Color Of Crime!!!
- Thread starter Azrael
- Start date
As far as I can tell everyone is simply saying that the original statistics are total shit, for a myriad of reasons. This includes social background.
I don't think anyone's justifying these actions, just giving reasons for them. The original post was using stats contrived from an obviously racist propaganda site.
Once again, you end the "War on drugs", you end most street gangs. Drug money attract teenagers to crime, and drug money allows criminals to buy guns and run their operations.
Check this article out, http://www.lindesmith.org/news/DailyNews/2million_inmates2.html
"Many Americans worry, the Times explains, that the nation’s lock-down is not motivated by fair retribution but moral righteousness--the desire to draw a line between "us," the law-abiding public, and "them," an irredeemable class often comprised of the poor, the mentally ill, and people of color. "The whole thrust of everything now is to perceive and define people who offend society as being a breed apart from the rest of humanity,” one inmate, who is African American, told the newspaper.
In his case, as in many others, race is often the subtext, an unspoken code that contributes to the perception of criminals as "The Other," a distinct and deviant caste. Although blacks make up about 13% of the U.S. population, they constitute 50% of the state and federal prison population. The odds that a black man will do time at some point in his life are 1 in 3; for whites, it is 1 in 25.
The disparity has only increased under the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted young black males. Most racial and ethnic groups consume drugs at roughly the same rates, meaning that whites account for about 75% of the nation's drug users. Blacks, however, account for about 75% of the nation's drug prisoners, a function largely of law enforcement priorities and a lack of resources for treatment.
The Times reports that many critics planned to use the occasion of America's 2 millionth prisoner to take special aim at the drug war, condemning it as destructive and hypocritical. In rallies and vigils across the country, groups like the November Coalition and Common Sense for Drug Policy assailed the "prison-industrial complex" for being as noxious as the ills it purports to remedy"
Targeted? Ya, okay. Maybe because the majority of drug dealers are black. And just because the facts came from an obvious rascist site, does not mean they are incorrect. I dont know though, I havent checked for the facts. But I do know that 1 in 3 black males will go through some form of corrections in their life. And that, is a fact. Forget the reasons they commit crime, or the life that they have lived - they commit crime more than any other race. And I am not prejudice, but the facts are facts.
True stRgrL, but you skipped the part after you quoted...
"The disparity has only increased under the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted young black males. Most racial and ethnic groups consume drugs at roughly the same rates, meaning that whites account for about 75% of the nation's drug users. Blacks, however, account for about 75% of the nation's drug prisoners, a function largely of law enforcement priorities and a lack of resources for treatment. "
It's showing that while 75% of drug users are white, 75% of drug prisoners are Black. Check out these reports, http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/
If Blacks are only 13% of the population and use drugs at the same rate as other races, Yet make up 75% of the drug prisoners, then you have a huge difference in justice. When you also consider that most of the new inmates and half the people already in jail are in because of "drug offences", you start to see the problem.
Check out this USA Today article... http://www.usatoday.com/news/comment/columnists/wickham/wick041.htm
"While 49% of crack users in 1998 were white, just 34% were black and 17% Hispanic, according to the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information. But in that same year, blacks were 85% of those convicted for selling crack, Hispanics were 9%, and whites were 6%, according to the U.S. Sentencing Commission.
Last year, whites were 74% of powder cocaine users, Hispanics 13% and blacks 12%. But in 1998, blacks were 31% of those who ended up in federal prison for selling powder cocaine, Hispanics 49% and whites only 19%."
Dude, using drugs and selling drugs are 2 totally different things. You cannot compare the two. Well, you can, but its still not the same thing. The majority of crack or cocaine sellers, carry a gun. Therefore are more likely to shoot people. People that use drugs are not walking around with guns looking for someone to jack. Common now...
stRgrL, the majority of drug dealers are White, the point of the article is to show how unbalanced the justice system can be. I'll repeat it again,
"While 49% of crack users in 1998 were white, just 34% were black and 17% Hispanic, according to the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information. But in that same year, blacks were 85% of those convicted for selling crack, Hispanics were 9%, and whites were 6%, according to the U.S. Sentencing Commission.
Last year, whites were 74% of powder cocaine users, Hispanics 13% and blacks 12%. But in 1998, blacks were 31% of those who ended up in federal prison for selling powder cocaine, Hispanics 49% and whites only 19%.
"If most of the crack and powder cocaine dealers are black, then inner-city streets ought to be overrun with white users trying to buy these drugs,'' said Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project, a Washington, D.C., organization that promotes criminal justice reform. ''That they aren't suggests that something is wrong."
Ah, but your still missing my point. Drug dealers have their own "turf", and sell in their neoghborhoods. If 34% of crack users are black, how are they supporting 85% of the drug dealers. And how can only 6% of white drug dealers support 49% of the users.
