The reason Matter, is made of three subatomic particles, with differentiated charges. We have the Proton, a positively charged light wave. Then we have the Neutron, a neutrally charged Light wave, and lastly we have the Electron the Negatively charged Light Wave. That, is the Trinity who is God.
Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?
The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.
The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.
This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty.
Christianity is a misunderstood doctrine, even by Christians themselves. You say, "In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent." Christ is a paradoxical law from God. If you think God demanded a sacrifice of an innocent Man, then, what do we say of this statement by Jesus
“I have come so that they may have life, and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep” John 10:9- 11
“ A man can have no greater love, than to lay down his own life for his friends. You are my friends. If you do what I command you.” John 15:12-14
"The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me. I lay it down of my free will and as it is in my power to lay it down, so, it is in my power to take it up again, and this is the command I have been given by my Father" John 10: 17-18
You can see therefore that Jesus willingly lay his life for Mankind. So, Christ is God the Son, doing the will of the Father. Remember, the Jews and the Romans did not know what they had just done. So, the argument that God demanded a sacrifice of innocent man, cannot be varied, unless there is evidence of God's demand. The only parson who knew about this sacrifice was Jesus himself. Even Jesus disciples did not understand this, until after resurrection.
Remember "The Road to Emmaus"
"Then He said to them, 'You foolish men, so slow to believe the message of the prophets. Was it not ordained that the Christ should suffer and so, enter into His glory?" Then he started with Moses, and going through the prophets he explained to them the passages throughout the scriptures that were about Himself" Luke 24:25-27
So, in as much as Christ made himself a sacrifice, he made himself a sacrifice for God, on behalf of all human race. As the Third Spirit, from God, Christ is a Neutral Spirit, because He is the Son of God and Man, the Human Spirit. Therefore, having sacrificed himself on behalf of all mankind, Christ only saves the person who helps him save the world-by imitating Him. So, the notion that Christ is the sacrifice that was shed for the world once and for all, is an illusion to most Christians. As God the Trinity, salvation comes from God, three times. The Father must save you, then the Spirit, and lastly the Son. That is why there is Salvation by Grace, then Salvation by Faith through works and lastly Salvation by endurance. Salvation by Grace is by God the Father. This salvation, is through adoption, and its free for everyone. This, is because Christ has Redeemed everyone. We all belong to the Christ. That having been said, the rest of salvation is NOT FREE And here, is where most Christians get it wrong! Salvation by Faith, must be backed by Works of Charity, and moral uprightness. This Salvation, is like an institution, where you come to know good and evil, and learn to always choose good.
“You are the Light of the World. A city built on a hill-top cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp to put it on under a tub; they put it on a lam-stand where it shines for everyone tin the house. In the same way, your light must shine in people’s sight, so that seeing your good works, they may give praise to your Father in heaven”. Mathew 5: 14-16.
“.I want you to be quite uncompromising in teaching all this, so that those who now believe in God may keep their minds constantly occupied in doing good works. All this is good and will do nothing but good to everybody .” Titus 2:11-15 3:8-10
“ Then I heard a voice from heaven say to me, 'Write down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord! Blessed indeed, the Spirit says; now they can rest for ever after their work, since their good deeds go with them.'” Revelation 14:13
So, as you can see, many so-called "Christians" who think that Christianity is a free-lunch to heaven is an illusion.
In the Old Testament, Satan was the intermediate between God and man. This can be seen in the Book of Job, where God is listening to Satan and doing bad things to Job, all at Satan's Request. God is sort of neutral and is using the council of Satan to test Job for faithfulness. This alliance between God and Satan, started with Lucifer who was the morning star and a very beautiful creation. Satan is evolving and changing. Their relationship ends in Revelations, when Satan is finally throw out of heaven. Revelations happens after the death of Jesus, so Satan still had God's ear when Christ is executed.
If you read the bible, before Jesus started his ministry, he goes into the desert for 40 days to meditate. There he encounters Satan who offers him power, wealth and immortality if he bows and serves Satan. Jesus could have avoided all the pain and death and had a life of power, ease and endless wives, if he agreed to go along with Satan. Satan was still in heaven and would talk to God and get his way.
