Counterproposal: Don't dress like a slut...

I am surprised to see people who think that women who dress to look nice are partly responsible for their own sexual assaults. It's rather like thinking that the U.S. was partly "asking for" 9/11 based on our policies in the Middle East, or that people who live in mansions are enticing burglars to come rob them.
 
goddammit. saying their clothes had something to do with it, doesn't mean i think they were asking for it. they're entitled to wear whatever they want. i'm saying it may have been a factor during the rapist selection process. and i believe a greater number of rapists would be attracted to women wearing clothes designed to make women attractive, compared to everyday clothes.

why do people think sexual urges have NOTHING to do with rape? rape is obligation free sex.
 
purple_hairstreak said:
So basically you're saying: "Oh you'll get raped anyway, but dress conservatively, in a way that wouldn't arouse men, just in case."

You have completely missed my point. I'm trying to say that no matter how women dress, men still rape them.
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i'm not telling people what to do. its a person's own choice

of course, no matter how women dress they get raped. that's cos nudity isn't really an option. that doesn't mean clothes haven't affected various situations.

Pandaemoni said:
I am surprised to see people who think that women who dress to look nice are partly responsible for their own sexual assaults. It's rather like thinking that the U.S. was partly "asking for" 9/11 based on our policies in the Middle East, or that people who live in mansions are enticing burglars to come rob them.
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rich people own mansions. rich people have stuff worth stealing in mansions. despite people deserving to own whatever they want, and despite no one wanting to be robbed, mansions do entice burglars.

didn't america carpet bomb afghanistan a few years before 9/11, and invade iraq a couple of years after? its nice how you call them policies, but what kind of response do you expect?
 
Oh, good grief... If you get over the semantics, there are valid points here... Maybe, it's just a matter of perspective. Maybe men are projecting their viewpoint unto women. For example, there are plenty of places in the city, that if I am walking there, I would not want to be dressed in nothing but a pair of skimpy shorts, no shirt, no shoes, etc. (And I am a 200 lb muscular male) It just makes you feel more vulnerable, and probably means you are more vulnerable. This does not mean that i am "asking for" violence or harassement. It does, however, IMHO, increase the probability that I will be harassed in someway. Conversly, walking alone down certain streets dressed in a $2,000.00 suit also (again, IMHO) increases the probability that I will be harassed by certain unsavory elements. If everything we hear in the media is true, rape is about violence, not sex, so isn't there some kind of parallel here? Even if it's not a one hundred percent correct analogy? Are you really trying to say that you have no infuence over the likelihood of staying safe by taking precautions, or are you confusing caution with the right to do as you please? In an ideal world, anyone should be able to do anything, without fear of harm or reprisal, as long as it does not infringe on someone else's right to do the same. We don't live in a perfect world....
 
I agree that rape is more about violence and less about sex. Obviously rapists ARE sexually aroused by the act, but it's not romantic or sexual, it's the violence/power side that gets them aroused. Hence many rapists are incapable of "normal" arousal because it's not "sexily dressed" women that they get off on, it's violence and overpowering someone. Many people seem ignorant of this and think it's about not being able to control their sexual desire.

What's the problem with women wearing what they want, of course they are not to blame for any harassment. The fault lies with the ignorant men who are doing the harassment. It might be easy to blame the women for their clothing but if you check it logically it's the fault of the person who harasses or attacks the woman. Many people with this mentality will do so no matter what people wear but if they stand out it might be more likely they attract the attention of others. This however is not an excuse for people acting like that, just because someone wears clothing that attracts attention doesn't mean you can blame them for the ignorance and poor behaviour of those who direct abuse of any kind at them.
 
