Child/Adult Sexual Contact and Evidence

[S.A.M.]

To begin with the child and the adult would need to figure it out, which is not always so easy.
Lewd thoughts cross minds from time to time.
Sexual arousal may occur suddenly, out of the blue, unforeseen.

Speaking as a parent with occasion to think in these terms I would allow a great deal of leeway for fear that the stress of negative attention damages more than mild abuse, but each to his own, all inevitably a matter of discretion.

--- Ron.

It may sound incredibly naive, but I had no idea of the scope of this problem until just a few years back ( I'm in my mid-thirties).

Do parents have lewd thoughts about children? I don't even claim to understand pedophilia; but what about other adults?

 

[perplexity]

Do parents have lewd thoughts about children? I don't even claim to understand pedophilia; but what about other adults?

This is the same sort of problem: what is or is not a lewd thought?

A father knows that his teenage daughter is sexually attractive in much the same way that anybody else would.

--- Ron.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well I guess a problem would be if he started fantasizing about her.

A lot of people are sexually attractive, but does that translate to a desire to have sex with them?

 

[perplexity]

A lot of people are sexually attractive, but does that translate to a desire to have sex with them?

Essentially, yes it does, apart from the repression.

Why else would the Muslim women cover themselves?

If you doubt it visit for instance a religious discussion forum to behold the stress of those with a sincere desire not to suffer the desire, except that......etc.

---- Ron.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think what you are talking about (repression) cannot be associated to a desire to have sex with a child; an adult who preys on children for sex will likely have other issues e.g. low self esteem.

It seems unlikely (to me) that a healthy desire for sex can be so pervasive that it cannot distinguish between a child and an adult.

P.S. the Muslim women covering themselves is more about modesty and self respect, its related more to the preceived morals of a woman; however, even in the Middle East the women do not cover themselves before their close relatives and at home. If you notice, the men are also fully covered; again about modesty and perceived morality.

 

[Athiest Hater #1]

You people are sick, child molesting punks. If you EVER did anything like taht, you DESERVE to die.

 

[q0101]

How then do you distinguish? Affection is affection. The two varieties do not exist in separate compartments. Perhaps in another twenty or thirty years you get to a better realisation of this, when the largest part of sex is the ordinary affection of it and the horny bit is an extra if he is lucky enough to be fit to manage it.

There are different kinds of affection. Everything that we feel and experience in life is the result of chemical reactions within our bodies. The two primary chemicals involved in non-sexual affection are oxytocin and serotonin. This affection does not become sexual until high levels of testosterone are released into your bloodstream. The release of the testosterone can be triggered by visual stimuli. (An attractive minor wearing revealing clothing) The visual stimuli can make you to have inappropriate sexual thoughts. If you’re a responsible parent or adult, an area in your brain that is called the orbitofrontal cortex will become active when the testosterone is released into your bloodstream. The orbitofrontal cortex inhibits inappropriate actions. It is located in an area of the brain that allows us to consciously control some of the chemical reactions in our body. (The prefrontal cortex)

Serotonin would be released after your orbitofrontal cortex becomes active. The serotonin would prevent the chemical reaction that would have occurred in your body if you became sexual aroused. Some of the chemicals that would be involved in an inappropriate sexual arousal are dopamine, adrenaline, and cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone. The dopamine would give you the motivation to commit an inappropriate sexual act. The adrenaline and cortisol would be present if the a person is aware of the fact that he or she is doing something wrong. The thought of doing something wrong can make some people become even more sexual aroused. (More testosterone)

 

[Athiest Hater #1]

Freaks you are freaks. Relations of this kind with small children, horrible! Unforgivable! Dastardly! Impossibly Outrageous!

 

[thedevilsreject]

wow finally something that comes out of your mouth thats true, although its the sought of thing that would come out of a racist 8 year olds mouth

 

[perplexity]

There are different kinds of affection. Everything that we feel and experience in life is the result of chemical reactions within our bodies. The two primary chemicals involved in non-sexual affection are oxytocin and serotonin. This affection does not become sexual until high levels of testosterone are released into your bloodstream......

OK then, so somebody on trial for sexual abuse stands up in the dock and he pleads "not guilty, the chemicals involved were none but oxytocin and serotonin."

How then would he hope to prove this to my satisfaction, as the foreman of the jury?

---- Ron.

 

[S.A.M.]

You could show him child porno and test his claim?

( I don't believe this can actually be done, though)

 

[q0101]

Freaks you are freaks. Relations of this kind with small children, horrible! Unforgivable! Dastardly! Impossibly Outrageous!