Had Christ taken the deal, he would have become the Fire and Brimstone Messiah of the Old Testament, expected by the Jews. This Messiah vision would subdue their enemies, and set up a powerful and rich kingdom. The Jews expected a powerful and prestigious Messiah and not a weak and poor one that any man could kill. By refusing the anticipated Messiah offer, Jesus had fore filled prophesies by becoming something that was better.
The path chosen by Jesus, led to Satan getting the boot. Jesus did not what to be a middle man to Satan, but rather a humble servant to the big guy; God. In the end Michael the Archangel escorts Satan out of heaven and Jesus assumes his position in the council of God.
Satan was connected to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which amounts to law. With Satan no longer the intermediate, law of good and evil was made void. The replacement is the spirit of truth, which is neutral and factual instead of emotional. You need to look at the big picture. Jesus had a choice and he chose wisely. This is why he is so well likes; he choose death to free us all for sin since sin is not imputed when there is no law; no Satan and tree of knowledge in Heaven.
Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?
The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.
The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.
This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty.
The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.
That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.
As above so below.
At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.
Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?
Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?
Regards
DL
It will only make sense when you take into account the Jewish history before Xt.
Heisman wrote:
"God is almost identical with the defining ability to change one’s “source code”. While DNA, the “source code” of biological life, has been largely unchangeable until recently, Judaism took a leap forward with a systematic Mosaic override of the highest rules of behavior. The laws of Moses were an innovation comparable to a prospective artificial intelligence’s ability to change its own source code. By taking a step towards changing the sociobiological source code of the Jews, the non-biological intelligence of Mosaic law launched the ultimate messianic trajectory of monotheism. The final step in this trajectory for biological humans is the transfer of the informational content of human biological roots into the memes of a digital computational technology.
The deepest roots of Biblical monotheism demonstrate its deepest rootlessness. Abraham’s willingness to kill his son Isaac at the command of God is the classic demonstration that God is not be confused with family values or biological values. God is not slavery to the laws of genetic preservation. Abraham’s willingness to kill his son represents the ultimate, irreconcilable conflict between genes and memes; the ultimate conflict between the rule of biology and the rule of God. The end logic of monotheism was latent in its beginnings." [Suicide Note]
Death according to the OT and the Bible is not a natural condition of humanity. It is an aberration. When man was created he was not created to die, but to live indefinitely; “just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.” Romans 5:12", while pagan sacrifices understood life and death as what kept the connection between the gods and the humans going... like in the case of Iphigenia as Kierkegaard compared to show why they were different--- here it is Agammemnon's promise to the Gods for favourable auspices, an oath-keeping, than the other way of God asking for a promise, a faith as in the case of Abraham.
The stalling of Isaac's sacrifice was to promise no death would ever come to the believer, etc.
It is a rhetoric where the father portrayed as ready to kill his son is replaced by God's mercy, as the real life-giving, benevolent father.
This is a clear announcement of who is the real Father of all fathers.
The prevention of sacrifice is taken on by Christ's sacrifice was The sacrifice to end all sacrifice.
This morality is what gives Judeo-Xt. its hyper-inflation - the Chosen Ones and the cult of equality where no one is to be sacrificed, killed, because all have either special worth [Judaism] or equal worth [Xt.] in the eyes of God.
In the Old Testament, Satan was the intermediate between God and man. This can be seen in the Book of Job, where God is listening to Satan and doing bad things to Job, all at Satan's Request. God is sort of neutral and is using the council of Satan to test Job for faithfulness. This alliance between God and Satan, started with Lucifer who was the morning star and a very beautiful creation. Satan is evolving and changing. Their relationship ends in Revelations, when Satan is finally throw out of heaven. Revelations happens after the death of Jesus, so Satan still had God's ear when Christ is executed.
