Creationism vs. science

quoth banshee:

I read somewhere, that people have forgotten about the gods, who were worshiped in ancient times, among the ancient ones like the Walhalla and the like? And what gods were ruling there?

And what about the ancient roman gods? Where do you think names like Mars, Apollo, Venus, Jupiter, Neptune and so on come from?

Have you people all forgotten about this? How sad.

Not forgotten, only replaced with rational thinking, the kind of thinking which allows you to have an internet connection, running water, variety of food, etc... It really wouldn't take much for you to return to those days. Simply move out of your house, leaving everything behind, and move into a cave.

I am in the same kind of discussion on another Forum and I'm just a little angry about all knowledge and wisdom, coming from the elders who were inhabiting Earth.

You are mistaking knowledge and wisdom for myths and legends, sorcery and witchcraft, fairy tales and make-believe, all of which is best left to the likes of Hollywood producers.
 
the old ones had knowledge Q...

Pyramids, StoneHenge (sp) , Temples in South America etc

even nowadays we don't understand how they were constructed and some we can't recreate with our present day technology

don't be so fast to say that they were brainless idiots who ate raw meat
 
Originally posted by Avatar

don't be so fast to say that they were brainless idiots who ate raw meat
Click to expand...
They are not the ones to be judged - I worry far more about the "brainlass idiots" who swallow anything and everything fed to them.
 
Originally posted by (Q)
You are mistaking knowledge and wisdom for myths and legends, sorcery and witchcraft, fairy tales and make-believe, all of which is best left to the likes of Hollywood producers.
Click to expand...

Myths and legends?

Oh, my humble apologies to the mighty (Q) who has the wisdom to explain everything after his likings.:rolleyes:

I do not see why someone has to live in a cave though,. What does it have to do with ancient history and the ways the elders handled energy? Is it necessarry to live in a cave to accomplish what they did?

Enlighten me oh mighty (Q)...

Variety of food? Hahaha, in the US you mean? It is all genetically engineered and there are tons of garbage added to the food. Nothing natural about it anymore. It is no more than human creationism. Made possible through science.

How evolving...
 
Gee ReasonableDoubt, I see why it is that evolution of the human mind/brain is not going any further.

Don't need scientific evidence to just see that for a fact.

You create the most beautiful examples...
 
ReasonableDoubt,

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

-- Stephen Roberts, quoted from Rob Fenton, in a letter to Cliff Walker (September 29, 2000)

I would dismiss or not focus my energies of gods, because when focusing on the Supreme God, all previous desires seems petty and futile.

Now why would he dismiss mine?

You might find The Documentary Hypothesis: Evidence to be of some interest. The referenced book by R. E. Friedman is also quite good.

Thanks, but they seem to be only asking questions based on their own understanding. At that rate we would, at best be going round in circles.

You are, of course, kidding I trust.

It is a poor theory, when you take into consideration the variety within this universe, plus the universe itself.
I’m not alone in my thoughts either,

"I think, however, that we must go further than this and admit that the only acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it."—*H. Lipson, "A Physicist Looks at Evolution," Physics Bulletin, 31 (1980), p. 138.

"As by this theory, innumerable transitional forms must have existed. Why do we not find them embedded in the crust of the earth? Why is not all nature in confusion [of halfway species] instead of being, as we see them, well-defined species?"—*Charles Darwin, quoted in H. Enoch, Evolution or Creation (1966), p. 139.

Tyler,


Jan is one of those unique individuals who believes she and she alone holds the ultimate truth and it's some odd mix of the few religions she has studied in depth.

Tyler, have you bothered to check the thread, or doesn’t that matter to you.

Don't bother giving her actual evidence of anything contrary to her view,

Evidence of what?
Certainly not the origin of the universe.

Avatar,
I very well remember A4Ever
particullary one discussion at religion forum long ago (don't remember the title)

Similar situation as this, you said God was a murderer and a rapist, due to your self satisfying misunderstanding of the Bible, I disagreed.

Gosh! fancy disagreeing, especially on a religion forum.

