Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
Killing someone is accidental or justified or murder. There is no proper context which justifies murder. Not even frenzied fantasy and/or cultural conformism peculiar to any time, place or group.
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Murder is unlawful killing. By definition, a human sacrifice carried out by a legally-sanctioned state-religious authority is not unlawful. The same way that, say, a criminal executed by a state correctional institution isn't murder.
You might think it's wrong, but that's a separate issue.
 
Hapsburg said:
Murder is unlawful killing. By definition, a human sacrifice carried out by a legally-sanctioned state-religious authority is not unlawful. The same way that, say, a criminal executed by a state correctional institution isn't murder.
You might think it's wrong, but that's a separate issue.
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Trying to play word games doesn't support your claim. It is wrong because it is not justified, regardless of whether it is legal.
 
Greatest I am said:
Hogwash. God killed Jesus. Read your bible.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Man was not even created when your A hole God decided that Jesus was to die.

Regards
DL
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The creation of the World is not this World, but the New World set aside for those who are found worthy by the Christ.
’ Look, I am making the whole creation new. Write this, ‘What I am saying is trustworthy and will come true’ Then again he said, ‘It has already happened. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water from the well of Life free to anybody who is thirsty; anyone who proves victorious will inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he will be my Son. Revelation 21:1- 10

Be henceforth Warned.
 
kx000 said:
Couldn't tell ya. I never even knew that was in the bible. I'm very picky when it comes to the verse I let into my heart. Some of the bible is actually very devilish you have to be careful.
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Some can Cherry pick Mein Kampf and end loving Hitler.

Some can do the same with the bible and end up loving its satanic G0d.

Regards
DL
 
Hapsburg said:
I put it short because, well, I'd be repeating myself at length with something you literally would dismiss because it differs from your own belief system. But if you insist:
Substitutionary atonement has a great deal of precedence in the Hellenistic society that spawned Christianity. Many cultures practised animal sacrifice, and some practised human sacrifice; the purpose of these depended on the rituals, but some of them were done to purify a group or a community by way of killing or exiling a proxy individual. Normally, this was a livestock animal, but in very extreme circumstances it was a human. When the subject was a human, exile was predominant to killing.
Its morality is questioned because we have the luxury of a modern perspective. But doing so is ignorant and completely contrary to core principles in the social sciences and historical study. You do not take things out of their proper context and presume to judge them with your modern ideas of morality. You have to place them in context and examine them structurally, as part of the situation they came from. To do otherwise is, as I said, ignorant.
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I agree with this.

But you will note that I am speaking to people today who are, with their "modern perspective", are still eating the body and drinking the blood, symbolically of course, of a man.

They also continue to embrace the notion that it is somehow just for a God to demand a death for his forgiveness when he could just as easily for give without it.

God is purported to be the most just judge imaginable. Do you see God as a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?
Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL
 
BIGFOOT said:
The creation of the World is not this World, but the New World set aside for those who are found worthy by the Christ.
’ Look, I am making the whole creation new. Write this, ‘What I am saying is trustworthy and will come true’ Then again he said, ‘It has already happened. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water from the well of Life free to anybody who is thirsty; anyone who proves victorious will inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he will be my Son. Revelation 21:1- 10

Be henceforth Warned.
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You have to lie to yourself to maintain your delusion and shove your fear mongering.

You show by using fear as a tool that your church has used it on you. Sympathies.

Let this Bishop cure your delusion.


Regards
DL
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
It is wrong because it is not justified.
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For the people that believe in that system, its benefits certainly outweigh the price. So I'd say that it's justified to them.

Greatest I am said:
But you will note that I am speaking to people today who are, with their "modern perspective", are still eating the body and drinking the blood, symbolically of course, of a man.
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Because their belief system is rooted in those ancient societies. You can't expect them to just throw out something that's core to them. That's, quite frankly, a bizarre request. I'd be like asking me to chuck out, say, hospitality from my religion; it's at the basis of the whole thing.
It's fine for a religion to generally change with the times, but it's difficult and unreasonable to demand they get rid of things that are central to it.

