Creationism vs. science

"No it doesn't. It only arises with the question of the big bang. "

Do me a favor and give reasons for your ideas. Don't just plop your ideas down like they are some sort of "abosolute truth".

AND YES IT DOES. -The QUESTION- is what came before it?
What came before god? What came before the big bang?

WHAT DO YOU THINK CAME BEOFRE GOD, and WHY?

"All that means is they didn't know for sure, they only thought they did."

Thinking is like the ram of a computer, Knowing is like the hard drive. Knowing doesn't mean it is truth, it means you think it is truth. SO Knowing for sure is thinking something is a truth and be willing to bet your life on it.

"one can prove the existence of God"

Do it. I don't care if i believe you or not, if you say you can prove gods existence GO AHEAD. I have never heard anything before like that, so it would be interesting.

"but to prove it in a modern scientific way is impossible"

That idea is completely without base. Proving something in modern science is through observation. You can see me, hear me, touch me, therefore I am there, until we get holograms and transforcefields.

"I see no reason to doubt its credibility as far as my understanding of the book is concerned. "

So are you saying you believe in creation, adam and eve, and the stupid apple tree with the snake or whatever? And do you believe that god drowned the world because he hated us?

"When you say believe "in" the bible, what do you mean. "

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh,

What is wrong with YOU!?

"believe in" happens to be an English phrase. P-H-R-A-S-E. "believe in" means to trust or just plain believe. It is like i go into the school, i could say I go in the school.

Why do I have to give you an English lesson to get you to understand the letters that are coming out of your screen?

GOD (no pun intended) AHH- Bite me
 
Originally posted by Raithere
******Something quite beyond the perception and probably beyond the comprehension of any intelligence existing in our 4 dimensional MST.********

That is an interesting description, and quite wise, as you used the word "probably."

**Question**

Do you think that 'probably' the Absolute Truth may be intelligent, if of course it should exist.

*****Who are you? Bill Clinton?******

I'm sure there is a joke in there somewhere. :confused:

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
*****Do me a favor and give reasons for your ideas.*****

Simple, in all bonafide religous scriptures it is stated that God, The Supreme Being, is pure consciousness, spirit, without beginning, therefore without end.

*****Don't just plop your ideas down like they are some sort of "abosolute truth".*****

So you are comming round to the idea of an Absolute Truth, that is good.

*****What came before god? What came before the big bang?*****

How have you arrived at the conclusion that God is not eternal.

*****Knowing doesn't mean it is truth, it means you think it is truth.*****

So you only think you exist.
You only think fire will burn.

*****SO Knowing for sure is thinking something is a truth and be willing to bet your life on it.*****

Why would anyone want to bet their life on anything.

*****You can see me, hear me, touch me, therefore I am there,*****

That's good.
By utalising our senses and intelligence we can come to such conclusions, but there are still conclusions that cannot be reached by simply utalising our senses in such a way, but the conclusions are there nevertheless.
We therefore have to rely on our intelligence to perceive such things. This is why you need to understand the scriptures from the right authorities, in order to perceive God, the Supreme Intelligent Being. Modern science can only help us to understand the universe, and at best a minutely infinitesimaly, small, tiny, ever so insignificant part of it.

*****So are you saying you believe in creation, adam and eve, and the stupid apple tree with the snake or whatever? And do you believe that god drowned the world because he hated us?*****

Come on, i thought we had an understanding of mutual respect. :rolleyes:

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
**Question**

Do you think that 'probably' the Absolute Truth may be intelligent, if of course it should exist.

No, I think that probably the Absolute Truth is not intelligent if it indeed exists. Unless, of course it is intelligent because some of its components might be considered intelligent. But then, what's intelligence?

~Raithere
 
"in all bonafide religous scriptures "

How is a scripture proof?

"So you are comming round to the idea of an Absolute Truth, that is good."

what are you talking about?! I said that you shouldn't talk AS IF THEY ARE (meaning they are not) absolute truths.

