Jenyar: God loves us, but He is also just.
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M*W: You know, Jenyar, for nearly four years now I have been reading your posts, and it is becoming more and more obvious that you are consumed by your fantasy god. You believe you know how your god feels and what he thinks about humanity. You even appear to have an inside voice of your god's judgment of sin. You've created this image of god to suit your religious addictions. That's sad, because ultimately you are not existing in a state of conscious reality.
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Jenyar: Judgment comes in where there is sin and transgression, which are exposed by laws. God's laws show his nature -- it shows us where we stand with Him. This is a relationship, and like any relationship it can be soured or strengthened. God gives us life; without God there is and would be no life. It is that life that we had in God that dies when sin owns us, and without God, we will die with it. Whether by natural causes or by natural causes (is there such a thing as unnatural causes?), violent or peaceful, during wars, famine, or in our sleep; we all die. We could ask why God allows it, but then we must also ask why God allows life. This earth, sometimes hostile and overwhelming as it is to us, nevertheless fostered and sustains biological life. But it is unaware of us; its forces do not act around us. It does what it needs to and gives what is has, but it is not God. We can't have nature and not need God.
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M*W: You fantasize knowing god's 'nature,' and this is ridiculous. This even goes beyond reality! Please explain to the members of this forum god's 'nature.' We'd all like to know how the insane perceive god.
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Jenyar: There is also little doubt that there is real evil in the world. There are people who choose chaos and destruction as a way of life, and there are people who choose their own will above God's will. Now we come back to God's laws. If God's will that we love Him, and each other, were only a preference, then we could rightfully ask why there are consequences. But God requires it, love and peace requires it; fairness requires justice, and justice requires a judge.
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M*W: I can't help but laugh when I read your posts, and believe me, the only reason I read your posts is for a laugh! You write as if you are god's lawyer. You're explaining how god works! You try to defend god's 'preferences,' even those with 'consequences!' It's ludicrous.
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Jenyar: The question is now why God allows people to act against Him, and therefore against other people. The answer is that God also allows people to act for Him, according to His will.
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M*W: Here, you're speaking for your fantasy god. How the hell do you know who/what god is, and why do you fake your knowledge/perception of a god? You can't even prove a god exists -- but it truly does exist -- in your mind!
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Jenyar: To love and to show their character. The world isn't divided into criminals and saints, there are only people. Some voluntarily place themselves under a law, they regulate their own behaviour and have their behaviour regulated, others live according to their own law, or outside the law. What they do show who they are, and God will judge them accordingly. But we shouldn't confuse our justice with God's justice. The existence of evil doesn't mean it is tolerated, only that its final judgment is delayed.
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M*W: Talk about a waffler! God kills us and makes us suffer, but he loves us, yeah right. What a friggin' idiot you are. Have you ever heard Shakespeare's quote, "s/he doth protest too much." That's what you do. You have appointed yourself in the defense of your god. He's YOUR god -- not ours, and we know he doesn't exist!
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Jenyar: The irony is that God is called "cruel" both for judging evil and for allowing it. People want it both ways. Just enough tolerance for a little evil, enough to allow some freedom of choice -- a quick lie, a spout of unfaithfulness, a little selfishness -- but not enough for something to go horribly wrong, not enough for the consequences to ever become fully realized. With this mentality, people remain pampered little children who know they could not bear the weight of responsibility once their sins have outgrown them.
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M*W: Jenyar, get psychiatric help! You've created this fantasy god in your head, and that's the only place it is! You're imagining what other people do and how/why they sin. Bottom line, I think you have a god-complex! Kinda like the one Norman Bates had with his Mother. This is how I see you and your god. You're a mighty arrogant SOB. If you look like you have a split personality, and you walk like you have a split personality, and you talk like you have a split personality, by dammit, you have a split personality! Get help!!!
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Jenyar: And the consequences for sin is death, and death without God is hell. Hell has become the symbol of everything God cannot tolerate, everything He despises, everything that is not Him and away from Him. The Jews and Christians, like Jesus himself, borrowed from sources around them to describe this state.
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M*W: You really believe you are god! From where do you get your knowledge of god? Did he come to you in a dream? Did you see angels hovering over you? You really are deep into your fantasies.
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Jenyar: Although atrocities committed in the name of Christianity are not automatically more evil than those committed under any other name, they are evidence of the same degeneracy, and the people involved are no doubt subject to the same judgment. The criterium will not be whether one professed to know God, but whether God in fact knows you.
