a lot more in your debating skills.

The essential argument rests on an understanding of epistemology, e.g. how it is that we determine knowledge? The non-believer insists on evidence as the primary basis for knowledge whereas the religionist states that evidence is not needed and pure FAITH is justification for claiming that the existence of a god can be considered true knowledge. The two sides bitterly disagree and have done so for millennia.

You should also stop claiming there are proofs for gods and spirits. There aren’t any and any serious and experienced theologian well knows that. If any evidence for the existence of, say the Christian god ever appeared then you can be sure that the pope would be screaming this on every TV and radio station in the world. This would be the greatest event in the history of mankind. It hasn’t occurred yet so you can be sure there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of that god. So please please don’t waste time trying to claim there is evidence for your god.

Cris

Wait wait wait,, your telling me that theologians and religionist alike accepted that there is no proof of God? who are this so-called religionist and theologians? Who are these so called religionist and faith and reason debates, I never heard of it.

I AM A CATECHIST TEACHER, AND I WENT 2 YEARS IN MY FIELD, I HAVE NEVER EVER HEARD ONE OF MY INSTRUCTORS SAID "THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD, THEREFORE YOU ARE AL DELUSIONAL", IF THERES SOME PEOPLE I KNOW WHO ACCEPTED THAT THERE IS NO PROOF OF THEIR CLAIM, THEN IT IS ATHEIST WHO BY ADMITTANCE CANNOT PROVE GOD IS A MYTH. ST. THOMAS OF AQUINAS HAVE PROOF OF GOD, HAVE U HEARD OF THE 5 WAYS? THERE ARE OTHER THEOLOGIANS WHO STRESSED STRONG SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD, THERE ARE EVEN SKEPTIC INVESTIGATORS ALLOWED TO EXAMINE MIRACLES, ONE BEING THE SHROUD OF TURIN, HALF GENUINE AND HALF FAKE, WHICH SOME PARTS OF IT WAS ADDED BY BISHOPS OVER THE YEARS AND ITS CARBON DATING DIDNT MATCH THE CLAIM OF ITS OCCURENCE, BUT IT IS STILL A MYSTERY HOW THE FACE OF JESUS GOT THERE.

WHY SHOULD I LIE AND SAY THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD? BECAUSE U WANT ME TOO? WHO ARE YOU? YOU SHOULD STOP MAKING CLAIM GOD IS A MYTH BECAUSE BY ADMITTANCE YOU CANNOT PROVE HE IS A MYTH, PERIOD.

WHERE DO YOU LIVE? MARS? IF YOU LIVE IN PLANET EARTH, YOU SHOULD KNOW THE WORD FAITH IS USED IN MANY ASPECTS, HAVE U SEEN CHARLIES ANGELS THE MOVIE? WHEN AT THE END OF THE MOVIE, THE ANGELS SAID "WHY DONT YOU COME HERE CHARLIE SO WELL KNOW YOU REALLY EXIST", THEN CHARLIE SAID "FAITH ANGELS, HAVE FAITH", AND TRUST ME, THAT MOVIE IS FAR FROM BEING RELIGIOUS. EVERYWHERE U GO U HEAR PEOPLE SAY "I HAVE FAITH IN YOU" SOME MAY EVEN SAY " I HAVE FAITH 49'S WILL WIN THIS YEAR", WELL DOES IT MEAN 49'ERS IS A MYTH? WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD, WHERE R U AT MAN? MARS?



-What is Faith? From Webster –

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions.

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust.

3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs.