"How have you arrived at the conclusion that God is not eternal."

Likewise, how have you arrived at the conclusion that God IS eternal?

"So you only think you exist.
You only think fire will burn. "

I know you are being sarcastic, but yes that is what i mean.

"Why would anyone want to bet their life on anything."

That is so frikking irrelevant, its a damn expression, can you understand that concept?

"Come on, i thought we had an understanding of mutual respect."

Yeah, me too, so shy are you avoiding the question?

I can tell you, I don't respect someone that takes the bible for truth. There is so much proof against it, you have to be very ill informed to believe it litterally.

I will discuss with you as long as you make sence, and your signal is breaking up (if you know what i mean).

Your talk of intelligence and knowledge is the most vauge arbitrary crap I've ever heard. SCRIPTURE IS NOT PROOF. Your religious mystiscism should have died out with the dragons and nymphs and goblins and the stork.

Do you believe in Santa clause?

Do you believe in the civil war of the USA? (serious question)

If you do, you can be dazzled by the FACT that there is more evidence for evolution than there is that the civil war happened.
 
Originally posted by Raithere
No, I think that probably the Absolute Truth is not intelligent if it indeed exists.

I fail to see how you could come to that conclusion.

Unless, of course it is intelligent because some of its components might be considered intelligent.

Or its components might be intelligent because of it has absolute intelligence.

But then, what's intelligence?

Probably knowledge and understanding of the Absolute Truth, if it indeed exists.

Love

Jan Arden.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
How is a scripture proof?

Since when do you need proof for reasons of ideas?

I know you are being sarcastic, but yes that is what i mean.

Why do you think i'm being sarcastic?
Do you think it sounds stupid?

Yeah, me too, so shy are you avoiding the question?

Because i don't regard it as a question, but a childish atempt at a put down.
As regards avoidance of questions, look through our posts and see how many questions you have avoided.

There is so much proof against it, you have to be very ill informed to believe it litterally.

I would think it very difficult to believe the bible "literally" as you say. I find the bible a very complex book at the best of times. It may or may not be acurate in its translation, and we know it has been tampered with (SJV) suit tastes. However, it still contains truth, which is its point.

If you do, you can be dazzled by the FACT that there is more evidence for evolution than there is that the civil war happened.

Is "evolution of the species" even a scientific concepts, nevermind fact?

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
I fail to see how you could come to that conclusion.

Quite simply, I see no evidence of intelligence anywhere except that which has evolved on this planet. I don't see any reason to believe that the Universe was intelligently designed or that events are being orchestrated by some overriding intellect. In fact, I find that there is more evidence against it... not to mention the logical conundrums that the concept evokes. God, which is what we are talking about here, I find to be a fairly useless and unnecessary concept as far as explaining the Universe goes. It reveals more about human insecurities, fears, and needs than it does about the working order of the Universe.

Or its components might be intelligent because of it has absolute intelligence.

Would that mean all of it's components are intelligent.

Probably knowledge and understanding of the Absolute Truth, if it indeed exists.

Knowledge and understanding, or the capacity for it?

~Raithere
 
Originally posted by Raithere
I see no evidence of intelligence anywhere except that which has evolved on this planet.

So, can you explain to me the nature of the conscious-self, and also where it came from??

Would that mean all of it's components are intelligent.

I would imagine all components would come about due to the Will of the Absolute Truth, so it would be at ITS descretion.

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
So, can you explain to me the nature of the conscious-self, and also where it came from??

Nope... but neither can anyone else. At least not with any demonstrable veracity.
Of course, if you just want reasoned or even unreasoned hypotheses, I have a plethora of them.

I would imagine...

I imagine it differently.

~Raithere
 
Originally posted by Raithere
Nope...

Maybe the conscious-self needs to be understood, in order to perceive the Absolute Truth?