I thought I was going mad

Maybe you are. :)

Frencheneeze,

Well,
I don't exactly want to debate with "believers". I consider people who take the bible literally to be, bluntly, idiots and fanatic dumb@s$es.

Wowwwww……….you must be soooooooo intelligent.

Obviously it was not written by god, or was it. I am no theologist, so why dont you believers tell me where YOU think (or in your case probably, know) where the bible came from.

You mean you don’t know?
That means you don’t know whether it is true or not.
And here was I admiring you’re intelligence. :(
Charming!

It is my -belief- that the bible has been written….

Oh! You wanna believe now, do you?
What happened to, :eek: "scientific proof of evidence?"
Not convenient eh? :rolleyes:

….while science is about prooving and understanding rather than taking things for granted….

Like your belief in how and when the Bbible was written. :p

As part of my extremely open-minded yet critical beliefs,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!! :p:D
You had me going for a moment, I thought this post was serious.

I do believe that there can be a god,

Please post more, you are very, very, very informative, not to mention inspirational. :eek:

A4ever,

We have good conversations. I never feel pushed in any direction.

Errr….that was in the past, but my friend, the time has come. Here’s what you must do.

You gatsta believe in the God that I believes in, you gatsta eats, sleeps, walks and thinks the wayz I doos. You gatsta wipes everythings outa ya minds and fills it with my concepts.

:p L8ers

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Errr….that was in the past, but my friend, the time has come. Here’s what you must do.
Click to expand...

You gatsta believe in the God that I believes in, you gatsta eats, sleeps, walks and thinks the wayz I doos. You gatsta wipes everythings outa ya minds and fills it with my concepts.
Click to expand...

*LOL*
 
hi, hopfully i can make this shorter than normal (i hate the idea that my stuff is too long for you all to read:)

"Isn't science the new religion in a way?" Banshee

Yes and no. Science is not religion because it tries to draw proofs from observation, while religion is based on unprooved faith. BUT, many people decide that they -believe in- science and just take it for granted. These people, as ive heard by someone else, might as well be theists. Those type of people usually don't have much understanding for science and believe whatever a "scientist writes." So while science is not religion, the followers of it that "follow" without first thinking about it are not exactly part of science. Damnit its already long.

"-People are all up to believing in what scientists may find and what theories they present. There is proof for a lot of it yes. It doesn't say science holds all the answers though.-" banshee

Thats what i said, and its not the scientists fault. Your right, it doesn't hold all the answers. But the reason people are so facinated with science is that we think it might EVENTUALLY hold all the answers, once we get the theories absoluetly correct. Of course there are also scientific theories that state that that is impossible. Every theory, law, or hypothesis is only an idea that has not been disprooven by observations yet. They all have the possibility of being broken, in which case a new theory will have to be written and perhaps many others becuase of it.

"-I disagree on the words that evolution is happening right now. Humans are utterly selfish and not evolving at all. Why do you say that? On what is it based? On the scientific theories?-" banshee

First of all, it was not an opinion. Second, what if being selfish is what keeps us alive? This would mean the evolution of a non-selfish person might leave him dead or unable to reproduce. This is what evolution is.
If a man survives BECAUSE he is selfish, chances are it will stay with the species or turn into a new species. And yes on scientific theories and observation. The key is observation, if we dont have that it is only a hypothesis.
People HAVE observed changes in microbes that make them resistent or even immune to the chemicals that were used to kill them.

Answer me this: have you HEARD about resistent viruses? and do you believe it? and how do YOU explain it?


"-Once there was a time, humans knew how to work together with energy from Earth. That knowledge is all forgotten or ridiculed away. -"

I can't say anything about this because i know nothing about this. Would you please explain what an "earth energy" is? I know about geothermal energy and of course natural phenomenon that allows us to get -electricity- from them (like a river or wind).

Well hopefully that wasn't too long. Ill look forward to your response.
 
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I love that quote!

So now im talking to Jan... hmm.

"-I would dismiss or not focus my energies of gods, because when focusing on the Supreme God, all previous desires seems petty and futile. -"

What does this mean..... Sounds to me like we got a new -Jan- of Arc, huh?

