Both Muslim AND Christian?

one_raven said:
Which is why I said:
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I dunno. Maybe he was. Doesn't mean everything in there is exactly as it happened. I think I could believe that generally it was the same God, but not that everything within is true.

Apparently even all the Christians don't think Jesus is God. Does that mean they are not Christians?

Also do Christians reject the OT? Did Jesus?
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Not "the law" as I understand - but Deuterotomy ain't th' law. As for whether or not they're Christians: they are. But the implication is that all Christianity and Islam is close, and it isn't. The shahada cuts a pretty clear demarcation that way, notwithstanding that the trinity isn't really polytheism. How is it that this God fellow is capable of so much, including the creation of the universe, but can't be three representative facets? It's amusing that islam seems to feel that God is bound by nothing - the Platonian model? - yet must be bound only in this instance. Why is that?
 
Maybe representing the Christian-Islamic system as a polyvariable ordinal set with directionality would be most appropriate.

But she'd still get the ol' chop in Riyadh, is what I'm saying.
 
one_raven said:
That, in my opinion, is one of the biggest, most important, unanswered questions of Jesus' philosophy.

Here's one widely disputed clue...

NIV Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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I don´t think is unanswered man!
Althought is a little confusing.

Moses tought people to wear masks in order to be good. But inside, they were still ugly. Moses tought people they can wear masks in order to set the foundations of a higher truth. Jesus came here saying you could become beautiful from the inside, with no need for masks.

Pharisees were the ones following Moses law the most, but they were so full of it, their egos were the biggest ones. They judged everybody by those standards on which they judge themselves.

Jesus came converting water into wine, he was talking about inner-transformation, not just superficial.

Like when he said:
"You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27)."

He was talking about being good from the inside, not just pretend to be good. Because those who pretend to be good, and are not good in their hearts, are the ones fooling themselves.

Like the example I always put: Priests that say sex is evil, and at the same time look at woman with lusty eyes more than anyone.
The bramacharya is an ideal, that it happens when you are conscient, fully aware, but it just doesn´t happen if you just pretend to be one. That is fooling yourself.
 
The Law IS Mosaic law, you got that right.
Mosaic Law, however, is considered the whole of the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament that are attributed to Moses).
The "main part" of The Law (where Kosher rules and such are set forth) is Leviticus, but Genesis through Deuteronomy is The Law.
 
Sam,

Are you looking for specific chapter and verse quotes that some people interpret to support the idea of the Trinity?
 
one_raven said:
The Law IS Mosaic law, you got that right.
Mosaic Law, however, is considered the whole of the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament that are attributed to Moses).
The "main part" of The Law (where Kosher rules and such are set forth) is Leviticus, but Genesis through Deuteronomy is The Law.
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Maybe but how can it be? OT - stoning. NT - JC he say "no stone no more". So how can it be the same? Stoning's in what? Deut or Leviticus?
 
one_raven said:
How does creating the Trinity do that?
Formation of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, sure, but the Trinity specifically? I don't see how.
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It's just something they decided on. It was inferred from the text. The belief was pretty widespread: it's hard to say if it's right or wrong, or right or wrong on that basis. That's why I think a more minimalist binitarian model is more appropriate. Ultimately, though, I don't think it matters all that much.
 
one_raven said:
That's a very long, convoluted, story.

Blame the Catholics
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The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.

The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:

There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P. G., X, 986).
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Wow, I cannot even comprehend it.:eek:
 
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