Another misconception atheist use as an attack against Christianity is the word “Faith”. Faith= Trust; loyalty; belief on something without a need of proof; reliance; pledged word. For example, a close family friend approached you and asked if she can borrow your car for 2 days and promised to return it back, however, she gave you her credit card incase if the car gets totally wrecked you can take all the money out of her bank and keep it to replace your car. But because you have “faith” in her, you just told her “its ok, you don’t need to give me your credit card, you’re my best friend and a good driver for many years now and I know you’ll return the car on time safely, I trust you”. That’s faith. People use faith in many aspects in life. People put faith in family and friends, neighbors, experts, etc. We even put faith in science, otherwise if no one does, then people will not listen to it, will give no support and donation to it, therefore science wouldn’t exist today. Here’s another example of faith; when you buy a Toyota Truck, since your not a mechanic, you have no idea how the engine works, but you have faith in the car that it will take you places, it has a good reputation, many people testified that Toyota trucks have engine that last forever, even most mechanics recommend Toyota, because of their testimony, you put faith in Toyota trucks and rely on it, even if you have no clue how the engine works. And when your car breaks down, you take the car to them and get it fixed, and because that’s their profession, you have faith that they will get the job done. I can probably set over 100 more examples of faith. (By the way, you don’t call mechanics, brain surgeons, God, biochemist, and computer engineers “the magicians”, just because of the knowledge you don’t have.)
Atheist meanwhile got the word “faith” mixed up with “myth’. They think that to have faith on something is to believe on myths. How strange. So if I have faith in family and friends, it means that they are myths? Their own definition of faith is “belief on something that cannot be proven; in other words, “Faith=belief on myths and non-existence”. Atheists are stupid like that; most of them are so ignorant. Hey cone heads! Yeah I’m talking to you atheist people, to have faith is to believe on something without a need of proof because of loyalty and reliance. Some may even put faith in mythical U.F.O’s, they may want or may not want proof, this may not even be proven at all! Or put faith in mythical Zeus the Greek god, you may want or may not want proof, but you can have faith in that as well, even if it’s existence have no proof thus making it a ‘myth’, your still entitled to that mythical belief, you can be that extremely loyal (to believe on something that have no proof, such as toothfairy and atheism). But once again, faith is NOT to believe on something that cannot be proven, but belief on something that you need no proof of because of loyalty and reliance. Stupid atheist kids… Whether God’s love is proven or not, you believe in Him because you trust Him, that’s what faith is. Confused or not, in good times and in bad, you remain loyal and faithful. Christianity requires faith because of its deep mystery each individual cannot comprehend, from the sacraments, Holy Trinity, laws and tradition, to the commandments and canonized books, faith doesn’t mean that God and religion cannot be proven.


Faith may also be linked in what has no proof, but such faith is called "BLIND FAITH" and it is linked to cults, fake christians, or mentally deranged peeps who believes in toothfairy, or in some case, atheism which has no proof as well.
 
Muscleman,

We have spoken here about life and the creation of life, but no one has really defined what is meant by life. The assumption is, of course, biological life, but I am quite certain that with computer based intelligence around the corner we will need to redefine what we mean by life.

Some say that a computer virus is a form of life, since it feeds off the metabolism of its host computer, it procreates by reproducing itself, and it deliberately seeks other hosts to infest. It is in every sense of the term a form of primitive independent life. If true then it says something about the human race that the first form of life we create is malignant.

For me the indication of a machine based life form is when a machine becomes self-aware. I have little doubt this will happen fairly soon.

While we may still not be able to produce a biological based cell, the creation of an intelligence that rivals and exceeds humans must be more significant.

Does that change your outlook in any way?

Cris
 
Muscleman,

Show a single verified scientific proof for the existence of a god.

Religionists claim proof of a god based on faith not on scientific proofs. Atheists argue that faith based proofs are not real proofs.

The arugument is that you are claiming proofs on what atheists say is an invalid basis. And atheists then request that you prove your claims based on scientific evidence. And you never do.

The argument continues.
 
Originally posted by Cris
Muscleman,

Show a single verified scientific proof for the existence of a god.

Religionists claim proof of a god based on faith not on scientific proofs. Atheists argue that faith based proofs are not real proofs.

The arugument is that you are claiming proofs on what atheists say is an invalid basis. And atheists then request that you prove your claims based on scientific evidence. And you never do.

