Trilairian said:
Yes, but you said you are using the word "cult" only to mean "a religious system of worship." I'm pointing out the fact that the word "cult" usually means a dangerous ego-sect like that of the Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate, or Jim Jones in Guyana. You would have people believing that Mormons are ready to drink poisoned cool-aid or cut off their genitalia so they can meet up with aliens from the mothership.
There simply is no definition of the word "cult" that is not subjective and negative. It means, "A religion I don't like." Period. Otherwise you are just saying, "Your religion is a religion!" Which doesn't really tell us much.
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
Trilairian said:
So you are saying that he did translate it and got those sections exactly the same as KJV and when he then translated sections of the KJV they came out different. lolMarlin said:
Yes he did.
Changing the sections of the bible for the JST that he had included in the book of Mormon was a blunder.
Cult, (n): 1. Worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings. 2. a. A particular form or system of religious worship; esp. in reference to its external rites and ceremonies. b. Now freq. used attrib. by writers on cultic ritual and the archæology of primitive cults. -Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. 1989.
But even if you accept this secondary definition from the OED: "Designating cultural phenomena with a strong, often enduring appeal to a relatively small audience; (also) designating this appeal or audience, or any resultant success; fringe, non-mainstream," Mormonism is a cult.
I think the bolded points are easily descriptive of Mormonism. The problem is this, however, believers in the supernatural like to be able to justify their own superstitions while reserving the right to ridicule those of others. Thus the term "cult" has been used by mainstream religious establishments (like Catholicism and Protestantism) to refer to those beliefs which are counter to their own, and thus untrue. As if their own beliefs are any less superstitious or fucked up.
Anyone who worships some invisble, supernatural being with any organized fashion, belongs to a cult. I don't care how large it is, you're all twisted to believe that superstitious nonsense.
But even if you accept this secondary definition from the OED: "Designating cultural phenomena with a strong, often enduring appeal to a relatively small audience; (also) designating this appeal or audience, or any resultant success; fringe, non-mainstream," Mormonism is a cult.
I think the bolded points are easily descriptive of Mormonism. The problem is this, however, believers in the supernatural like to be able to justify their own superstitions while reserving the right to ridicule those of others. Thus the term "cult" has been used by mainstream religious establishments (like Catholicism and Protestantism) to refer to those beliefs which are counter to their own, and thus untrue. As if their own beliefs are any less superstitious or fucked up.
Anyone who worships some invisble, supernatural being with any organized fashion, belongs to a cult. I don't care how large it is, you're all twisted to believe that superstitious nonsense.
SkinWalker said:
As long as people know the way you are defining the word "cult" to encompass all "religious systems that you don't like," not just the Mormons. We LDS people get the "Mormons are a cult!" shoved in our faces all the time, and we don't really appreciate it. The word, however it may be defined respectably in the dictionary, still conjures up images from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom instead of "non-mainstream" religion.
And the people who use the word "cult" against the Mormons usually know EXACTLY what image they are giving to the LDS Church. They want people to believe the worst of us.
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
I was speaking from having actually compared the texts, but since you asked I was googling for a site and found the answer to my question why you don't use the JST instead of the KJV. It is because you lost a court case over the ownership to the rights againsts the Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints. You'd have to buy the book from them, so your church uses a KJV with JST footnotes instead.Marlin said:
I did find a site in googling that gives an example of "the lords prayer" where the BOM is closest to the KJV, and both differ from the JST.
http://loopyturtle.tripod.com/evidence2.html
I also think that the Mormo cult is a "cultural phenomena with a strong, often enduring appeal to a relatively small audience," one that is both fringe and non-mainstream. One that is not only wierd and twisted, but potentially dangerous as well:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy277.html
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/6588-Polygamist_church_purportedly_building_compound_in_Texas.html
http://children.safepassagefoundation.org/archives/2000/04/
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy277.html
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/6588-Polygamist_church_purportedly_building_compound_in_Texas.html
http://children.safepassagefoundation.org/archives/2000/04/
Trilairian, all that that proves is that Jesus is the same on the American continent as He is in the Holy Land. Of course He is going to tell people the same message. Different audience, same needs, same speech basically. A motivational speaker who travels from city to city in modern times usually gives the same speech, no matter whether he is in Omaha or Los Angeles or New York. There may be minor variations, but the speech remains the same from city to city.
