Christianity as the message of love

[Yorda]

50-100 years god is dead and no one will really give a damn.

The "Christian" God may be forgotten after some centuries, although it will still exist as a "myth" like the Maya, Sumerian, Egyptian and Greek Gods. Wise people know that all religions talk about the one and the same God. Only the clothes have changed, names have changed. No one says Ptah anymore when they talk about God, but once in Egypt that was as real as Jehova. When we really have found ourselves, the living God inside us, we don't have to talk about it anymore, we will live in truth, and we will be the truth itself.

Old things pass away, then comes the new. The energy is vanishing from the religions of today, but a new teacher will be born, and a new religion will be born. Religions are only a body for the truth, not the truth itself. There is only ONE God, who clothes itself in all forms. The self never dies. Yoga is not a religion, it can't die. In Himalaya there are not spiritual directions, which would be dependant on fashions which come and go. The mission in life is to find oneself.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

darlas: It says in the Bible to "believe by faith, not by sight", so there is no concrete scientific evidence, but even Darwin rejected his own theory and became Christian and Albert Einstein made a case for the Creator.
*************
M*W: Do you have evidence for this?
*************
darlas: Hell is for the devil and his angels, and for those who choose not to accept that Jesus took their sins from them when he died on the cross.
*************
M*W: Can you prove Jesus died on the cross. I think not.
*************
darlas: God cannot look upon sin. By accepting Jesus you become sinless in the eyes of God, for your sins were atoned for at the crucifixion.
*************
M*W: This is bullshit!
*************
darlas: God does not turn his back on you. If you do not repent and instead reject the gift of salvation, you sins are not atoned for and you will be choosing to go to hell, since God cannot look upon sin.
*************
M*W: darlas, you are so full of shit. Why, oh why, would you come to this forum to spill this bullshit? Don't you know you are an idiot? There is no god, and there is no savior. You are totally lost. No salvation for you, my friend.

 

[TheHeretic]

Jenyar;Woody i feel bad for you. Both of you let an imaginary entity control your life. Jenyar i really think your crazy i think you need a perscription for valium or something.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

TheHeretic: Jenyar;Woody i feel bad for you. Both of you let an imaginary entity control your life. Jenyar i really think your crazy i think you need a perscription for valium or something.
*************
M*W: So true, so true! Jenyar is totally deranged and Woody, well, Woody is an idiot. What can I say? These two "xians" are lost and godless. I'd like to see them standing before a firing squad. In fact, I'd like to see every xian standing before a firing squad. They deserve it!!!

 

[TheHeretic]

Yorda. were in a different situation than those ancient religions they failed because there society failed this is cleary a different situation than the current state of christianity. Christianity is being replace by science.

 

[Yorda]

Heretic...

Don't you think science will find "God" too?
What will the science find? Will it only find the universe?
Will it not find the origin of the universe, the human self?
Can't scientists believe in themselves? Can scientists only believe in the universe?

 

[Woody]

Yorda,

I'll give you credit where it is due -- at least you are kind to people. Unfortunately you don't get the same in return because the golden rule doesn't work with antimatter.

I hope you find God in your search, but I really believe you only have one life to do it in.

take care

 

[Yorda]

Thanks, Woody. It's a good thing to believe that you only have one life, that way you may reach God faster.
I think Matthew 17:10-13 says that John is a reincarnation Elijah. What do you think it means?

 

[Woody]

Water said about M*W,

you are showing that you are the mad one, in that you keep repeating the same thing over and over again, and yet you expect a different result?

Water, I heard a good quote today:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result."

Sound familiar? :bugeye:

 

[Woody]

Yorga said,

Thanks, Woody. It's a good thing to believe that you only have one life, that way you may reach God faster.
I think Matthew 17:10-13 says that John is a reincarnation Elijah. What do you think it means?

Ok, I'll try to answer this one. There are two people in the bible that were fortunate enough to leave this world without dieing: one was Elijah and the other was Enoch.

The bible says that it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement -- but what about these two?

In the time of Jesus some people supposed that Elijah had returned as John the Baptist, based on Malichi 4:5:

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Jesus said to the effect that John the Baptist was Elijah, so it is possible that Elijah was incarnated into John the Baptist, but remember that Elijah had not died. It is also possible that John the Baptist had the position of Elijah in his ministry, and this was a metaphorical statement by Jesus.