Of course, if you just want reasoned or even unreasoned hypotheses, I have a plethora of them.

If any of them had any credibility, i'm sure you would have used them.

I imagine it differently.

Imagination..............a great tool, wouldn't you say? ;)

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Maybe the conscious-self needs to be understood, in order to perceive the Absolute Truth?

I don't know about necessity but I would bet that as we advance towards understanding one the other will also come into focus.

If any of them had any credibility, i'm sure you would have used them.

It depends on what you mean by credibility. I do believe some of them are far more well reasoned than others... and thus more credible.
However, that does not constitute proof.

Imagination..............a great tool, wouldn't you say?

A most excellent one.

~Raithere
 
Jan:

you use "knowledge", "intelligence", and "absolute truth" in ways that are very vauge. They sound unreal. Im just saying you could be more clear.

"Since when do you need proof for reasons of ideas?"

Oh come on, i seriously don't think you need that answered :bugeye:

"Because i don't regard it as a question, but a childish atempt at a put down."

thats super-excellent what you regard it as, It was a serious question.

"However, it still contains truth, which is its point. "

This is one of those mystical vauge sentences. How do you know it contains truth? You talk like you know everything.

"Is "evolution of the species" even a scientific concepts, nevermind fact? "

The evolution of species is a VERY well established scientific concept, not to MENTION that it is considered a fact. But i did not say it was fact, i said it has mucho evidence for it and 0 evidence against it. It is taught in all schools in the US, and only religious people dispute it, never winning for lack of evidence.

Is the civil war an idea, nevermind fact?
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
...you use "knowledge", "intelligence", and "absolute truth" in ways that are very vauge.

Give an example.

They sound unreal.Im just saying you could be more clear.

I will try to be.

Oh come on, i seriously don't think you need that answered.

Yes i do.

So are you saying you believe in creation,

Yes.

adam and eve,

I believe they existed.

and the stupid apple tree with the snake or whatever?

The "apple tree" or fruit tree of some kind, and the serpent, i believe to be true, yes.

And do you believe that god drowned the world because he hated us?

No.

How do you know it contains truth?

Are there not historical, geneological and philosophical truths, contained within it, just for starters?

You talk like you know everything.

How so?
Oh don't bother answering, i already know!!! :rolleyes:

The evolution of species is a VERY well established scientific concept, not to MENTION that it is considered a fact.

For it to be a proper scientific concept, it would have to be described in terms of experience, would it not?
So obviously there are conditions which must be met...

1) Give examples of evolutionary transitions in which one species changes into another.

2) Specify the mechanism by which one species could change into another.

3) Specify the actual course of evolution in the past.
Which specific forms gave rise to which specific new forms?

Before you use the example of new strains of bacteria more resistant to anti-biotics, or DDT-resistant mosquitoes, don't, because that is not evidence that new species may appear.

A simple reply would suffice.

Is the civil war an idea, nevermind fact?

The civil war happened, evolution of the species didn't, work that out for yourself. :D

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Hmm, it didn't post either of what I wrote, good thing i saved it.

Jan:
"Give an example. "

"I would imagine all components would come about due to the Will of the Absolute Truth, so it would be at ITS descretion. "

There you go

"Yes i do."

Fine: If you give a reason, why should I believe it? The way you convince me that your idea has some premise is if you give evidence for it. If you give no evidence than it could be true, yes, but it could also be false. Evidence helps prove your point, you don't have it, then noone will believe you.

"I believe they existed. " "The "apple tree" or fruit tree of some kind, and the serpent, i believe to be true, yes."

Why? As in evidence why. And why did god put the tree there if he knew adam and eve would eat from it? God is all knowing right?

Do you believe that God drowned the world? And if so, why do you think he did it?

"Are there not historical, geneological and philosophical truths, contained within it, just for starters? "

First of all, what is a philosophical truth? Second of all, I could write a book with all these things in it, and still tell a lie, or be wrong, could i not? What evidence is there for this book to be ALL true?