Im sorry, jan. I don't want to rail on you. I've had many discussions with religious people, and they are quite obstinate about not liking to dish out proof to just -anyone- who comes along.
Either I'd like a serious discussion with you, or you can tell me you are a true believer in the bible and thats that, then ill just ignore you. Because its kind of annoying to seriously put something down and get a few badly articulated insults thrown at the words of my sentences.
Let me remind you that not one thing you said about my shpeal was serious, they were all laughing and jeering and sarcastic. Thanks but no thanks id rather have a disscussion than a religious zeal and macho demonstration. Ill just put out a few discussion points for you.

"It is a poor theory" Jan - Disproove it for us? will you?

"Like your belief in how and when the Bbible was written" Jan

I'm sorry, this was a very obscure imatation of the religious beliefs, it was sarcasm. ;) But dont go all out over it!

Fine you want me to say more about god?
I do think there CAN be a god, im just saying, unless he does stuff NOW, hes history. Science is about how things work, not how stuff was. (ok ok some science is about history, but those are theories with limited observational capacity, and since there are no direct observations, the theories are going to be a bit inaccurate)
I think that there is no proof god exists and therefore no reason for people to believe he exists. This is my whole train of thought, proof before faith. I can not believe something that does not have evidence. Why do you think we have to be PROOVEN guilty before are innocense is taken away. If people just had faith that some where guilty, wed back in the times of the inquisition.

Anything is possible, but the only thing we have to go on is our senses. If we don't trust our senses, what can we trust?

Frencheneesz
 
A Debunking

Quoted by Banshee
http://www.pribram.cz/centrum

Cosmic Energy

1. Dowsing rods have never been shown to have any statistical validity.
2. The addition of invented vocabulary (E-zones, intermediate zones, energy space, P-charge) suggests that these "researchers" are not familiar with existent physics vocabulary and is specious. (The markings of psuedo-science.)
3. A lot is said but very little explanation is given. No data at all is given. The rigor and statistical variation of the "research" is not given. This is not science. Sorry.
For instance: "On the very first day we came to the conclusion that the phenomenon is of the same character as that of capacitors." - Why? Based upon what theory or evidence?

Measuring instrument and dowsing rod

No evidence at all here, simply a testimonial. So what.

Stress Zones

pH is a measure of acidity/alkalinity not "energy". Other than that this section makes no sense at all. What is a "Stress Zone" anyway?

Forest Dieback

Causal nexus? Shall I start chanting or should I power up the hyperdrive to warp 8?

Other than the attempt to link this to the rest of the pseudo science, yes, strong electromagnetic fields can have an affect on living things. Science has demonstrated this quite nicely. Again, I must wonder at their inventive terminology and their failure to prove any real data.

Mesmerism
"The teachings of the Vienna doctor Franz Anton Mesmer (1734 – 1815) on animal magnetism has attracted great interest by doctors for more than fifty years beginning in the eighteenth century."

And utterly rejected by science. The effects of magnetism on the body have yet to be scientifically demonstrated. Studies so far with standard ferrous magnates indicate no measureable affect.


LOURDES

The placebo effect can be a powerful thing. Can anyone demonstrate: 1. Any variation above that of a control group. 2. Any variation beyond a group using some other method of "miracle healing" or placebo? The Answer; No.

What are the actual statistics? How many people visited the shrine in 1858? 3500 people were supposedly healed… but how many weren't? This info is useless.

ENERGY OF BERMUDA TRIANGLE

The Bermuda Triangle shows no statistical variance. That is, there is no increased likelihood of ships or planes getting lost, disappearing, or crashing in this area than over any other part of any other ocean. Utter bunk.

The energy raster…

Huh?

Ugh. Forget it… more of the same meaningless tripe. Many claims... no evidence. No rigor or data. I've yet to even see a testable hypothesis or method given. This is pseudoscientific crap. If there is any validity to any of these claims it is buried by an insurmountable pile of horseshit.

~Raithere
 
What does this mean.....

Why build different wells for different purposes, when the river, the source of the wells, can be utilised for all purposes, and without unecassery toil.