At the mount of transfiguration, both Moses and Elijah were seen by the disciples that were with Jesus. Hence it seems John the Baptist was not Elijah, but of course John the Baptist was already killed by this time.

However, according to the book of the revelation, there will be two witnesses sent from heaven to earth that have walked on this earth before, and many christians believe those two witnesses will be none other than Elijah and Enoch, who have not experienced death yet. Some might argue that Moses and Elijah will be the two witnesses, but we know both witnesses will be put to death, hence Moses dies twice.

There will also be a group of people that never experience death, and they will be taken straight to heaven during the great tribulation period.

 

[stretched]

Woody,

Quote W:
"There will also be a group of people that never experience death, and they will be taken straight to heaven during the great tribulation period.'

I feel sincere sorrow for you Woody. Disappointment is a hardcore emotion.

Allcare.

 

[Jenyar]

It's telling -- seeing so much hatred and resentment in response to my post. What could be so offensive about it? If I had to guess...

In the first place, because it requires that God exists, which is by default offensive to many -- whoever and however He might be. Their faith is in science (specifically modern science, coupled with the post-modern worldview), and they would stake everything on it. If one takes the modern (20th century) method for granted, one's first reaction is almost programmed to be outrage and indignation. This initial reaction then colours anything further that might be said. A prejudice against what we cannot see through our looking glass effectively disables one from seeing anything more. This presupposes conflict, as if the modern model should be "common sense" and anything else "madness".

The existence of a loving God would mean all "religious" arguments against God would lose their power. Arguments like SnakeLord's or M*W's, that depend on God being only vengeful and hateful -- such rejection of God relies on God being rejectionable to seem reasonable. A loving God makes that argument very difficult to hold. The Pharisees also had the law, and applied it extremely strictly, but they also didn't account for God's love. This is why Jesus said:

Matthew 23:23
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practised the latter, without neglecting the former.​

Focussing on the law and neglecting love has the consequence of shutting God out of people's lives, instead of letting Him in when He is most needed.

Matt.23:13-15
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. ... You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.​

 

[Woody]

Stretched,

I feel sincere sorrow for you Woody. Disappointment is a hardcore emotion.

Stretched, How am I disappointed with Jesus? It hasn't happened yet, though there have been many opportunities.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Yorda]

Jesus said to the effect that John the Baptist was Elijah, so it is possible that Elijah was incarnated into John the Baptist, but remember that Elijah had not died.

It's true that Elijah himself did not die, but what about his earthly body? Will people who come to heaven take their bodies with them?

 

[duendy]

haha...you mean like as in 'ok, you lot who are coming to heaven. please will you meet in the cafeteria and make suree you have your body to bring wih you"

this is toooo freaky

 

[TheHeretic]

Yorda science will never prove a god exists. It will never prove that it doesnt exist either because you cant prove something doesnt exist. If i believe in little gnomes that steal my socks at night there is no way anyone can disprove that.

 

[Woody]

Yorda asked,

It's true that Elijah himself did not die, but what about his earthly body? Will people who come to heaven take their bodies with them?

Good question, and the bible has answers. We can discuss this offline if you wish, and I have a mail box. To get there you can click on my name, (next to my avatar).

The bible says flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God, and that our corruptible bodies can not inherit incorruption. (Ist Corinthians 15:50)

Jesus is the example of immortality. His body was transfigured after he died, and yet it was still a physical body. He sat down and ate a meal with his disciples. Mark16:14, Luke24:41&42, John Chapter 21. He could appear and vanish at will.

In heaven, those who have trusted Jesus will be made like him. They will have a body, a soul, and a spirit incarnate. The spirit and the soul are not the same thing. Every human has a soul, but only those who have accepted God's gift of life within themselves have a spirit. This is referred to as the new birth or being "born again." It is a spiritual birth, and the spirit actually belongs to God himself. I am born again -- I share my body and soul with his spirit, and there is no pretense -- because I want it that way. The spirit within me is what gives me new life, and it is a good, decent, and kind spirit. Without it I was just another person destined for a life without God.

I hope this is answering your question. I am not afraid to testify about my faith to anyone -- regardless of the sneers, remarks, unkind things that are said, because I know those people rejected Jesus before they rejected me. It is not my personal issue -- rather it is their personal issue with the God I believe in. Jesus too was rejected, shouldn't I expect the same?

take care and God bless

 

[Jolly Rodger]

Christianity as the message of love



There is something that has always irked me when it comes to Christianity: its image of being a message of love, a faith of love.