"How so?"

Well this is in your post right here: "The civil war happened, evolution of the species didn't"

Thank you all knowing Jan, this is where you think you know everything. Oh by the way i said you THINK you know everything, NOT you do know everything. Just to clarify for the sake of your sarcastic comment and little retarded sarcastic face thingy.


"For it to be a proper scientific concept, it would have to be described in terms of experience, would it not?"

No it would not. A scientific theory must have evidence, not neccesarily experience. We have to experience the evidence only. We do not have to experience the phenomehnon.

"1) Give examples of evolutionary transitions in which one species changes into another. "

Species change slowly im sure you have heard. I am no expert on evolution, but I will say that one famous change was from a primate to a human. More would be from a slug to a snail. These are examples, all this question calls for. I would use the resistant bacteria as an example but you seem not to like it.

"2) Specify the mechanism by which one species could change into another."

Genetic mutation is usually the way a species would change, for the good or for the bad. Natural selection is the mechenism for actual evolution. When anything that reproduces nonsexually, the DNA is altered in copying defects that arise all over. Every one of the billons of cells in your body have to reproduce nonsexually in this way.

The many cells in your body contain ALMOST the exact same DNA as all the rest. A few would have mutations that arrise from defects in copying, or defects before copying like from radiation damage. Cancer cells are cells that have had mutation beyond the level of harmlessness. The cancer starts out as one cell and reproduces to create many millions of cells very similar to the original cancer cell.

In this way, single celled organisms change over a long period of time to create DNA strands that are significantly different from the original. "Significant" is an opinion, so is the line between species at the level of DNA.

Natural selection is the process of one of the mutations being more fit for the environment, and the other mutation being less fit for the environment. One survives to reproduce, and one does not. The one that did not survive to reproduce will become extinct and never show its face again. This is why we do not have all the links from the begging to the end still non-extinct and alive now. The world's environment has changed so much that some creatures would not be able to survive in it anymore.

Ill put question three in a different post since you asked for the course of evolution, a long process.

"The civil war happened, evolution of the species didn't, work that out for yourself."

As I might have said before, I don't exactly appreciate blatent critisism without proof. What proof do you have that the civil war happened (besides books, books arent proof, though they may contain proof)?

I believe that the civil war happened, but what evidence do we have? We have the cirumstancial evidence that everyone belives it happened and it is taught to have happened. We may have a couple civil war uniforms that could have been faked. Noone from that time is left alive. And we have battlements that could have been faked, and war record that could have been faked.

Bones of dinosaurs could not have been faked. It is my opinion that records of history that are from many sources hold true, but it is not proof.

Do you believe that dinosaurs existed? How bout the dodo bird?
Mamoth Elephants? Sabertooth tigers? How bout 10'000 year old Homoerectus?

Have you taken um... school? (sorry, but they teach about this stuff in school)

And have you taken Biology? By the way, what part of the world do you live in?
 
"3) Specify the actual course of evolution in the past.
Which specific forms gave rise to which specific new forms?"

I am not an expert, as i have said. I can give you what I think is a good approximation, but it might be good for you to look up on a site about that, although i think it might be hard to find.

Here is my approximation: I will start with the first complete living cell, because It would not apply to the question to give the theory on how life began. A Bacteria was just milling around in the primordial soup of early earth. It reproduces to create millions of other bacteria that, by now, have a range of very slightly different DNA make up. These bacteria have the ability to take crap from the water they are in and sunlight (what little there is underwater) and turn it into useful energy.

Some bacteria also form the ability to use particles in the water and gain energy from that. Some of these bacteria might loose the ability to gain energy from sunlight, but it doesn't matter, since, there is so much food in the water to use. These bacteria that eat form a waste substance that another bacteria has evolved to use for energy.