Please bo not confuse blame, or more appropriately perhaps, responsibility, with prudence. In no way whatsoever does a woman take ownership of being raped, or imply in any form or fashion that there is a desire to be raped or harassed, because of what whe wears. (or doesn't wear, the same argument extends if she chooses to walk naked) However, prudence dictates that we do certain things in certain settings, and perhaps not in others. Again, my personal example still stands... If I (as a male) walk down a street in the bad part of town dressed in nothing but a skimpy bathing suit / $2,000 silk suit, am I increasing my vulnerability, am I "standing out", and are my chances of being physically accosted increased? Yes or no?
 
codanblad said:
so he lies in wait for a beautiful woman. like most men, he finds girls dressed sexily more attractive than girls wearing a hoodie and jeans.
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You said it was dark. How can he see what they are wearing? Surely, it would be easier to grab a girl in a hoodie; when I studied Judo, we used to wear Gi, to grab a hold of.

You sound rather immature, to be honest, I think you need to get some more life exeprience, and find out more about the victims and perpetrators, and fantasize less about the mechanics.
 
"why do people think sexual urges have NOTHING to do with rape? rape is obligation free sex"

RUBBISH!
Obligation free? As opposed to consensual sex? Have you ever had sex? With a willing partner?

Furthermore, no one is saying "sexual urges have NOTHING to do with rape", sexual urges have a great deal to do with every type of human behavior! However, that does not mean that rape is primarily about sex, it simply says that sex is a "factor" in rape... By all accounts, a very minimal factor, compared to violence and control...

In any event, the question is, can a woman change her chances of being traumatized sexually? Specifically, does her clothing (or lack thereof) have any bearing on rape or harassment? If it doesn't, does she have any influence, whatsoever, over the probability of being raped, or is it purely random chance? :shrug:
 
Anyone? Anyone at all? Beuller?

If I (as a male) walk down a street in the bad part of town dressed in nothing but a skimpy bathing suit, or conversly, a $2,000 silk suit, am I increasing my vulnerability, am I "standing out", and are my chances of being physically accosted increased? Yes or no?
 
Everyone here is assuming that all rape victims are skimpily dressed lasses wandering around alone at night in nefarious parts of town. The truth is somewhat different I'll wager.....

Here's some news that some here may find startling:
Children are raped
Elderly people are raped
Mothers who do not dress in nighclubbing clothes are raped
Women who wear floor length saris are raped
Women who dress from head to toe in cloth are raped
Women are raped within their own homes
Men are raped
Married women are raped
Single women are raped
Prostitutes are raped
Girls are raped by their own family members
Women are raped by strangers

So dears. What do you conclude? Exactly how does a person avoid being raped?
 
phlogistician said:
You said it was dark. How can he see what they are wearing? Surely, it would be easier to grab a girl in a hoodie; when I studied Judo, we used to wear Gi, to grab a hold of.

You sound rather immature, to be honest, I think you need to get some more life exeprience, and find out more about the victims and perpetrators, and fantasize less about the mechanics.
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he'd pick a park with streetlights or some form of visibility. generally moonlight and lampposts are sufficient enough, but i suppose he could carry a torch if necessary. a hoodie would make things easy, but he has all night to pick someone, and is fully capable of subduing a woman. he's armed and capable.

i can see why you think i'm immature and fantasizing, but i've had to create this elaborate story just to explain that its possible for a man to be in a position to pick someone to rape. check out the statistics-

http://www.pcar.org/about_sa/stop.html

-70% of rapees knew their attacker.
-On average, from 1992-2000, only 31% of all rapes were reported.
-Probability that an arrest will be made when a rape is reported: 1:2. (50.8%) (National Center for Policy Analysis, 1999)
-The overall probability that a rapist will be sent to prison for his crime: 16.3%-The average sentence: 128 days

by raping someone, you have about a 16% chance of going to jail for committing rape. these calculations don't even include being a smart rapist, picking targets less likely to report you, the manner in which you rape them, your disguise etc. could all lessen your odds of being caught.

the point of this is with such low risks, is it possible some men prefer the excitement, sex and power of raping someone, to having to pay for sex with some worn out old hooker, or putting the work (and money) in with a gf? if they chose rape for such reasons, might they pick their women based on attractiveness? might their clothes determine their attractiveness?

could anyone agree to such a suggestion? if you could agree its even a tiny possibility, regardless of the lack of likelihood, regardless of the fact women shouldn't have to fear rapists, please post so.
 