Lovey-dovey, one might think.

But how in all this does God's severe judgement fit in? If God is loving -- why then does He sent some to hell?! How can God be so cruel to let people suffer, starve, murder eachother; how can God let tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, droughts and so on happen -- if He is to be a good God?!
Either there is no God, or God isn't loving at all. Or?

Next, we have the Christian tradition -- the Inquisition, the forceful conversions: Acts of love?



Christians, I challenge you to clear up this "message of love"!
Is Christianity indeed a "message of love and peace" -- or is this some perverted idea -- or how are we to understand such statements?

You have never hurt some one you love?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jenyar: It's telling -- seeing so much hatred and resentment in response to my post. What could be so offensive about it? If I had to guess...
*************
M*W: Your posts are offensive because they are fictional stories from your deluded mind. However, I will credit you with creative writing abilities. Your subject matter is offensive because it is nothing but lies... lies that you believe to be true, that are simply figments of your delusions.
*************
Jenyar: In the first place, because it requires that God exists, which is by default offensive to many -- whoever and however He might be. Their faith is in science (specifically modern science, coupled with the post-modern worldview), and they would stake everything on it.
*************
M*W: You assume a lot, don't you? You think you know god, but you assume the concept -- just like you assume to know the members of sciforums and our personal philosophies. You have created an image of a higher power in your mind, and you've created "Him" (your male god) with feelings, emotions, rationality, judgment, and so on... Your god seems so real to you and the handful of other xian members who share in the delusion.
*************
Jenyar: The existence of a loving God would mean all "religious" arguments against God would lose their power. Arguments like SnakeLord's or M*W's, that depend on God being only vengeful and hateful -- such rejection of God relies on God being rejectionable to seem reasonable.
*************
M*W: There you go again, tap dancing ever faster to give the allusion that you can prove a gods existence. The other atheists and I don't 'reject' a god. We don't believe it exists to reject it. How can one reject something that doesn't exist?
*************
Jenyar: A loving God makes that argument very difficult to hold. The Pharisees also had the law, and applied it extremely strictly, but they also didn't account for God's love. This is why Jesus said:
*************
M*W: Quote deleted. You don't know, in fact, what Jesus might have said. Everything in the NT was written or influenced by Paul.
*************
Jenyar: Focussing on the law and neglecting love has the consequence of shutting God out of people's lives, instead of letting Him in when He is most needed.
*************
M*W: Again, you are assuming or creating these delusions in your mind. Obviously, you've let these storybook characters into your mind, and they've created your delusions. There's a great drug on the market called Seroquel. You need it desperately to get rid of your demons.

 

[Woody]

Heretic said,

Jenyar;Woody i feel bad for you. Both of you let an imaginary entity control your life. Jenyar i really think your crazy i think you need a perscription for valium or something.

Jenyar, does this person show us he cares about others? Maybe he does, but it just remains to be seen.

People thought Columbus was crazy when he said the earth was round. Nobody could see it hence he was a deluded man according to everyone else.

And lookie, the Flat Earth Society finally died, when was it? the 1970's? According to flat-earthers the moon mission was all a big masquerade. Space photographs were all contrived. Weightlessness in space was a hollywood trick. The landing at the moon was a hollywood set, the spacecraft were all landed safely in a remote location after take off (they really did not go into space). There was a logical explanation for everything they believed, just like people can explain away everything about the bible.

And this dude, named Heretic, is going to tell us the same about our God that we know exists, and call us crazy because he hasn't seen it with his own eyeballs. Then he says he's sorry for us. We're sorry that he doesn't have eternal life. So everybody agrees to be sorry for someone.

At least we have a little bit of common ground to work with.

If i believe in little gnomes that steal my socks at night there is no way anyone can disprove that.

Now come on, you don't believe that, why would a gnome want dirty socks anyway? **Blink **Blink Now I get the connection -- if you give a ridiculous, unrealistic example, then the responder is forced to give a ridiculous unrealistic response, or appear like he can not answer the question directly when it is really just a smokescreen. In Conclusion: an answer is not wanted though a question is asked. So why bother answering it at all?