Sounds to me like we got a new -Jan- of Arc, huh?

Last chance! :rolleyes:
You want a proper conversation? :bugeye:
Then cut that shit out. :mad:

Im sorry, jan. I don't want to rail on you. I've had many discussions with religious people, and they are quite obstinate about not liking to dish out proof to just -anyone- who comes along.

What, exactly do you have proof of, and can you demonstrate it?

Let me remind you that not one thing you said about my shpeal was serious, they were all laughing and jeering and sarcastic.

I don’t know, I think some were true. It depends on how you look at it.

I do think there CAN be a god, im just saying, unless he does stuff NOW, hes history.

Your first mistake is, you only have an idea of God through revealed scripture. In those scriptures God reveals aspects of His character and personality, part of which is, He is the creator, maintainer and destroyer of the universe and everything therein. He is depicted as the Supreme Lord (controller), but then you put demands on Him, and your little knowledge cannot even account for what lies at the end of this temporary life.
When did you arrive at the point where you thought you were that important.
If you want to discuss God, then you should accept His character and personality as depicted in the scripture, whether you believe in Him or not, then take it from there.

This is my whole train of thought, proof before faith. I can not believe something that does not have evidence.

Something can only be proven to yourself.
You have to acquire faith in so many things just in order to believe something.
If you are talking about faith in God, then you should stipulate it, and use the meaning of the word as used in the scripture, otherwise we will be talking about different things, which doesn't make for good debate.

Why do you think we have to be PROOVEN guilty before are innocense is taken away.

Because man is imperfect.
If someone commits a crime and is found innocent by the courts, do you think that person is innocent?
The obvious truth is, as soon as someone commits a crime they are guilty, regardless of evidence or lack of.
The person knows they are guilty, so this is real knowledge.
It is knowledge in this vein that constitutes reality.


If people just had faith that some where guilty, wed back in the times of the inquisition.

Faith is the key, but once you unlock the door, there is knowledge, real knowledge.

Anything is possible, but the only thing we have to go on is our senses. If we don't trust our senses, what can we trust?

That is not a very intelligent move…………our senses are imperfect and would lead us up many a garden path.
Better off finding the source of your senses. :)

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Sorry Jan, looks like no real discussion is coming out of this. You didn't answer my question either. You talk in mystical lofty phrases that have no concrete meaning, and you seem very closed minded. I can discuss religious stuff with people who want to speak in an understandable way, but with you, its hard to even see through that mess.
In other words, you sound much like every other literal religious person ive heard. I will just ignore everything you say from now on unless it makes sence (as in i so can understand it, not that i have to agree). Im not going to discuss when there is no disscussion.

But thanks anyway - - - Frencheneesz
 
OH, by the way,
What are the sources of our sences?

The church used that one to debunk scientist in the 1500's. But it got old. Now we realize that the sences are all we got.


What other input do we have jan, tell me please. If we can't trust are sences what is there huh. If our sences are so imperfect, why do you believe what is running through your eyes right now to be the writing of a real person? How do you go through life knowing that it might not be what time you think it is, or where you think you are?

What if you could be sleeping in a world where everyone's sleeping and instead see the world around you? If you can't trust your sences you are in a world of trouble. How do you trust that your fingers are typing on that thing that your sences tell you is a keyboard?

how do you know that computer works? Your eyes are imperfect and so might tell you the computer is on when it is really off....

How do you know wheather it is night or day if you can't trust your eyes and ears?

How do you know that you aren't burning alive when you really feel fine if you can't trust your sences?

What if you are eating sewage when your mouth tells you it tastes like chicken (maybe sewage does taste like chicken, everything else seems to.)

Why do you even bother talking to someone if what you hear yourself say is not actually what you are saying, or even if the person is there at all?


This is the only place for faith in science: you must trust in observation through your sences, because life would not be worth living if those were false. It seems you have some lack of faith in your own body. YOU may not even exist if you can't trust your sences. THERE IS NOTHING BUT OUR SENCES TO TRUST.

