Conservation of souls?

Michael 345 said:
Anyway I am fed up with the stupidity of your evasion. I admit you do a good job of a Jan sock puppet
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Don't go away angry. That's not my intention. Maybe consider the possibility that you are and always have belonged...to something much larger than your ego.

Best wishes,
Bowser
 
Bowser said:
I think it is more about surrendering to God. Doing so releases a person from the past and the future.
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And from responsibility for their own lives, which is unfortunate. People "surrendering to God" is one of the reasons we have such a victim society these days,
 
billvon said:
And from responsibility for their own lives, which is unfortunate. People "surrendering to God" is one of the reasons we have such a victim society these days,
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How do you mean? What is a "victim society"?
 
billvon said:
A society that tends to blame external events out of their control (i.e. God, luck) rather than blame their own poor decisions for their plight.
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Each individual is his/her own story. So, you're saying people choose their own misfortune?
 
Write4U said:
Then the question becomes, "who was the Father of the Father"? And we end up with an infinity of fathers begetting fathers.....:?
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Baldeee said:
At some point expect to invoke some special pleading ;)
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:raises hand reluctantly:

Actually, that's the exact same problem we face today with the Big Bang Theory. If the BB creating everything we see, then what created the BB? And what created whatever created the BB?
So, it's not a conundrum specious to God, but to all of existence itself.
 
DaveC426913 said:
:raises hand reluctantly:

Actually, that's the exact same problem we face today with the Big Bang Theory. If the BB creating everything we see, then what created the BB? And what created whatever created the BB?
So, it's not a conundrum specious to God, but to all of existence itself.
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Yes, that does pose a conundrum, but I would rather consider a hierarchical dynamical ordering resulting in fields of virtual particles, which combined can form into matter, than the formation of a sentient and motivated intelligence, which then just creates matter from nothing (Let there be light).

It's that intelligent and motivated part that bothers me. It's an extra step that is really not neccessary in the self-assembly of a mathematical construct and philosophically just complicates matters.
 
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Bowser said:
Do all things have a common source?
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Not necessarily, it may be a hierarchy of orders. But indeed all things do have one common denominator, Potential. But potential needs not be intelligent. It just needs to be dynamical to become creative. It converts a state of possibility to a state of probability. As Bohm so nicely put it in "Wholeness and the Implicate Order."
Wholeness and the Implicate Order ‘One of the most important books of our times.’ Resurgence ‘
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I find his concept of wholeness extraordinarily appealing, as an explanation of the riddles of modern physics, and as a prescription for human living.’ John P. Wiley Jr, Smithsonian
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‘Wholeness and the Implicate Order conveys a sense of work in progress, which aims at a distantly glimpsed ideal of the unification of all aspects of the world. . . . The feeling of struggle in Bohm’s book is its most appealing feature.’ Abner Shimony, Nature
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http://www.gci.org.uk/Documents/DavidBohm-WholenessAndTheImplicateOrder.pdf

And I believe this is a logical follow up to Bohm theory.
See Causal Dynamical Triangulation;
Causal dynamical triangulation (abbreviated as CDT) theorized by Renate Loll, Jan Ambjørn and Jerzy Jurkiewicz, and popularized by Fotini Markopoulou and Lee Smolin, is an approach to quantum gravity that like loop quantum gravity is background independent.
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This means that it does not assume any pre-existing arena (dimensional space), but rather attempts to show how the spacetime fabric itself evolves.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation
 
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Write4U said:
Yes, that does pose a cunundrum, but I would rather consider a hierarchical dynamical mathematical orderings resulting in fields of virtual particles, which combined can form into matter than the formation of a sentient and motivated intelligence, which then just creates matter from nothing.
It's that intelligent and motivated part that bothers me. It's an extra step that is really not neccessary in the self-assembly of a mathematical construct and philosophically just complicates matters.
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I see it as a dynamical collapse causing a compressed energy singularity, resulting in a mega-quantum event. Banggggggggggggggggggggggg! Creating the fields from which matter emerges.

The term "void" conjures a picture of implosion and that's all that is necessary for a dynamical (energetic) process of compression.
 
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Baldeee said:
There may only be one father... I only have one father...
But I do/did have two grandfathers.
And four great grandfathers.
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Actually you may have millions of grandfathers, from single celled mindless micro-organisms to every species on the branch that led to homo sapiens.
 
Bowser said:
Each individual is his/her own story. So, you're saying people choose their own misfortune?
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In a great many cases, yes. Someone who decides to drop out of school, then later suffers a life of poverty and unemployment, has created his own misfortune. Someone who smokes two packs a day, and is later diagnosed with lung cancer, has created his own misfortune. Someone who lives with his Mom, stays on the couch all day and watches TV, then complains that he can't meet women, has created his own misfortune.

There is a strong tendency today to be a victim rather than owning up to the consequences of your decisions. The high school dropout, for example, might blame fate, or the evil capitalist system, or the greedy rich people, or an uncaring world for his plight. The couch potato might become an "incel" and blame the Stacys and Chads of the world for his inability to meet women.

There are plenty of good things about religion for many people (community, charity, a moral compass for a rudderless person.) But one of the bad things is a tendency to blame God for everything that happens. "Well, I will get a job, God willing. No, I can't go to school; it's too hard. But if that's in God's plan for me I guess it will happen somehow. If not, who am I to question God?"
 
billvon said:
But if that's in God's plan for me I guess it will happen somehow. If not, who am I to question God?"
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As Carlin said: If God has a Divine plan why do people expect him to change is plan because they have a two dollar prayer book.
 
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