Lets give these bacteria names. Bac A is bacteria that uses sunlight, Bac B is bacteria that eats food in the water, and Bac C eats Bac C's waste. Bac B might take the Bac C into its cell membrane and let it eat food that Bac B harvests for it. In this way they mutually gain an advantage. This is the way mitochondria evolved into cells. Mitochondria is Bac C. Some of these bacteriae form groups that act as predators to eat other bacteria. The cells in the groups may have strings of proteins that attach the cells to their fellow cell mates (heh heh). Lets call these groups Cooperative-Cellular Structure or CCS A. The bacteriae of the CCS A evolve to become specialized in some way to help the CCS as a whole do better, thus allowing the cells in the Structure do better.

Both Bac A and Bac C cells form these groups, making the plant groups and the animal groups. Plant groups use sunlight to gain energy, while animal groups eat other cells to gain energy. These animal structures may evolve to attack other animal and plant structures. Both animal and plant structures may evolve cells which possese cillia that can be used to propell the structure away from MCSs that might eat it, Bateria that might rip it apart, or toward food it wants to eat.

Another way these groups could form is that a Cell would evolve to reproduce a couple different types of cells. I do not know exactly how this would work, but I can imagine the "stem" cell to have a couple separate DNA strands. These different cells would make up the specialization of the structure. These Multi-Cellular-Structures, or MCSs, would reproduce in a way im not quite sure of, but it could be that they secrete the stem cell, which would later turn into the seed of a plant. And the secreted stem cell might have been the early sperm, and other cells accpted the stem cell, ate it and accidently took its DNA into its nucleus. The DNAs combined (genetic engineering does this, although i don't know how) and sexual reproduction was born (no pun intended).

Many uneaten food particles and waste from larger sources may land on the ocean floor. As readily available food is depleted, plant structures might start living on the ocean floor. After a while, the cell might evolve cells that are good at taking in food and plant itself in one spot with the cells that take in food on the bottom, thus forming roots.

Animal Structures might evolve little protrusions of cells that can wiggle, forming fins, flippers, or tentacles. These small protrusions would evolve over time to be larger and larger to form into a full tail, fin, flipper, or tentacle.

As the need for plants to be stable and to have a protection for their stationary bodies, the plant cells evolved walls. Animal cells needed to be flexible in order to move so they didn't evolve walls.

The plant MCSs created Oxygen from CO2, so after a couple hundred million years, the atmosphere had a bit of Oxygen in it and Some animal MCSs evolved a way to use the oxygen to their benifit. Animal MCSs also developed many different sea forms such as shells, antenna, mouthes, appendages, eyes, ears, smells, and touch.

Plants formed that would allow for only soaking of water every so often, when the ties come in. These plants would survive better if they took in water through the ground along with the minerals in the ground. Eventually, Plants that could take in water through roots became the plants out of water. Eventually some of these plants lost their protection from osmosis death (the rupture of cells due to water potential differences, take biology). This is what happens when you flood some plants, they die of osmosis. Plants evolved leaves and flowers to capture sunlight and make it into energy better. Wood was evolved because plants that held many more leaves and captured sunlight better, survived better. Trunks also kept the plant from being eaten.

Arthropods evolved underwater along with many other things, and these crawled on land easily since they didn't need water as a neccesity. They evolved into things like spiders and insects. The ground insects evolved wings that could help them hop far, until the wings evolved enough so that the bug could actually fly with them.

The Multi-cellular Structures evolved simple brains that would help them deduce a situation and to act better than they would through simple stimuli. As these brains got bigger and better, organisms came about.

Amphibians formed that could live in water or on land for a short time. In time the anphibians became more and more attached the the land. The amphibians evolved a tough skin to keep the sunlight from damaging, thus turning into reptiles. These reptiles also formed wings like the arthropod did, evolving into birds. The Reptiles also grew into what we now know as dinosaurs. Some reptiles evolved fur that kept them warm through winters and the birds evolved feather for the same purpose. These fur-bearing reptiles and the feather bearing birds had not only a protection from cold, but had protection from the sun, so their skin got softer for ease of movement, and conservation of energy needed to move.