The argument continues.

Who are this so-called religionist? Who are you talking about? I am a catechist teacher and I have been a strong christian all my life and I have never heard in my teachers saying "Guys, there is no proof of God, just have faith ok? Be delusional and live a blind faith like the atheist". St. Thomas Aquinas who live over 400 years ago have 5 ways of proof of god, it is philosophical for that is the best they can ever come about with at the time.
Why are you putting words in my mouth and the church over and over and over and over again? You are a replica of Frencheneez, having both of her hands covering her ears and saying "You have no proof of God, you have no proof of God" over and over again and falsely accusing me of saying it, what a weirdo. Again, FAITH IS APPLIED IN EVERY ASPECTS IN LIFE, FAITH SIMPLY MEANS LOYALTY AND TRUST WITHOUT THE NEED OF PROOF, IF MY MOM WILL ASK ME 50 DOLLARS, I HAVE FAITH THAT SHE WILL PAY ME BACK, I DONT NEED PROOF BECAUSE I TRUST MY MOTHER AND SHE NEVER PUT ME DOWN BEFORE, THAT IS FAITH, YOU GOT FAITH MIXED UP WITH "BELIEF ON MYTHS AND NON-EXISTENCE" IF THIS IS WHAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT FAITH ALL YOUR LIFE, THEN IM SORRY TO SAY THIS BUT YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO.


YOU WANT A SCIENTIFIC CASE FOR GOD? WELL HERE IT IS....Intelligence is the ONLY KNOWN CAUSE of ordered, complex, detailed, functioning design, a ordered design such as nature, this is a scientific case. Why scientific? Because it is observed, studied, and demonstrated to be A FACT. Got it? Chance is a lie, why a lie? Because a claim of chance must have proof of its possibility. There is no proof that life form can exist by natural means. Biological life form being defined as one with instinct, functioned, ordered and complex existence which also expires, in time dies. Through observation, study, and demonstration, not one scientist with all the modern technology and ALL THE NECESSARY IGNREDIENTS THAT MAKES UP A CELL CAN CREATE A LIVING CELL(amino acids, electrons, etc.), and again I donot speak for the future nore support the psychic hotline, the argument is current, therefore the evidence need to be current, period. If we argue in the future, then hope for evidence in the future, ok?
 
Also, read the book "The New Scientific Case for God's existence" By Mark Mahin. I have not posted even one of what is written in the book, it is for you to find out "Seek and you shall find". "Do not cast yur pearls to the pigs lest they will trample upon it" I felt I have cast too much pearls here already, I dont want to do more.
 
U know what, I assume you have me confused over ignorant christians who are so ignorant and cannot defend their faith that they will say "I have no proof of God but only have faith" I pity those so-called christians, I hope they meant what they said and didnt lie, I will be happy if theyre faith is really that strong, but i doubt it. There are very rare people who have that strong of a faith, very rare.
 
Muscleman,

YOU WANT A SCIENTIFIC CASE FOR GOD? WELL HERE IT IS....Intelligence is the ONLY KNOWN CAUSE of ordered, complex, detailed, functioning design, a ordered design such as nature, this is a scientific case Why scientific? Because it is observed, studied, and demonstrated to be A FACT.

1. Demonstrate how God created life.

2. List the names of those who have observed this.

3. Explain how you know this.

4. If everything complex and ordered must be created by intelligence then explain who or what created God. You must do this since you have stated - Intelligence is the ONLY KNOWN CAUSE of anything ordered and complex. And God must be more complex than anything else we know.

If you state that God was not created and is therefore an exception to your assertion that everything complex must be created by an intelligence then explain why, if you are prepared to make an exception, that complexity on earth could not have arisen from simpler natural processes such as evolution.

You have not offered a proof yet you have only made an assertion. The proof comes in the details.

I look forward to your detailed answers. You will need names, dates, places, and experimental data, preferably with photographs showing the entire process of life creation.

Cris
 
Back
Top