If you can't believe that then im going to have to get very angry at you. DONT talk to me in scripture any more, be your god damn self for god damn once. You are not some kind of Fking prophesy. SAY SOMETHING MEANINGFUL and answer all my questions if you can BWAHAHHAHAH........

DAMN it Frencheneesz
 
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Frencheez......

You didn't answer my question either.

I did too, maybe you didn’t understand it.
Oh by the way you didn’t answer mine, here it is again in case you missed it.

What, exactly do you have proof of, and can you demonstrate it?

You talk in mystical lofty phrases that have no concrete meaning, and you seem very closed minded.

What exactly am I closing my mind to?

I will just ignore everything you say from now on unless it makes sence (as in i so can understand it, not that i have to agree). Im not going to discuss when there is no disscussion.

What a cop out!
You sound just like so many other blockheads I have discussed with.

The church used that one to debunk scientist in the 1500's. But it got old. Now we realize that the sences are all we got.

If the church is the source of your religious knowledge, then it is little wonder you have very little knowledge if any, about God.

If we can't trust are sences what is there huh.

Knowledge.

If our sences are so imperfect, why do you believe what is running through your eyes right now to be the writing of a real person?

Because only a real person could write. If it was somehow mechanically written, then somebody would have built and programmed the machine. :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, what else could it be the writing of? :confused:

How do you go through life knowing that it might not be what time you think it is, or where you think you are?

Time and place is relevant to the person. But there is a real time and a real place.

What if you could be sleeping in a world where everyone's sleeping and instead see the world around you?

<<<<<<<<<<DOES NOT COMPUTE>>>PLEASE REPEAT QUESTION>>>>>>.<<<<<<<<<<DOES NOT COMPUTE>>>PLEASE REPEAT QUESTION>>>>>>.

If you can't trust your sences you are in a world of trouble.

Now you are getting the idea………keep it up. :)

How do you trust that your fingers are typing on that thing that your sences tell you is a keyboard?

Through basic knowledge. :eek:

That is a silly question, the type usually debated by teens who are on the verge of a coma at a party, after smoking weed and drinking cheap cider all night. :(

how do you know that computer works? Your eyes are imperfect and so might tell you the computer is on when it is really off....

My eyes are imperfect, you are correct, but they are good enough to tell me whether my computer is on or off.

How do you know that you aren't burning alive when you really feel fine if you can't trust your sences?

I said our senses are imperfect, I didn’t say they don’t work.
You must read things more carefully. :rolleyes:

imperfect. Not perfect; not complete in all its parts; wanting a part; deective; deficient.

Now can you see in the dark without the aid of artificial light. Can you see what would have happened if you turned right instead of left. Can you see a mouse or rat from 3 miles up. Can you see if you are blind. Can you see whats in peoples minds. Can you see the back of your head without a mirror or film of some kind. Can you see the mechanism which make up your eye, without any aid.??????????????????

No?

Then your eyes are imperfect.

What if you are eating sewage when your mouth tells you it tastes like chicken (maybe sewage does taste like chicken, everything else seems to.)

Again, that is relative.

This is the only place for faith in science: you must trust in observation through your sences, because life would not be worth living if those were false.

Who said they were false? I said they were imperfect, that does not mean they cannot be utalised. :rolleyes:

If you can't believe that then im going to have to get very angry at you.

You already sound very angry, be careful not to bust a blood vessel.
I would like to ask you a question in all seriousness.

Why are you so arogant? :confused:

DONT talk to me in scripture any more, be your god damn self for god damn once.

Exxxxxxxxxcccccuuuuuusssssssseeeeeee me! :mad:

When have I spoke to you in scripture, whatever language that may be?

P.S. I’m not surprised you don’t want to discuss anymore. I think your fool nature would be exposed and hung out to dry. :rolleyes:

Have fun my friend!!

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
banshee cornered:

Oh, my humble apologies to the mighty (Q) who has the wisdom to explain everything after his likings.

Hackles up?

I do not see why someone has to live in a cave though,. What does it have to do with ancient history and the ways the elders handled energy?