Different species of similar creatures, for example the black mamba snake and the garder snake, are examples of genetic mutation and differences to cope with different environments.

WELL, you asked for it.:D That is my rendition of evolution.
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Jan:
"Give an example. "

"I would imagine all components would come about due to the Will of the Absolute Truth, so it would be at ITS descretion. "

There you go

Apart from use of the words "i imagine," what is so vague about that?

"Yes i do."

Fine: If you give a reason, why should I believe it?

It doesn't matter whether you believe or not.

The way you convince me that your idea has some premise is if you give evidence for it.

Why should i want to convince you, i'm convinced, and thats what matters.

If you give no evidence than it could be true, yes, but it could also be false.

There are some things which are beyond empirical evidence, therefore you have to use your intelligence to decide.

……then noone will believe you.

You seem hung up on wanting people to believe you. It really doesn't matter, try and grasp that point. There are so many things we know, which there is no evidence for.

Free up you mind dude, emancipate yourself from mental slavery. ;)

Why? As in evidence why.

I don’t think there is any evidence, but I see no reason not to believe, after all what’s so hard to believe about a fruit tree, a serpent, and two people somewhere in Iran?

And why did god put the tree there if he knew adam and eve would eat from it?

So that Adam could make the choice.

God is all knowing right?

Yes.


First of all, what is a philosophical truth?

A philosophy which is true.

Second of all, I could write a book with all these things in it,

I don’t think you could.

What evidence is there for this book to be ALL true?

Truth is self-evident. Can you present evidence of anything which is truth? Can you present evidence that you have been unhappy in the past?

Just to clarify for the sake of your sarcastic comment and little retarded sarcastic face thingy.

Frencheez, I like you, I think you are a straightforward and funny guy. :)

No it would not. A scientific theory must have evidence, not neccesarily experience. We have to experience the evidence only. We do not have to experience the phenomehnon.

“Science is literally knowledge, but more usually denotes a systematic and orderly arrangement of knowledge.”

“……science embraces those branches of knowledge of which the subject-matter is either ultimate principles, or facts as explained by principles or laws thus arranged in natural order.”

There still has to be some experience of existing principles and laws, for the theory to have some merit, or it should not be considered a fact.

"1) Give examples of evolutionary transitions in which one species changes into another. "

one famous change was from a primate to a human.

That is a fantastic statement.
Have you have seen one species change into another?
Are there any fossil records which give direct evidence of one species changing into another.
This is all I want to know.

I would use the resistant bacteria as an example but you seem not to like it.

That example would be useless as it is not evidence that new species may appear in time.

"2) Specify the mechanism by which one species could change into another."

Genetic mutation is usually the way a species would change,

Since genes only control details in biological form, a genetic mutation, or change in the genetic code, only produces “variations” within the species, I am only interested in examples regarding changes of one species into another.
Also, where is the evidence that all the information in genes governs all aspects of biological form?
If you have none, would you not think it illogical to suppose that a change in the genetic info could give rise to all possible variations in biological form?

I believe that the civil war happened, but what evidence do we have?

Why do we need evidence?
Either you believe or you don’t, it only matters to you.

Do you believe that dinosaurs existed? How bout the dodo bird?

It is of no concern to me, but as far as I can see, they did exist.

Have you taken um... school? (sorry, but they teach about this stuff in school)

I used to like you, but I don’t anymore! :mad:

And have you taken Biology?

No.

By the way, what part of the world do you live in?

A little place called Europe. :)

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
"what is so vague about that? "

You leave our the parts when "the absolute truth" was a sentient being (a being that can make desisions....). There is not only one absolute truth, im sure, and by definition of a proof, we can never be absolutely sure that we know any absolute truths, we can only be mostly sure.