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
But it was a different message. It proves no such thing.Marlin said:
Look at the "translations" yourself. That was merely one example.
South Park's Mormon take was priceless. If you ever get a chance to see it you will chuckle for hours, not at the religion but at ourselves. Joe Smith was a genius and we need more like him. Even though he nearly slipped up he manged to cover his tracks. Managing a split from mainstream Christianity with nothing more than the gift of gab, a couple of props, a good story and voila, Utah. He paved the way for guys like the Reverend Ike and P.T. Barnum for instance. Its Americana. Why fight mainstream religion, just make it suit your needs, and all that without being a King.
The power of persuasion, the evangelist, the used car salesman, the snake oil salesman.... beautiful.
The power of persuasion, the evangelist, the used car salesman, the snake oil salesman.... beautiful.
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
Thats an answer to the wrong question. Think about it.Marlin said:
Trilairian, the issues you raise are only of passing academic interest to me, as I know already within my heart and soul that Mormonism is true. I know this in a way that cannot be denied, with every fiber of my being. Moroni's Promise is what I recommend for you and for anyone who really wants to know the truth.
SkinWalker said:
Those references are not to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but rather to fundamentalist apostate Mormons. You're trying to scare people with cites that aren't even relevant to the mainstream LDS Church, which not only doesn't practice polygamy anymore, but excommunicates all polygamists. We are a perfectly respectable religious group.
Yeah, right.
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
As often as he is wrong, he is correct in that. Those polygamist groups are to the mainstream Mormons as Protestants are to Catholics.SkinWalker said:
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
The problem is that you don't really know anything in your heart and sole. You know things in your mind and are dilutioned into taking emotions as an authority on reality over the weight of evidence as percieved by your intelect.Marlin said:
Soul, deluded, perceived, intellect. Learn some spelling skills, man!
I use both my intellect and my feelings in determining what is true and what isn't. I find Mormonism to be the most logical, intellectually satisfying religion I've ever come across. If you stop reading the anti-Mormon websites and materials and listen to what the Mormons actually believe, you will find such a logical structure to it as to eliminate all false doctrines to the contrary.
I use both my intellect and my feelings in determining what is true and what isn't. I find Mormonism to be the most logical, intellectually satisfying religion I've ever come across. If you stop reading the anti-Mormon websites and materials and listen to what the Mormons actually believe, you will find such a logical structure to it as to eliminate all false doctrines to the contrary.
Call it a cult, call it religion, call it fact, call it fiction. It's great some people have such deep-seated convictions concerning the LDS church, however none of them affect the organization in any least possible way. And it will continue to prosper and be the largest and fastest growing church through converts.
We expect persecution, go on heap it upon us. As long as you are sure of what you say, you shouldn't have any reason to relent, right? Fight it, gather yourselves, mock, spit and scoff at it.
But be weary of the Judgements of God in your actions and persecutions--
"lest he shall come out in justice against you—lest a remnant of the seed of Jacob shall go forth among you as a lion, and tear you in pieces, and there is none to deliver." (Mormon 5:24)
We expect persecution, go on heap it upon us. As long as you are sure of what you say, you shouldn't have any reason to relent, right? Fight it, gather yourselves, mock, spit and scoff at it.
But be weary of the Judgements of God in your actions and persecutions--
"lest he shall come out in justice against you—lest a remnant of the seed of Jacob shall go forth among you as a lion, and tear you in pieces, and there is none to deliver." (Mormon 5:24)