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M*W: So, you're saying that god knows you. Um huh. So please tell us how god knows you and you alone. How easy is that? God knows you. Tell us what god thinks about you, Jenyar, and what he would like to see you do with your life. And, while you're at it, cite some evidence, please.
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Jenyar: What we should learn from such examples is not to confuse man's application of justice (or lack of it) with God's judgment. That we can judge such crimes with some objectivity is a clue that we rely on a higher justice, but it should also be a clue that we should not rely too much on our own objectivity. It's that "superiority" that would deny that we will be judged by the same measure we use. God has the final word.
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M*W: So how will god judge the almighty prophet Jenyar? Seems like Jenyar is the only member of this forum who thinks he knows god personally. Then, that means the rest of us are doomed. After all, this is YOUR god.
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Jenyar: This "message of love" is based on a shallow understanding of the Bible, and more specifically a misunderstanding of Christ himself. The hippies also advocated "love and peace", yet their 'message' was far removed from Christianity.
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M*W: You have no idea what the hippies advocated. You weren't born then. I was there, I wore the beads and headbands. I burned my bra. I went to Woodstock. You are so deeply intrapped in the inner dark recesses of your sick mind, there really is no hope for someone like you. If there was a god, he'd definitely freak out when he saw you!
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Jenyar: Jesus did not preach love first, He preached judgment and repentence. He was the answer to the problem posed by the law: are you perfect? He was God's answer to the problem of suffering and injustice. When we suffer, we do not want scientific reasons and philosophical explanations, we want love, care, and healing. The healthy do not need a doctor. If you are perfect, you do not expect punishment or fear justice, but no perfection makes you immune to being a victim of sin or death. It's no coincidence that we feel life at its most glorious and meaningful when experience love, not when our conscience is clearest.
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M*W: You don't know what Jesus preached! All you know is what Paul wrote. If you want to know what Jesus actually said, read the Gnostic Gospels. Your last sentence says an awful lot about the split in your psyche. It's obvious that you are a lost soul.
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Jenyar: While we focus on the ideal, on "heaven", the contrast of suffering, pain and injustice become shockingly evident and offensive. But without such a backdrop we would not notice it. Even the word "conscience" means "with knowledge". In fact, we are so confident in our ability to discern between right and wrong, that we would even hold God to it if we could. But if we put man up as the ideal, the individual becomes supreme and the law loses, and if we put the law up as the ideal, control and authority becomes supreme and man loses; there is no man just or powerful enough to trust with enforcing the world.
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M*W: You have a lot of mixed messages in this post. You have made an effort to show the polar extremes which is obvious that your consciousness is constantly being torn between your options. You are psychologically being pulled apart by your own guilt and fear of no redemption. That's why you defend it so. You defend your fantasy. That's where you live.
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Jenyar: People question God's wisdom for choosing to suffer with us and for us, rather than simply take us out of the world or "fixing" it (us). But instead of admitting defeat -- as if God cannot deal with suffering or imperfection and therefore neither can we -- God came to be with us. In the first place, He became sin for us, satisfying the requirement of perfect law, and He gave us the comfort and hope of knowing that our suffering is not in vain. Now He is not only waiting at the other end of life -- the perfect, righteous and enlightened end -- He also came under us, below us, to the death-end, to patiently support and catch us when we fall. So God is the beginning and the end, encompassing all. Everything from the worst sinner to the angels themselves. This is His love: that He enabled, not disabled us; gave meaning, not sidestepped it; He did not take away the victory from us, and through Christ we never have an excuse to admit defeat...
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M*W: This is your fantasy -- not ours. It is really offensive when you preach in between the lines of your posts. All you're doing is trying to convince yourself that there really is a god. You protest too much, so you're obviously in conflict with your own mind. Get help!
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Jenyar: This frees us from whatever we fear, and permits us to love. "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment." If we have to be freed at such a terrible cost, then it must mean that what we must be freed from is otherwise very real and threatening.
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M*W: Jenyar, you need help. You are propagating your fantasies of a god onto the rest of us. Your god is not who we want to hear about. You've created an entire personality of your god and are trying to sell it online. You've failed miserably. If you want to do some good, prove that a god exists. If a god existed, it wouldn't be yours alone, and we would all understand it. But to create a god in your mind, and then try to rampantly sell your creation is delusional. Seriously delusional. Good typing and sophisticated vocabulary cannot a true god make, and its a waste of the forum's time.