The article was showing the difference in jail sentencing between "crack", which is the inner-city form of coke, and cocaine, which is the surburban form of coke.These stats are based on convictons, not on the actually amount selling. Once again, if blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites, 13% Black, 75% White, then how are 75% of drug prisoners in jail Black. I don't think it has anything to do with racism, I just think inner-city people are easier targets for the Billion dollar industry of the "Drug War".
Check this out... http://w3.ag.uiuc.edu:8001/Liberty/Tales/CrimeAndDrugWar.Html
In 1907, when Georgia and Oklahoma made the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors illegal state wide, the homicide rate in the United States was 1 person per 100,000 per year.[2] Before the end of the decade, 13 states plus Alaska, Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia had gone dry.[6] By 1919--when the 18th amendment was passed, making alcohol use illegal nationwide--the homicide rate had grown to 8 per 100,000. The murder rate climbed steadily until it peaked at 10 per 100,000 around 1933, when our nation admitted its mistake, and repealed the 18th amendment. By 1943 the homicide rate had drastically shrunk to 5 per 100,000 and stayed near that level until 1964 when the United States made the same mistake all over again (see graphic).[2]
In December of 1964, having been ratified by 40 countries, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 went into effect restricting narcotic drug use to medical and scientific purposes. It also internationally banned narcotic drug trade outside of government monopolies.[8] History was about to repeat itself. From 1964 to 1970 in the United States, the number of state prisoners incarcerated for drug offenses more than doubled from 3,079 to 6,596 (it was 90,000 in 1989)[9], and the new concentration on enforcing victimless crimes caused the homicide rate to skyrocket. Between 1964 and 1970 the homicide rate doubled from 5 per 100,000 to 10 per 100,000, where it has remained, with minor fluctuations, until today.[2] Lyndon Johnson had declared war on drugs, to be followed by Richard Nixon declaring War on Drugs in 1969, Ronald Reagan declaring War on Drugs in 1982, and George Bush declaring War on Drugs in 1989.[4]
At the turn of the century, both heroin and aspirin were legally available and sold for approximately the same amount. Today aspirin can be purchased at the corner drug store for 20 cents per gram; heroin costs $50 per gram. [p. 33, 3] The price of heroin rose drastically after it was made illegal due to the dangers involved in its sale. Dealers are willing to kill each other for profits obtained from such a lucrative market; junkies are willing to rob and kill for money to support their habit--money, if drugs were legal and cheap, that they could easily obtain by working at McDonald's. You and I, through high crime rates caused by the War on Drugs and high tax rates used to support the War on Drugs, pay the price. During prohibition "liquor store" owners murdered each other to protect their turf just as drug dealers do today. Today, liquor store owners are generally peaceful. Eliminating the enormous profits involved in black-market businesses eliminates the motive for violent crime, and therefore the violent crime.
More law enforcement is commonly touted as the answer to America's violent crime problem. Since 1970 the percentage of the American population in prison has tripled with no noticeable effect on the homicide rate.[2] More than 1.3 million citizens are now in jail.[p. 24, 3] The United States has a larger percentage of its population in prison than any other nation[2], and still maintains the highest homicide rate in the industralized world. [1] We have even thrown away parts of our constitution in the name of fighting crime. Asset forfeiture laws allow law enforcement officers to seize the property of American citizens without even charging them with a crime, even though the 5th amendment to the constitution clearly states "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." Of course if you want your property back you do have the right to post a bond and try to prove yourself innocent, of a crime you have not even been charged with, in a court of law. No attorney will be provided for you if you cannot afford one. Over $2.4 billion worth of assets have been seized since 1985, $664 million in 1991 alone--and in 80% of the cases no charges were ever filed.[7]
Disparities between the poor and the rich are often considered causes of our high crime rate, but the United States has not only one of the world's highest crime rates, but also one of the world's largest middle classes. The religious right claims America's huge crime rate is caused by a break-down of family values. This would require family values breaking down suddenly in 1907, returning in 1933, and suddenly breaking down again in 1964. Many liberals believe that America's large crime rate is due to our lack of gun-control laws, but America's gun-control policy has changed little throughout this century. There is no way gun control can explain the enormous fluctuations in America's homicide rate. The United States government's substance control policies are the only answer. The only way to lower America's violent crime rate, short of turning the United States into a totalitarian state, is through ending the War on Drugs.