"It doesn't matter whether you believe or not. "

Sorry missy, if it didn't matter neither you nor I would be discussing it. If you don't care what I believe what is the point of talking about god to ME?

"i'm convinced, and thats what matters."

Insane people are convinced of many insane things. Are we searching for truth, or are we searching for a superficial reason for living?

"therefore you have to use your intelligence to decide. "

My intelligence thrives on information; if you give me none, my intelligence can not work.

"There are so many things we know, which there is no evidence for. "

Name two

"after all what’s so hard to believe about a fruit tree, a serpent, and two people somewhere in Iran? "

the fruit tree is not the problem. The fruit that grants wisdom is the problem. Another problem is that the Amighty God has a cow about someone whom he can easily change eating a fruit he can easily replace.

"A philosophy which is true."

great, a definition with the root word in it. Don't become a dicitionary analysist, K? Give me an example of a true philosophy. In my experience, philosophies are like opinions.

-God is all knowing right? -

"Yes. "

Given that this is the case, why would he get angry when adam eats the apple? He already know beforehand that he would!!!

--Second of all, I could write a book with all these things in it,--

"I don’t think you could."

I could write a book that includes a biography of lincoln (historical) and lincoln's family (geneological), and then copy one of those "true" philosophies from the bible. Then it would contain the three things you like. All I have to do now is put in a bunch of lies and WAH LA. The bible.

-one famous change was from a primate to a human. -
"That is a fantastic statement. "

Dont tell me you haven't heard it before!

"Are there any fossil records which give direct evidence of one species changing into another. "

Youd be surprised to find that there are thousands of fossil records that indicate just that. Im no expert, but thta is the main use of fossils.

-I would use the resistant bacteria as an example but you seem not to like it.-

"That example would be useless as it is not evidence that new species may appear in time. "

How so?

"or change in the genetic code, only produces “variations” within the species, I am only interested in examples regarding changes of one species into another. "

Wow, you understand more than I thought. I can use this to explain the transition from one species to another. These tini varations are magnified by the length of time. Every generation produces its own tini variations. Some variations die because they suck. Other variations live becaues they are better. The small variation from one generation to another may become a relatively large change in a thousand generations.

"Either you believe or you don’t, it only matters to you."

I understand that we have a difference in views on the importants of evidence and the importance of convincing other people of your view. I KNOW that if you don't convince anyone of your view, your view will die out, unless of course people spontaniously come to the same conclusion as you do.

"Also, where is the evidence that all the information in genes governs all aspects of biological form?"

Taking biology would be helpful to you. I can't explain 500 years of biological science to you very well here even if i WAS an expert, which i am not.

I thought you didn't care about evidence? Only what you believe matters, right? Well ill tell you anyway. This could be considered evidence: each animal we have discovered has a certain amount of the same DNA and some parts that are different. The usual difference is less than 5%. Monkeys and humans share almost Identical (99.9% similar) DNA, yet humans and mice share only about 98% similar DNA. Not to mention all the reproducing mechanisms happen in the nucleaus (the resideing area for the DNA).

"It is of no concern to me, but as far as I can see, they did exist. "

What do you think about the Date of dinosaurs dating to 65 million years? Not to mention the earth dating back 4 billion years? Any comments on radioactive dacay?

-And have you taken Biology?-

"No."

As I said, It would be helpful. Here in america, most people in highschool take biology. This greatly enhances the understanding of things. Even if you still don't believe it, itll be a hell of a lot easier to critisize it!

OH by the way did you read my rendition of evolution? If you didn't you should, you asked for it

"religion is the creation of satan! Wait, isn't satan a religious thing?"
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
There is not only one absolute truth, im sure,


How so?

If you don't care what I believe what is the point of talking about god to ME?

We happen to be talking about God. it is called conversation.

"i'm convinced, and thats what matters."

Insane people are convinced of many insane things.