Randwolf said:
"why do people think sexual urges have NOTHING to do with rape? rape is obligation free sex"

RUBBISH!
Obligation free? As opposed to consensual sex? Have you ever had sex? With a willing partner?

Furthermore, no one is saying "sexual urges have NOTHING to do with rape", sexual urges have a great deal to do with every type of human behavior! However, that does not mean that rape is primarily about sex, it simply says that sex is a "factor" in rape... By all accounts, a very minimal factor, compared to violence and control...:
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i don't see how you've disputed rape being obligation free sex. other than calling it rubbish. girlfriends cost time and money, so do hookers. rape is an economical alternative. with bonus feelings of power, adrenaline rush, and perhaps access to women you couldn't normally sleep with.

if it ends up that power etc. is a greater bonus to sex, ok. they still might have selected the victim on appearance. check post 173
 
Randwolf said:
Anyone? Anyone at all? Beuller?

If I (as a male) walk down a street in the bad part of town dressed in nothing but a skimpy bathing suit, or conversly, a $2,000 silk suit, am I increasing my vulnerability, am I "standing out", and are my chances of being physically accosted increased? Yes or no?
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wow you've pretty much achieved what i've been trying to for days within a couple of lines.
 
Not at all... As numerous posters have pointed out, there is little/no correlation between being "scantily clad" and being raped, as most rape victims know their attackers...

However...

I am trying to find out if people believe that a female has

A:No, B:Little, C:Some, D:Total...... you get the idea

influence on her likelihood of being harassed and/or raped, by a stranger, in a "public" environment.

Note: This is not the same as "asking for it", being "at fault, blamed" or anything else other than the question as it is phrased... (Including the how can she "avoid being raped" question - stop trying to sidetrack...)

Is this, like, an extremely difficult concept? Why won't anyone directly address this? It has been alluded to many times... Is it just that this is such an emotionally charged issue that no one can respond logically?


And once again, regardless of your answer to the above, I am interested to see how these same people feel about the following:

If I (as a male) walk down a street in the bad part of town dressed in nothing but a skimpy bathing suit, or conversly, a $2,000 silk suit, am I increasing my vulnerability, am I "standing out", and are my chances of being physically accosted increased? Yes or no?
 
codanblad said:
i don't see how you've disputed rape being obligation free sex. other than calling it rubbish. girlfriends cost time and money, so do hookers. rape is an economical alternative. with bonus feelings of power, adrenaline rush, and perhaps access to women you couldn't normally sleep with.

if it ends up that power etc. is a greater bonus to sex, ok. they still might have selected the victim on appearance. check post 173
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Let's see....

Obligation free? Hope you don't get caught...

Most people put a pretty heavy obligation on rape... Hardly seems worth it... 20 yrs?

Still think rape is obligation free?

What about any decency you used to have as a human being? Kind of makes a dinner and a movie seem kind of "obligation free"....
 
So statistically speaking, 70% of women who have reported being raped know their attacker you are still clinging to the 'women stop going out scantilly clad and you'll reduce your chances of being raped' assertion?

Are you being deliberately stupid or are you just arseholes?
 
sniffy said:
So statistically speaking, 70% of women who have reported being raped know their attacker you are still clinging to the 'women stop going out scantilly clad and you'll reduce your chances of being raped' assertion?

Are you being deliberately stupid or are you just arseholes?
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I wonder how many times, in how many ways, I can ask this? :confused:

Not at all... As numerous posters have pointed out, there is little/no correlation between being "scantily clad" and being raped, as most rape victims know their attackers...

However...

I am trying to find out if people believe that a female has

A:No, B:Little, C:Some, D:Total...... you get the idea

influence on her likelihood of being harassed and/or raped, by a stranger, in a "public" environment.

And, once again... (redundant, yes?)

And once again, regardless of your answer to the above, I am interested to see how these same people feel about the following:

If I (as a male) walk down a street in the bad part of town dressed in nothing but a skimpy bathing suit, or conversly, a $2,000 silk suit, am I increasing my vulnerability, am I "standing out", and are my chances of being physically accosted increased? Yes or no?

No one will touch this, will they?
 
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