The growing list of people who support decriminalization of drugs in America include: William F. Buckley, George Carlin, George Crockett, Alan Dershowitz, Phil Donahue, Hugh Downs, Milton Friedman, Ira Glasser, Michael Kinsley, David Letterman, John McLaughlin, Andy Rooney, Carl Sagan, Kurt Schmoke, Tom Selleck, George Shultz, George Silver, Tom Snyder, Robert Sweet, Thomas Szasz, Garry Trudeau, and Donald Trump.[
[2]
75% of drug users are white, yet 75% of those in jail for drugs are black, that's a huge difference in justice.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm
"At the present time, one-fourth of all of the young black men in America are either in prison or on parole. Most of them were arrested on non-violent drug charges.
In Washington, DC, the Bush administration's "demonstration" city, half of all of the black men in the city are currently in jail or on parole. More than ninety percent have arrest records. The same is true of inner city black men in Baltimore, New York, New Jersey, and Florida.
Two-thirds of all of today's black male high school students will be dead, disabled, or in prison before their thirtieth birthday. The majority will go to prison because of non-violent drug charges. For every black man who goes to college, three will go to prison."
Static,
Okay, I get it. And its true about most of them being in there for drug charges. Ill give that to you. But I still dont see the relationship between the amount of users and the amount of sellers. You think that blacks only have blacks as clientele? And vise versa with whites? Not true. When I used to sell drugs the majority of people buying weed was white. Yet allllll the crack that I used to sell was going to blacks. Not that this makes a difference or anything....
But let me say this.... The facts still stand, even the ones you posted - and no one is holding a gun to these drug dealers heads and making them sell drugs. There are alternate ways to obtain money. Like, hmmmm lets say... WORK!
Take care, good arguement
Okay, I get it. And its true about most of them being in there for drug charges. Ill give that to you. But I still dont see the relationship between the amount of users and the amount of sellers. You think that blacks only have blacks as clientele? And vise versa with whites? Not true. When I used to sell drugs the majority of people buying weed was white. Yet allllll the crack that I used to sell was going to blacks. Not that this makes a difference or anything....
But let me say this.... The facts still stand, even the ones you posted - and no one is holding a gun to these drug dealers heads and making them sell drugs. There are alternate ways to obtain money. Like, hmmmm lets say... WORK!
Take care, good arguement
hahahahah, ok strgrl you said you grew up poor but didn't turn into a criminal right?
I dont know where you lived, but if you got caught doing that in the ghetto you'd probably be serving serious jail time.
I don't mean to judge you, I don't care what you do or did do. But i think its funny that you were trying to say that your background does not affect at all your likelyhood of becoming a criminal....
And on top of all that, you really don't see something wrong in a statistic like this:
I dont know where you lived, but if you got caught doing that in the ghetto you'd probably be serving serious jail time.
I don't mean to judge you, I don't care what you do or did do. But i think its funny that you were trying to say that your background does not affect at all your likelyhood of becoming a criminal....
And on top of all that, you really don't see something wrong in a statistic like this:
It screams volumes to me about our justice system.
Okay lotus, your pretty funny. I was 16 and it was the easiest way to get money. I also quit selling 1 year later and havent since. So your argument is invalid. When I was deemed an adult on my 18th birthday, I quit doing illegal business. And I am from the ghetto, so I know exactly what goes on there. It was easy and cool to do. It doesnt make it right.
No, it says the majority of drug dealers are black and the majority of users are white. What is the injustice? Your taking something and calling it something else. Thats bullsh*t.
No, it says the majority of drug dealers are black and the majority of users are white. What is the injustice? Your taking something and calling it something else. Thats bullsh*t.
Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Static,
Okay, I get it. And its true about most of them being in there for drug charges. Ill give that to you. But I still dont see the relationship between the amount of users and the amount of sellers. You think that blacks only have blacks as clientele? And vise versa with whites? Not true. When I used to sell drugs the majority of people buying weed was white. Yet allllll the crack that I used to sell was going to blacks. Not that this makes a difference or anything....
But let me say this.... The facts still stand, even the ones you posted - and no one is holding a gun to these drug dealers heads and making them sell drugs. There are alternate ways to obtain money. Like, hmmmm lets say... WORK!
Take care, good arguement
Come on stRgrL, I'm not saying that all of black drug dealer's clientele is black. But if you think that 75% of drug dealers are black then you are mistaken.
Most whites and blacks get drugs from their neighborhood, friends, or places they hang out. When 75% of drug users are white, you expect at least 60-70% of dealers to be white from common knowledge.
You say that you yourself sold drugs, how did you get your clients?
Do you think you should be serving 10 years in jail stRgrl?
Most of the people being put into prisons are like YOU, When most of the new inmates are non-violient drug offenders, there is a problem.
"Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constitute the largest group of Federal inmates (57%) in 2000, up from 53% in 1990 (table 20). On September 30, 2000, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 73,389 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 30,470 at yearend 1990."