And so are sane people.

My intelligence thrives on information; if you give me none, my intelligence can not work.

It is up to you to discriminate.

The fruit that grants wisdom is the problem.

Why?

Another problem is that the Amighty God has a cow about someone whom he can easily change eating a fruit he can easily replace.

Then what would be the point of His Laws?

"A philosophy which is true."

In my experience, philosophies are like opinions.

Some opinoins are true.

Given that this is the case, why would he get angry when adam eats the apple? He already know beforehand that he would!!!

He was acting perfectly as Adams Father, a father is allowed to get angry if his children disobey him to their detriment.

Dont tell me you haven't heard it before!

I have heard it before, but have seen no evidence of proof to substantiate it. Can you offer any?

Youd be surprised to find that there are thousands of fossil records that indicate just that. Im no expert, but thta is the main use of fossils.


You're right, i would be.....care to divulge?

"That example would be useless as it is not evidence that new species may appear in time. "

How so?

You tell me, is there any evidence?

"or change in the genetic code, only produces “variations” within the species, I am only interested in examples regarding changes of one species into another. "

Every generation produces its own tini variations. Some variations die because they suck. Other variations live becaues they are better. The small variation from one generation to another may become a relatively large change in a thousand generations.

Where is the evidence that one species changes into another, and what is the mechanism that allows this change??

"Either you believe or you don’t, it only matters to you."

I KNOW that if you don't convince anyone of your view, your view will die out, unless of course people spontaniously come to the same conclusion as you do.

So every bit of knowledge you possess, you had to be convinced of it?

"Also, where is the evidence that all the information in genes governs all aspects of biological form?"

Taking biology would be helpful to you. I can't explain 500 years of biological science to you very well here even if i WAS an expert, which i am not.

Well they don't teach 500 years of biological science in most schools either, but teach evolution of the species as fact in most schools.
All i am asking for is evidence, not a lecture.

I thought you didn't care about evidence?

Modern science claims that "evolution of the species" is FACT, i think it is a load of hooey. Modern scientist say that for something to be a fact, it has to have supporting evidence. Where is it?

Only what you believe matters, right?

No, i didn't say that, you are putting words in my........computer.

Well ill tell you anyway. This could be considered evidence: each animal we have discovered has a certain amount of the same DNA and some parts that are different. The usual difference is less than 5%. Monkeys and humans share almost Identical (99.9% similar) DNA, yet humans and mice share only about 98% similar DNA. Not to mention all the reproducing mechanisms happen in the nucleaus (the resideing area for the DNA).

Okey, that could explain how the ingredients for biological form appear, but it says nothing of the appearance or origin of the biological form itself.

"It is of no concern to me, but as far as I can see, they did exist. "

What do you think about the Date of dinosaurs dating to 65 million years? Not to mention the earth dating back 4 billion years? Any comments on radioactive dacay?

I haven't given it much thought.

This greatly enhances the understanding of things.

Things biological yes, but it is only one aspect of knowledge.

itll be a hell of a lot easier to critisize it!

Whose critisizing, i asked 3 simple questions and you have yet to give answers, here they are again...
1) Give examples of evolutionary transitions in which one species changes into another.

2) Specify the mechanism by which one species could change into another.

3) Specify the actual course of evolution in the past.
Which specific forms gave rise to which specific new forms?

Can you answer them?

OH by the way did you read my rendition of evolution? If you didn't you should, you asked for it

A Bacteria was just milling around in the primordial soup of early earth.

Where did this bacterial come from?
What was its purpose (apart from milling around)?

These bacteria have the ability to take crap from the water they are in and sunlight (what little there is underwater) and turn it into useful energy.

Where did they obtain the "ability?"
Where did the water come from?
In fact where did the Earth and Sun come from?

"religion is the creation of satan! Wait, isn't satan a religious thing?"

Modern day, "materialistic religion, most probably.

Love

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
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