Both Muslim AND Christian?

[sandy]

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam.

To a Muslim, the God of the Bible who is described as triune is offensive and pagan, reminding them of what Mohammed destroyed. Allah is not called Yahweh once in the Koran but neither is Yahweh called Allah in the Bible. So they can't be the same God. The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. Allah has no son. God does. His name is Jesus Christ.:worship:

http://www.letusreason.org/Islam6.htm

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Oh God, what a pitty.

I don´t know which God I was reffering to, was that "your" God or "Islamic" God?
Or Zarathustra´s God, whom is already "dead". So is "your" God dead? Jesus is certainly dead.

 

[pjdude1219]

i just love when people try to act as if their bigotry is reasonable. its cute in the same way a guy on hullicegins tries to walk through walls cept the later has more of an excuse for being unreasonable

 

[SkinWalker]

I still can't possibly conceive of the idea how anyone could be both.
Most of our beliefs are completely opposite of each other's.

My God is NOT the god of Islam.

And you can delude yourself into thinking it is. It's not. My God is NOT the god of Muhammed. You just don't get it.

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam.

To a Muslim, the God of the Bible who is described as triune is offensive and pagan, reminding them of what Mohammed destroyed. Allah is not called Yahweh once in the Koran but neither is Yahweh called Allah in the Bible. So they can't be the same God. The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. Allah has no son. God does. His name is Jesus Christ.:worship:

Such ignorance almost makes me embarrassed to be of the same primate species. However, I can concede that a lifetime of indoctrination into a cult doctrine can have the effect of creating a bias so great as to remove the capacity for reason and critical thought.

The reason the "gods" have different names in the two books is primarily because the languages are different. The gods of Christianity have various names as well: Yahweh, Elohim, Jesus, Moses, Satan, etc. -with the primary god sharing the names Yahweh and Elohim. The latter two names are Jewish and used within the Torah by the "J" and "E" authors, respectively. The difference was probably due to geographic variance in antiquity (highlands versus lowlands; northern vs. southern; etc.)

The name "Allah" is Arabic rather than Jewish, but is a cognate to one of the Jewish names, Elohim. "Al" and "El" are both the. The word "al" and the Arabic word for god are joined al + ilah to form allah. The word "el" is joined to the Hebrew word for god: el + loah to form eloah. Both words are ultimately transformed from the feminine to the masculine (eloah becomes elohim) plural forms. The etymology of both words have origin in earlier polytheistic cultures.

The myths of both cults acknowledge the same origins of the same mythical gods and the same mythical characters such as Abraham, Adam, Eve, Noah, etc.

Clearly, both mythologies are referring to the same god.

 

[one_raven]

Such ignorance almost makes me embarrassed to be of the same primate species. However, I can concede that a lifetime of indoctrination into a cult doctrine can have the effect of creating a bias so great as to remove the capacity for reason and critical thought.

No such excuse.
She's a convert.

 

[SkinWalker]

I read where she said that, too, but that isn't believable. Most who claim this are already believers but when they go through the cult practice of renewal called "being saved" or "born again," evangelicals will often claim that they were previously doubters, unbelievers, or even atheists when they were no such thing. This is a self-delusion of piety that they feel they must rise to in order to be accepted into their new cult group.

Now, this would be considered off-topic to this point, but it really isn't since this is a symptom of the evangelical cult as is denial that the "god" of another cult isn't the same as the god of their own. Islamic evangelicals do much the same as there needs to be a delineation between the evangelical and those religious cults with whom they disagree. There are also delineations present between evangelical cults and the other cults within their religion (i.e. b/w evangelical baptists and catholics) where the evangelicals reject them as "true christians."

All very fascinating stuff. I'm thinking of writing a paper solely on evangelical cults and common characteristics across religions.

 

[sandy]

Such ignorance almost makes me embarrassed to be of the same primate species....

I thought mods and members were not allowed to personally attack other members.

Just because you don't believe in God doesn't give you any right to cr@p all over me and mine.

I don't personally attack you or your unbelief.

 

[pjdude1219]

I thought mods and members were not allowed to personally attack other members.

Just because you don't believe in God doesn't give you any right to cr@p all over me and mine.

I don't personally attack you or your unbelief.

yeah yeah you do get clue in fact get a whole box i heard they come in 20 packs at wallmart for three fifty

 

[one_raven]

I thought mods and members were not allowed to personally attack other members.