If you read the bible, before Jesus started his ministry, he goes into the desert for 40 days to meditate. There he encounters Satan who offers him power, wealth and immortality if he bows and serves Satan. Jesus could have avoided all the pain and death and had a life of power, ease and endless wives, if he agreed to go along with Satan. Satan was still in heaven and would talk to God and get his way.
Had Christ taken the deal, he would have become the Fire and Brimstone Messiah of the Old Testament, expected by the Jews. This Messiah vision would subdue their enemies, and set up a powerful and rich kingdom. The Jews expected a powerful and prestigious Messiah and not a weak and poor one that any man could kill. By refusing the anticipated Messiah offer, Jesus had fore filled prophesies by becoming something that was better.
The path chosen by Jesus, led to Satan getting the boot. Jesus did not what to be a middle man to Satan, but rather a humble servant to the big guy; God. In the end Michael the Archangel escorts Satan out of heaven and Jesus assumes his position in the council of God.
Satan was connected to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which amounts to law. With Satan no longer the intermediate, law of good and evil was made void. The replacement is the spirit of truth, which is neutral and factual instead of emotional. You need to look at the big picture. Jesus had a choice and he chose wisely. This is why he is so well likes; he choose death to free us all for sin since sin is not imputed when there is no law; no Satan and tree of knowledge in Heaven.
It will only make sense when you take into account the Jewish history before Xt.
Heisman wrote:
"God is almost identical with the defining ability to change one’s “source code”. While DNA, the “source code” of biological life, has been largely unchangeable until recently, Judaism took a leap forward with a systematic Mosaic override of the highest rules of behavior. The laws of Moses were an innovation comparable to a prospective artificial intelligence’s ability to change its own source code. By taking a step towards changing the sociobiological source code of the Jews, the non-biological intelligence of Mosaic law launched the ultimate messianic trajectory of monotheism. The final step in this trajectory for biological humans is the transfer of the informational content of human biological roots into the memes of a digital computational technology.
The deepest roots of Biblical monotheism demonstrate its deepest rootlessness. Abraham’s willingness to kill his son Isaac at the command of God is the classic demonstration that God is not be confused with family values or biological values. God is not slavery to the laws of genetic preservation. Abraham’s willingness to kill his son represents the ultimate, irreconcilable conflict between genes and memes; the ultimate conflict between the rule of biology and the rule of God. The end logic of monotheism was latent in its beginnings." [Suicide Note]
Death according to the OT and the Bible is not a natural condition of humanity. It is an aberration. When man was created he was not created to die, but to live indefinitely; “just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.” Romans 5:12", while pagan sacrifices understood life and death as what kept the connection between the gods and the humans going... like in the case of Iphigenia as Kierkegaard compared to show why they were different--- here it is Agammemnon's promise to the Gods for favourable auspices, an oath-keeping, than the other way of God asking for a promise, a faith as in the case of Abraham.
The stalling of Isaac's sacrifice was to promise no death would ever come to the believer, etc.
It is a rhetoric where the father portrayed as ready to kill his son is replaced by God's mercy, as the real life-giving, benevolent father.
This is a clear announcement of who is the real Father of all fathers.
The prevention of sacrifice is taken on by Christ's sacrifice was The sacrifice to end all sacrifice.
This morality is what gives Judeo-Xt. its hyper-inflation - the Chosen Ones and the cult of equality where no one is to be sacrificed, killed, because all have either special worth [Judaism] or equal worth [Xt.] in the eyes of God.
BIGFOOT
You ignore where I refute your garbage and you just add more without dealing with the last.
Nice debate tactic. You never have to show any intelligent thought and can still delude yourself into thinking you are making pints. How sad for you.
Would you kill yourself for your job?
If not then stop saying that Jesus would abandon the majority for a minority.
Regards
DL
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” Winston S. Churchill
Why would he knowingly create beings that require salvation?
The first thing that anyone doubting the authenticity of Christianity would do is doubt God. Though God conceived of his ultimate salvation plan before the Creation, he is all-powerful, ).
You asked this same question on TWC. And I'll say the same thing here that I said there: it's all about context.