Creation Museum Scheduled to open in 2007

[Woody]

I'm back

Dee Cee

I don't understand creationism.
could somebody explain it to me?

Crunchy Cat

Sure... get ready... here it comes... 'God' did it.

Yeh but where did God come from.
I guess he must have been alive when he created us so what is the origin of life? Thats the question I'm asking. If the creationist can't offer an explanation then what are they doing here? Evolution may not be fully proven but at least it attempts to answer the question at hand.

Perhaps Woody can explain
Dee Cee

Creationism is an attempt to explain the history of the earth in accordance with the biblical precepts and a creator -- God.

For example, creationists explain how all species of animals on the earth could be housed in a ship about the size of an aircraft carrier for an earthwide flood in Noah's time.

In addition they claim a lot of the fossil material on land was washed up during the flood and redeposited.

Creationists disagree on the age of the earth -- anywhere from a few thousand years to about 60 million years.

They claim certain species of animals could not have evolved such as the bombardier beetle.

In my opinion as a christian, evolution is not a deal-breaker for me. Many others of us feel the same way.

 

[KennyJC]

For a fact it doesn't work for you, but it does work for other people.

I don't know what you're point is anymore... Are you talking about belief in heaven or rationalisation? I think I have already answered this either way, so I think you have veered off the point I was trying to make.

 

[(Q)]

Creationism is an attempt to explain the history of the earth in accordance with the biblical precepts and a creator -- God.

But of course, they fail miserably to explain anything.

For example, creationists explain how all species of animals on the earth could be housed in a ship about the size of an aircraft carrier for an earthwide flood in Noah's time.

A fairy tale of biblical proportions.

In my opinion as a christian, evolution is not a deal-breaker for me. Many others of us feel the same way.

You and your Christian buddies first have to understand evolution before commenting.

 

[Avatar]

and peace comes from that?

the peace of eternity, the non-consciousness of cosmos and ones complete merge with it.
like death of the human ego, I see my immediate body as any other matter - rock, tree, planet,
whatever happens to it is not important, and whatever happens - nothing woth speaking of has happened
I care about death and tomorrow as much as a flower worries about being cut, or sold, or eaten by a cow

 

[Avatar]

A fairy tale of biblical proportions.

Never heard that tale or imagined such a thing as a modern day explanation and taking it seriously possible.
All animals in one boat and somebody takes that seriously?
Apparently creationists have no idea how many animals are actually there,
animals to which those primitives could not physically get to?

Did Noah had a DNA databank and a DivineAnimalConstructor™?

 

[Silas]

Rationalists very definitely have less peace than the religious.

Why do you think so? I'm a scientifically minded rational individual and I meditate more than I read news or watch movies.
You probably base your argument on the idea that religious people don't have to worry about dying, because they are offered an afterlife.

Oh, sorry, no I wasn't making assumptions. There was a study. But it was a long time ago (about a year?) and I really didn't want to go into all the ins and outs or have to find a link or anything. For myself I accept that the absence of God provides a lot of terrifying eternal darkness considerations that simply have to be dealt with. Fortunately I no longer lie awake in a cold sweat about it. Also, I'm not a member of a church, which as is well known is a great way to meet girls, consequently I'm quite alone.

Re: the flood - fair's fair, the vast majority of all those species would probably not have been that affected by a global flood in the first place - insects, bacteria. But then what the hell was God thinking about? "I'll destroy all life." Gabriel: "And, uh, the fish?" God: "They... damn!"

(Not for the first time, Woody demonstrates an increasingly reasonable and rational attitude, and gets shit shovelled in his face for his pains. I'm just saying. He even linked to the TalkOrigins page about the Beetle!)

 

[Avatar]

fair's fair, the vast majority of all those species would probably not have been that affected by a global flood in the first place

from mammals probably only dolphins and whales and a few others wouldn't mind
and don't forget you'd have to stack food for all those varied species in that boat too

 

[Jan Ardena]

Hmmm... I wonder what you're getting at with that question, Jan?

Just curious.

I believe Jesus is God, and that he is resurrected from the dead. I came to this conclusion on my own. My motivation for becoming a christian is to have peace with God. But I have to admit that eternal life is a great benefit, and it certainly beats the alternative.

Do you believe the earth is 10,000 years old, and was created in 6 twenty-four hour days?

Jan.

 

[Ophiolite]

Jan, do you believe the earth is 10,000 years old, and was created in 6 twenty-four hour days?

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan, do you believe the earth is 10,000 years old, and was created in 6 twenty-four hour days?

No.

Jan.

 

[DeeCee]

Creationism is an attempt to explain the history of the earth in accordance with the biblical precepts and a creator -- God.