You mean the energy of slaves? I think they used whips, big ones.

Is it necessarry to live in a cave to accomplish what they did?

As long as it wasn't raining. :D

Enlighten me oh mighty (Q)...

I'm sure I had some moth balls here somewhere...

Made possible through science.

How evolving...

Humans are pesky little creatures, aren't they ? ;)

btw - hand me that piano.

avatar

the old ones had knowledge Q...

Pyramids, StoneHenge (sp) , Temples in South America etc

even nowadays we don't understand how they were constructed and some we can't recreate with our present day technology

The cutting and moving of stone are not concepts too difficult to understand. Perhaps our current tools and machineries are not made to recreate those structures however, the technology would be available. We also lack millions of slaves used to do the labor. Safety first.
 
LOL, safty first


ANyway,

Hey Jan you didn't talk in scripture! I like it. How bout i roust up some of that scripture for you

"I would dismiss or not focus my energies of gods, because when focusing on the Supreme God, all previous desires seems petty and futile."

"Faith is the key, but once you unlock the door, there is knowledge, real knowledge."

"our senses are imperfect and would lead us up many a garden path"

"He is depicted as the Supreme Lord (controller), but then you put demands on Him, and your little knowledge cannot even account for what lies at the end of this temporary life."


Those are the examples i can find, and a lot of the rest makes it sound like you have the all encompassing knowledge of god.


You said the sences are imperfect, and i can agree. I can also say either that everything is imperfect, or what is your definition of perfect anyhow?


So youll answer my questions ill answer yours (by the way, it looks like its imposible for me to ignore you, since you are mostly the only one talking). But let me remind you that you didn't answer my question: what is the source of our sences?

Oh what do i have proof of? Well... that is a very broad question. What i consider proof is observation, if you consider proof to be anything else you have to tell me because i wouldn't consider it conventional.

I have proof that i exist, i do not have proof that you exist, only that your writing exists. I can infer through your writing that probably someone exists who wrote it.

Maybe what i meant is not proof, but evidence. While nothing can be prooved for certainty, things can build up quite a lot of evidence. Again i consider observation to be evidence.

This forum is creationism vs science and i do have Evidence (given that proof does not exist for anything that is the most i can give) for evolution (proably what they mean by science).

Ill try to not flame at you, but I can't list to that garden path crap. "our senses are imperfect and would lead us up many a garden path"

Where can you draw the line between where you can trust your sences and where you have to leave off?

besides who has the authority to say where you have to leave off anyway? certainly you can agree not you or I!

you want evidence ill give you some evidence. Right now, viruses that infect people are becoming resistent to the medicine we use to treat the illness. The organisms have definately not been around before because the med used to work. Now the med is becoming increasingly less usefull.
The evolution explanation is, the organisms that had the most resistence through genetic mutation survived longer than ones will less resistence, and so while the ones with less resistence get killed by the med, the ones with more resistence survive the med to reproduce and spread.

By the way, i answered your questions, i kinda want mine answered too, ill bold them for you.
 
Hey Jan you didn't talk in scripture! I like it. How bout i roust up some of that scripture for you

"I would dismiss or not focus my energies of gods, because when focusing on the Supreme God, all previous desires seems petty and futile."

"Faith is the key, but once you unlock the door, there is knowledge, real knowledge."

"our senses are imperfect and would lead us up many a garden path"

"He is depicted as the Supreme Lord (controller), but then you put demands on Him, and your little knowledge cannot even account for what lies at the end of this temporary life."

Poor Frencheez, :( those did not come from the scriptures. However, thank you for the compliment, but trust me, it is most undeserved.

Those are the examples i can find, and a lot of the rest makes it sound like you have the all encompassing knowledge of god.

Again, thanks for the compliment, but all I have is basic, analytical knowledge of God. The real knowledge and understanding starts when you live the life.

You said the sences are imperfect, and i can agree. I can also say either that everything is imperfect, or what is your definition of perfect anyhow?

perfect; Brought to consummation or completeness; completed; not defective nor redundant; having all the properties or qualities requisite to its nature and kind; without flaw, fault, or blemish; without error; mature; whole; pure; sound; right; correct.
To make perfect; to finish or complete, so as to leave nothing wanting; to give to anything all that is requisite to its nature and kind.