In 2000, drug law violators comprised 21% of all adults serving time in State prisons - 251,100 out of 1,206,400 State prison inmates.
Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions.
"Between 1984 and 1999, the number of defendants charged with a drug offense in U.S. district courts increased about 3% annually, on average, from 11,854 to 29,306."
"As a result of increased prosecutions and longer time served in prison, the number of drug offenders in Federal prisons increased more than 12% annually, on average, from 14,976 during 1986 to 68,360 during 1999."
All major Western European nations' incarceration rates are about or below 100 per 100,000. In the United States, in 2001, the incarceration rate for African-American women was 199 per 100,000, and for African-American men 3,535 per 100,000. The rate of incarceration for Hispanic women is 61 per 100,000, and for Hispanic men the rate is 1,177 per 100,000. The rate of incarceration for white women is 36 per 100,000, and for white men the rate is 462 per 100,000.
No, I dont think 10 years is a fair sentence for drug dealers. Not at all. I do think we should take a serious look at our drug laws. But that doesnt take away from the fact that at the moment it is illegal and if you are caught selling - you will do time in jail. Everyone knows this, there is a way around this problem "Dont sell drugs unless you are willing to go to jail" And this applies to ALL races - doesnt matter what color you are.
So what are you saying? That social setting isn't a factor, but age is a qualifier as an excuse? who's full of bullsh*t now?
I was 16 once but I didn't sell drugs.
I'm not really disagreeing with much of what you say, my problem was with the original poster of this thread posting an article that drew idiotic conclusions from this data.
I agree when you say,"Dont sell drugs unless you are willing to go to jail". HOWEVER, those in the inner-city are "targeted more than others", that's why I have been posting these articles. I'm sure most of those convicted of those drug charges were guilty, But why does our justice system focus mainly on them and not the whole society equally.
If Blacks are only 13% of the population and use drugs at the same rate as other races, Yet make up 75% of the drug prisoners, then you have a huge difference in justice. When you also consider that most of the new inmates and half the people already in jail are in because of "drug offences", you start to see the problem.
Why are we filling our prisons with non-violent offenders. I ask again, do you think you belonged in jail at 16..., because thousands of blacks teenagers are in prison for the same things you did.
The Reporter reviewed records, obtained from the Circuit Court of Cook County for 110,219 cases from 1995 through 2000 with individuals facing only drug possession or delivery charges.
During that six-year period, the courts convicted and sentenced defendants in more than 63,000 cases. Forty-six percent of black defendants were sentenced to prison, 30 percent of Latinos and 20 percent of whites.
http://www.chicagoreporter.com/2002/1-2002/drug/drug1.htm
The Reporter also found:
• Blacks and Latinos with multiple drug convictions or prison records received harsher penalties than whites with similar criminal histories.
• Whites with three or more drug convictions were sentenced to probation more often than prison, while blacks and Latinos went to prison more often.
• For all but the most severe offenses, whites were most likely to be convicted, but least likely to be sentenced to prison.
• Whites are three times as likely as blacks to receive a special probation that allows a charge to be expunged if the probation was successfully completed. Latinos were twice as likely as blacks.
• Blacks were more likely to be charged with more serious offenses than Latinos and whites.
“This contributes to much of the perception that the war on drugs has been a war on the people of color’s drug use,” said Marc Mauer, assistant director at the Sentencing Project, a research and advocacy organization based in Washington, D.C., that examines criminal justice policy.
His 1995 study found that blacks accounted for 35 percent of drug arrests nationwide but 74 percent of those sentenced to prison for drug possession charges. In Chicago, police and court records show that in 2000, blacks accounted for 79 percent of the drug arrests but 93 percent of those sentenced to prison for charges stemming from those arrests, according to a Reporter analysis.
Someone mentioned something about "you should study psychology", as though such a statement negates the fact that we have free will. In case you're interested, I did study some psychology, and never found anything in it which negates free will, apart from physical imposition on another or death. The more you allow your situation to dictate your choices, the weaker your will; the more you are guided by your own standards and ideals, the stronger your will.
There is no reason why someone who grows up in a poor, high-population-density area must wake up one day and say "Bloody hell, I'm poor! I'd better go sell drugs!" There is no reason why such a person must suddenly say "My neighbour has a gun, I'd better go sell drugs!" We all have the choice. Many, unfortunately, choose the easiest path to immediate gratification, rather than considering any larger perspective. That is their choice.
There is no reason why someone who grows up in a poor, high-population-density area must wake up one day and say "Bloody hell, I'm poor! I'd better go sell drugs!" There is no reason why such a person must suddenly say "My neighbour has a gun, I'd better go sell drugs!" We all have the choice. Many, unfortunately, choose the easiest path to immediate gratification, rather than considering any larger perspective. That is their choice.