Just because you don't believe in God doesn't give you any right to cr@p all over me and mine.

I don't personally attack you or your unbelief.

That's was not a personal attack of you, it was directed at what you have to say - there is a HUGE difference.

Besides, it doesn't even apply to you - you don't believe you ARE a primate.

 

[SkinWalker]

I thought mods and members were not allowed to personally attack other members.

Just because you don't believe in God doesn't give you any right to cr@p all over me and mine.

I don't personally attack you or your unbelief.

I didn't "personally attack" you. I attacked your ignorance. Then I provided you with an education, to which you apparently have nothing to say or add.

And, actually, your willingness to publicly discuss your delusions and superstitions gives me every right to criticize them and even ridicule them.

 

[GeoffP]

To be a Muslim all you need is a belief in one God and an acceptance that Mohammed was his messenger. If you accept Mohammed as a prophet but are a Christian or a Jew, essentially that makes you a Muslim. The Injeel (gospels) and the Torah are considered holy by Muslims. Jesus is another prophet for us. But Islam recognises that Christians ascribe divinity to Jesus. However they are still People of the Book, i.e. followers of the same God.

So according to Islam, it is not impossible to be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time.

How does that then jive with not making "partners to God" in the shahada? Having trouble believing this would be accepted anywhere but in the US.

 

[GeoffP]

Can you please explain to us what separates the 'Christian' God from the Islamic God?

Christian one says "turn the other cheek".

Islamic one says "slay the unbelievers wherever you find them".

Anyway, it's fine that there's an acceptance of this minister by local muslims. In fact, it's encouraging. But let her try to tell them that Jesus is God. That's where the acceptance would break down. One could say she was a Christian in the way that an Arian or somesuch would be, but - not to say that these can't be right - it's not the general impression. Let her tell the President of al-Ahzar the same, and see what happens.

 

[one_raven]

Christian one says "turn the other cheek".

Islamic one says "slay the unbelievers wherever you find them".

Come on...
You know better than that.

Deuteronomy 13:12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

As I said, if you think Jesus' dad was the God of the Old Testament, it is the same God.

 

[S.A.M.]

How does that then jive with not making "partners to God" in the shahada? Having trouble believing this would be accepted anywhere but in the US.

It must be your world travel that gives you this impression I'm sure.

Otherwise you might have heard of dargas and people like Sai Baba and Kabir, among others.

 

[GeoffP]

Come on...
You know better than that.

Deuteronomy 13:12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

As I said, if you think Jesus' dad was the God of the Old Testament, it is the same God.

I think if I were any kind of Christian theist, I'd reject all that out of hand. Or in other words: fuck that noise. If you're into the whole Jesus-message, it's forgive the sinner, turn the other cheek, love your neighbour, not slaughter him. (And don't cite Luke 18; so tacky.) If I were a Christian, I'd just say that it wasn't from God and whatnot.

Sammiekins!

It must be your world travel that gives you this impression I'm sure.

Otherwise you might have heard of dargas and people like Sai Baba and Kabir, among others.

Maybe so! Been lots of places. Did they accept the divinity of Christ? Did they say "You know, that J.C.: he's definitely God." Gotta link?

 

[GeoffP]

Let me clarify too on the above: if Jesus comes back and he's all into the peace and loving thing, then it tanks the OT where there's disagreement. Call it abrogation if you like.

 

[one_raven]

I think if I were any kind of Christian theist, I'd reject all that out of hand. Or in other words: fuck that noise. If you're into the whole Jesus-message, it's forgive the sinner, turn the other cheek, love your neighbour, not slaughter him. (And don't cite Luke 18; so tacky.) If I were a Christian, I'd just say that it wasn't from God and whatnot.

Which is why I said:

if you think Jesus' dad was the God of the Old Testament, it is the same God.

 

[S.A.M.]

Apparently even all the Christians don't think Jesus is God. Does that mean they are not Christians?

Also do Christians reject the OT? Did Jesus?

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Apparently even all the Christians don't think Jesus is God. Does that mean they are not Christians?

Also do Christians reject the OT? Did Jesus?

No, Jesus didn´t reject the OT. He only improved it.
A truth has to be broken in order for a higher truth to emerge.

 

[one_raven]

Also do Christians reject the OT? Did Jesus?

That, in my opinion, is one of the biggest, most important, unanswered questions of Jesus' philosophy.

Here's one widely disputed clue...

NIV Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.