Ah. now I see.
Looks like creationism is crippled by dogma.
I suppose it's ok to talk about it here in religion but It wouldn't really work in the biology forum. It's difficult to maintain a level of objectivity when you have to get your research over the hurdle of "Biblical precepts".
I feel better now I know that creatinism is not about lifes origins.
I think that was the source of my confusion.

My next question.

If creationism is not concerned with the origins of life then why does it keep cropping up in discussions on the subject?

Dee Cee

 

[Ophiolite]

At a best guess Jan, how old would you say it is?

 

[Jan Ardena]

At a best guess Jan, how old would you say it is?

That is a tough one, and I see no point in guessing.

Jan.

 

[charles cure]

Creationism is an attempt to explain the history of the earth in accordance with the biblical precepts and a creator -- God.

For example, creationists explain how all species of animals on the earth could be housed in a ship about the size of an aircraft carrier for an earthwide flood in Noah's time.

In addition they claim a lot of the fossil material on land was washed up during the flood and redeposited.

Creationists disagree on the age of the earth -- anywhere from a few thousand years to about 60 million years.

They claim certain species of animals could not have evolved such as the bombardier beetle.

In my opinion as a christian, evolution is not a deal-breaker for me. Many others of us feel the same way.

you know whats funny, here is a quote from your article on the bombardier beetle:

"Gish is wrong; a step-by-step evolution of the bombardier system is really not that hard to envision. The scenario below shows a possible step-by-step evolution of the bombardier beetle mechanism from a primitive arthropod."

creationists cant even agree amongst themselves about what "looks designed" and what doesnt. superior.

 

[Silas]

*sigh* Charles, the cited article, as I already pointed out, is from the TalkOrigins website, the one that we "evolutionists" (pace Ophi) frequently refer to in our arguments with genuine Creationists. I'm pretty certain that Woody, who has not here professed a particular adherence to the Creationist viewpoint, nor offered any erroneous purported evidence against Evolution (he merely pointed out that the Smithsonian exhibit was crap) is not a full-blooded Creationist - which is something he keeps telling us anyway.

 

[charles cure]

*sigh* Charles, the cited article, as I already pointed out, is from the TalkOrigins website, the one that we "evolutionists" (pace Ophi) frequently refer to in our arguments with genuine Creationists. I'm pretty certain that Woody, who has not here professed a particular adherence to the Creationist viewpoint, nor offered any erroneous purported evidence against Evolution (he merely pointed out that the Smithsonian exhibit was crap) is not a full-blooded Creationist - which is something he keeps telling us anyway.

i did think that was kind of weird. i guess i just found it confusing that that was something he would cite as part of description of Creationism. i wasnt criticizing him as a creationist, but the article was weird and contradictory, and in the context of a description of creationist belief, i figured thats what he was talking about. it seems i have made some sort of mistake, but i dont think i read the article wrong.

 

[Woody]

"Q" said about Noah's ark:

A fairy tale of biblical proportions.

Assuming the animals were willing to participate, there appears to plenty of room on board a ship as large as an aircraft carrier to house all species of animals. Creationists present a pretty good case anyway.

The design of the ship is roughly equivalent in size to an aircraft carrier based on the cubit system which is roughly one half meter.

It took about 100 years to build and collect all the animals. Water wasn't a problem and the roof on the ship was designed to take water down troughs as needed, but food posed some difficulties for the flesh eaters. Some of them went quite hungry on the 40 day voyage, but there were plenty of drowned carcasses to feed on at the end of the ride.

I'd like to hear a good counter-argument, besides "it's just a fairy tale."


Here are some calculations from a creationist site concerning Noah's Ark:

The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

 

[spidergoat]

What exactly do you think happened? Did Noah collect all the species of sea creatures, too? What about animals native to the Americas? What about the platypus and kangaroo?

 

[Woody]

What exactly do you think happened? Did Noah collect all the species of sea creatures, too? What about animals native to the Americas? What about the platypus and kangaroo?

I suggest you read the link I provided -- there was no need to collect sea creatures or plant life.

There would have to be some type of migratory instinct that caused most of the animals to come to Noah. In other words it would take a divine intervention.

The geography of the earth was proposed to be different before the flood. In Genesis 7:11 it says "on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth" during the flood, but that statement isn't fully understood.

I have a question about fresh water versus salt water life. How did the fresh water creatures survive? well I already have an answer -- foolish me. The water was fresh on the top of the ocean's surface because it rained torrentially the whole 40 days. Salt water animals would have to go deeper to seek the right salinity.

I'm still looking for a rebuttal on Noah's ark -- any volunteers?

 

[Lemming3k]

What exactly do you think happened? Did Noah collect all the species of sea creatures, too?

Apparently it says he collected every creature that breathed the air(so i presume this includes underwater creatures that breathe air).

What about animals native to the Americas? What about the platypus and kangaroo?

You forgot the dinosaurs.