They also continue to embrace the notion that it is somehow just for a God to demand a death for his forgiveness when he could just as easily for give without it.
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Under their system, I don't think that's how that works. I'm pretty sure they believe that their god typically forgives only after a hardship "proves" that they are "worthy" of it, e.g. the various instances in the Old Testament where god tests his faithful or gives aid after enormous adversity. For the Christians, Jesus' sacrifice ends this cycle by presenting one person to suffer this necessary hardship one last time. For them, everyone is permanently able to be saved, because of Jesus' sacrifice purifying all of humanity. It's exactly an extension of Hebrew tradition of the scapegoat.
 
Greatest I am said:
Some can Cherry pick Mein Kampf and end loving Hitler.

Some can do the same with the bible and end up loving its satanic G0d.

Regards
DL
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I don't know the bible to well I just know what I cherry pick which is all the stuff for pacifist not the genocide or ransom with the devil. I believe Jesus came with compassion and respect and healed people. Jesus said God was Love. I pick out what I like and add my own stuff and I come up with a God of peace and reality. I do what the bible says and I ignore good vs evil.
 
Hapsburg said:
For the people that believe in that system, its benefits certainly outweigh the price. So I'd say that it's justified to them.


Because their belief system is rooted in those ancient societies. You can't expect them to just throw out something that's core to them. That's, quite frankly, a bizarre request. I'd be like asking me to chuck out, say, hospitality from my religion; it's at the basis of the whole thing.
It's fine for a religion to generally change with the times, but it's difficult and unreasonable to demand they get rid of things that are central to it.


Under their system, I don't think that's how that works. I'm pretty sure they believe that their god typically forgives only after a hardship "proves" that they are "worthy" of it, e.g. the various instances in the Old Testament where god tests his faithful or gives aid after enormous adversity. For the Christians, Jesus' sacrifice ends this cycle by presenting one person to suffer this necessary hardship one last time. For them, everyone is permanently able to be saved, because of Jesus' sacrifice purifying all of humanity. It's exactly an extension of Hebrew tradition of the scapegoat.
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If I were to follow your thinking, then I could not ask the church to stop promoting the torture and killing of the little witches you will see in the clip below.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI
Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493
Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL
 
kx000 said:
I don't know the bible to well I just know what I cherry pick which is all the stuff for pacifist not the genocide or ransom with the devil. I believe Jesus came with compassion and respect and healed people. Jesus said God was Love. I pick out what I like and add my own stuff and I come up with a God of peace and reality. I do what the bible says and I ignore good vs evil.
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IOW, you are creating your own religion and God. That is quite natural. Now learn why you are doing it and watch for the trap you might fall into.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex



Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
You have to lie to yourself to maintain your delusion and shove your fear mongering.

You show by using fear as a tool that your church has used it on you. Sympathies.

Let this Bishop cure your delusion.


Regards
DL
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Obviously, that was an Atheist masquerade. A wolf masquerading as a Shepherd . of course he will have some followers. But the Master warned us.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you disguised as sheep, and underneath are ravenous wolves. You will be able to tell them by their fruits”Mathew 7: 15-16

God is not a Christian? Excuse me!!
 
[QUOTE="BIGFOOT, post: 3247908, member: 279664"But the Master warned us.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you disguised as sheep, and underneath are ravenous wolves. You will be able to tell them by their fruits”Mathew 7: 15-16QUOTE]


So you are a false prophet.
 
BIGFOOT said:
Obviously, that was an Atheist masquerade. A wolf masquerading as a Shepherd . of course he will have some followers. But the Master warned us.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you disguised as sheep, and underneath are ravenous wolves. You will be able to tell them by their fruits”Mathew 7: 15-16

God is not a Christian? Excuse me!!
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Seek your master if all you want to be is a slave.

Regards
DL
 
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