What does the Sci in Sciforums stand for? I think it stands for science. If you can't talk about the problems in our society in a rational scientific way then you should probably post your comments somewhere else. I believe in free speech but your comments are useless.

 

[perplexity]

I think what you are talking about (repression) cannot be associated to a desire to have sex with a child; an adult who preys on children for sex will likely have other issues e.g. low self esteem.

It seems unlikely (to me) that a healthy desire for sex can be so pervasive that it cannot distinguish between a child and an adult.

In which case you would appear to suppose that the distinction in terms of a healthy desire corresponds to the distinction in law. I am not so sure though that there is such a broad consensus on that account.

The original challenge was to make a claim and provide any direct and/or indirect evidence that shows that there is physical, emotional and/or psychological harm that occurs.

What I have been trying to propose here is that harm is done by the very attempt to cope with the issue.

Some people "abused" as children are actually content enough to have been be so, I have met with some myself, abused by an uncle or an older friend, while others are notoriously traumatised by similar events, and the difference I fear is not so much in what took place, the abuse per se, but rather in the social pressure, the anticipation of disapproval and subsequent judicial attention.

--- Ron.

 

[S.A.M.]

In which case you would appear to suppose that the distinction in terms of a healthy desire corresponds to the distinction in law. I am not so sure though that there is such a broad consensus on that account.

The original challenge was to make a claim and provide any direct and/or indirect evidence that shows that there is physical, emotional and/or psychological harm that occurs.

What I have been trying to propose here is that harm is done by the very attempt to cope with the issue.

Some people "abused" as children are actually content enough to have been be so, I have met with some myself, abused by an uncle or an older friend, while others are notoriously traumatised by similar events, and the difference I fear is not so much in what took place, the abuse per se, but rather in the social pressure, the anticipation of disapproval and subsequent judicial attention.

--- Ron.

Was age a factor in how the people coped with childhood abuse?

 

[q0101]

OK then, so somebody on trial for sexual abuse stands up in the dock and he pleads "not guilty, the chemicals involved were none but oxytocin and serotonin."

How then would he hope to prove this to my satisfaction, as the foreman of the jury?

---- Ron.

There is a procedure that the law enforcement in Colorado U.S.A use to determine if a person is sexual attracted to children. They put something around the penis of a man and they show him sexual explicit pictures of minors. It measures the blood flow to the penis. I think it is an ineffective procedure because some men may get erections while viewing the sexual explicit material despite the fact that he is not sexual attracted to children. And I have to wonder what kind of child pornography they are showing to the men? I think 90% or more of the men that are not sexual attracted to pre-pubesant children would not get an erection. But 75% or more of the men watching a young teenager with breast and pubic hair would probably get an erection. A psychological test in combination with some kind of functional magnetic resonance imaging would be more effective.

 

[perplexity]

Was age a factor in how the people coped with childhood abuse?

In general it would be. I think that goes without saying.
"Child abuse" is a horribly clumsy stereotype.
I suspect that the very first experience of sex is most often between children of different ages, and well before pubescence.

--- Ron.

 

[perplexity]

.....They put something around the penis of a man and they show him sexual explicit pictures of minors. ........ And I have to wonder what kind of child pornography they are showing to the men? ....

This to me is dubious because of the importance of the narrative. A large part of the exitement would arise from the circumstance; the sense of danger, mischief and dominance.

--- Ron.

 

[S.A.M.]

This to me is dubious because of the importance of the narrative. A large part of the exitement would arise from the circumstance; the sense of danger, mischief and dominance.

--- Ron.

Hmm it seems that it is hard to objectively accuse someone of child abuse based on physical reaction; what then are the options available. I understand your concerns about policing by over zealous self-appointed guardians and it seems to me that the excessive concerns over abuse have led to a deterioration in the normal range of relationships which a child may have with adults he/she knows. This would turn into a vicious cycle, with children having even more limited exposure to healthy relationships and a greater likelihood of exposing themselves to abuse from strangers or relatives who offer "affection".

Seems like we're between a rock and a hard place.

 

[nubianconcubine]

This is the same sort of problem: what is or is not a lewd thought?

A father knows that his teenage daughter is sexually attractive in much the same way that anybody else would.

--- Ron.

dude, the difference lies in the fact that a good father eho realized his daughter was hot would immediately begin thinking of ways to keep this realization out of the minds of her male peers. a pedophiliac father would be attracted. both, however would probably appreciate...to themselves

 

[nubianconcubine]

What does the Sci in Sciforums stand for? I think it stands for science. If you can't talk about the problems in our society in a rational scientific way then you should probably post your comments somewhere else. I believe in free speech but your comments are useless.

i just want you to know that right now i really like you.