Things can be perfect, but only as far as their use is concerned, if utalised properly, then perfection can be reached. But the ultimate perfect isssssssssssss…………………………..that’s right Frencheez, you hit the nail on the head, the one, the only……………….Ladies and gentlemen, may I present…….God! :p

So youll answer my questions ill answer yours (by the way, it looks like its imposible for me to ignore you, since you are mostly the only one talking).

Why on Gods green and pleasant earth would you want to ignore me, what type of discussion was you expecting?? :confused:
What is it you want to discuss?

let me remind you that you didn't answer my question: what is the source of our sences?

By senses you mean the five knowledge aquring senses, namely, hearing, seeing, touching/feeling, smelling and tasteing. The source of these is……………………..you got it…..God.
To explain how this is so, would take a long post with references to the language of scripture, and as you are opposed to that language, you’ll just have to take my word for it.

Oh what do i have proof of? Well... that is a very broad question. What i consider………………..

Oh come on, just admit you have presentable proof of nothing. :D

i have proof that i exist,

Of course you do, that is knowledge. ;)

I do not have proof that you exist, only that your writing exists.
I can infer through your writing that probably someone exists who wrote it.

Well there you go dude, that wasn’t hard was it?
It doesn’t matter whether it was me or not, the point is what is written.
I am willing to bet that your name is not really Frencheez, but who cares, I am responding to what is written. :rolleyes:


Maybe what i meant is not proof, but evidence. While nothing can be prooved for certainty, things can build up quite a lot of evidence. Again i consider observation to be evidence.

Evidence is basically information which does or doesn't confirm something as fact, but fact still remains, and always will regardless of evidence. Soooooooo it make a lot more sense seek out facts.

This forum is creationism vs science and i do have Evidence (given that proof does not exist for anything that is the most i can give) for evolution (proably what they mean by science).

Then, in that vain, so do I.
About 5000 years ago God constructed a city by the name of Dwaraka on the western coast of India (then Bharat varsha). When He had completed His pastimes here on earth, He ordered the god of the sea to emerse the city under its waves. It did. And it is still there. :eek:

Ill try to not flame at you, but I can't list to that garden path crap. "our senses are imperfect and would lead us up many a garden path"

Blockheadz really make me laugh. You think you have power, but the power remains only in your head. You can flame if you like, in fact, bring it on, I am most certainly in the mood, but remember it is not me you are flaming, all you are doing is bringing up the crap that exists in your mind.

You see you have nothing to go on other than some demonic delusion that this world came out of nothing and all life started from nothing. Such nonsense. :rolleyes: Even the progenitor of this nonsense realised that it is a load of kak.

"As by this theory, innumerable transitional forms must have existed. Why do we not find them embedded in the crust of the earth? Why is not all nature in confusion [of halfway species] instead of being, as we see them, well-defined species?"—*Charles Darwin, quoted in H. Enoch, Evolution or Creation (1966), p. 139.

Where can you draw the line between where you can trust your sences and where you have to leave off?

Through self-realisation, through understanding that you are not your body or senses. That if you misuse your senses, you are sometimes happy and sometimes sad, which eventually leads to misery, and proper use means you are happy in any situation you may find yourself in.

besides who has the authority to say where you have to leave off anyway? certainly you can agree not you or I!

We have the authority within this body/life, because the Supreme Authority has granted it.

The evolution explanation is, the organisms that had the most resistence through genetic mutation survived longer than ones will less resistence, and so while the ones with less resistence get killed by the med, the ones with more resistence survive the med to reproduce and spread.

So what you are saying is, they have evolved to the state where the old med cannot affect them, yes? That’s cool, that’s called survival, evolution is fact, the theory of evolution regarding the origin of the universe and life therein is false. Your point does not explain how the universe or ourselves got here though.

By the way, i answered your questions, i kinda want mine answered too, ill bold them for you.

I’ll be right here dude. ;)

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
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