Archaeologists are searchers of truth. Specifically, those truths relate to human culture(s).
Bible contradictions
- Thread starter w1z4rd
- Start date
JimHR,
Do you think that the following Law is still in full force today, for all unbelievers? Believers can sin all they want to without a death penalty, under the New Covenant, but can unbelievers do the same? No, they are held to a higher standard than you are, are they not? You are protected from the penalty of the Law while they are not, right?
Leviticus 20:9
9'If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
I would argue that, according to Jesus in the Bible, this Law really is still in full force today for unbelievers! If not please, correct me here.
Well, if this is indeed true, then would you personally be willing to carry out the death sentence that this Law demands if one of your own unbelieving children ever did this?
If you could not do this, perhaps because you love your child too much, would this then place you in rebellion against God? Do you think that God would ever condemn you for loving a person so much that you could never bring yourself to kill them, almost no matter what they did, maybe even in self defense? This is basically the position that this Law placed the Jewish father in. He had to choose between killing his own child, and being faithful to God, or placing himself under the condemnation of God instead, for failing to comply with carrying out the sentence of the Law. It would appear to be more loving and more noble of the father to place himself under the condemnation of God, or sacrifice himself for his own child. Would that then be evil to love your child too much?
So, if this happened in your own family with your own unbelieving child, possibly in the future, what would you do, JimHR?
Do you think that the following Law is still in full force today, for all unbelievers? Believers can sin all they want to without a death penalty, under the New Covenant, but can unbelievers do the same? No, they are held to a higher standard than you are, are they not? You are protected from the penalty of the Law while they are not, right?
Leviticus 20:9
9'If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
I would argue that, according to Jesus in the Bible, this Law really is still in full force today for unbelievers! If not please, correct me here.
Well, if this is indeed true, then would you personally be willing to carry out the death sentence that this Law demands if one of your own unbelieving children ever did this?
If you could not do this, perhaps because you love your child too much, would this then place you in rebellion against God? Do you think that God would ever condemn you for loving a person so much that you could never bring yourself to kill them, almost no matter what they did, maybe even in self defense? This is basically the position that this Law placed the Jewish father in. He had to choose between killing his own child, and being faithful to God, or placing himself under the condemnation of God instead, for failing to comply with carrying out the sentence of the Law. It would appear to be more loving and more noble of the father to place himself under the condemnation of God, or sacrifice himself for his own child. Would that then be evil to love your child too much?
So, if this happened in your own family with your own unbelieving child, possibly in the future, what would you do, JimHR?
Last edited:
very interesting thread so far...
i personally believe in a god, not to say that i believe he/she or whatever the fuck it is is necessarily a perfect or even all loving god. i do believe in an afterlife, however....
here is my main question for atheists however....
if there is no god, how did the human eye come to existence? the human eye is perhaps the most complicated thing the world has ever seen. is the human eye a complete accident? what about the sky and the stars? are these things accidents too?? why do some things look "better" than others? it seems as if all things on earth were....designed. evolution seems legitimate to a large degree (it is not proven by the way, just a theory), and in my opinion, does not change the fact that all things on earth seem to have some kind of intelligent design.
i'm not trying to say God (or the gods) are perfect either. i personally believe god is NOT perfect, it is VERY VERY OBVIOUS. but how does an atheist explain something as designed as the human eye? does any atheist here believe that if there WAS a god, that god is now dead? that sounds better to me than saying "there is no god.". i await responses eagerly.
i personally believe in a god, not to say that i believe he/she or whatever the fuck it is is necessarily a perfect or even all loving god. i do believe in an afterlife, however....
here is my main question for atheists however....
if there is no god, how did the human eye come to existence? the human eye is perhaps the most complicated thing the world has ever seen. is the human eye a complete accident? what about the sky and the stars? are these things accidents too?? why do some things look "better" than others? it seems as if all things on earth were....designed. evolution seems legitimate to a large degree (it is not proven by the way, just a theory), and in my opinion, does not change the fact that all things on earth seem to have some kind of intelligent design.
i'm not trying to say God (or the gods) are perfect either. i personally believe god is NOT perfect, it is VERY VERY OBVIOUS. but how does an atheist explain something as designed as the human eye? does any atheist here believe that if there WAS a god, that god is now dead? that sounds better to me than saying "there is no god.". i await responses eagerly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye
Do pay attention to the last sentences.
You know, my eyes don't actually work very well. I have to stick big round bits of glass in front of them to be able to see. Was that purposeful design?
Steeeeeerike one.
Dan The Man84:
Not an accident. A result of natural selection. The first mistake many people make about evolution is thinking it is random. I hope you're not making that mistake.
You probably don't know, but scientists estimate that eyes of various forms have evolved independently at least 40 times in the course of the Earth's evolutionary history. Having an eye gives an organism an immense survival advantage, so natural selection is very keen on eyes (excuse the anthropomorphisation).
Another factoid: the human eye is certainly not the best eye in nature. Octopuses, for example, have much better "designed" eyes than human beings. And many birds of prey have much much greater visual accuity. So, either God decided to give other animals better eyes than human beings, or there's some other explanation.
Yes, it's "as if". Appearances can be deceiving, especially when you don't know the science behind them. For example, a rainbow might seem a miraculously beautiful thing, but physicists know exactly what causes rainbows. They aren't "designed".
Everything in science is "just a theory". Take a look at our local encyclopedia, under [enc]science[/enc] and [enc]theory[/enc].
Not an accident. A result of natural selection. The first mistake many people make about evolution is thinking it is random. I hope you're not making that mistake.
You probably don't know, but scientists estimate that eyes of various forms have evolved independently at least 40 times in the course of the Earth's evolutionary history. Having an eye gives an organism an immense survival advantage, so natural selection is very keen on eyes (excuse the anthropomorphisation).
Another factoid: the human eye is certainly not the best eye in nature. Octopuses, for example, have much better "designed" eyes than human beings. And many birds of prey have much much greater visual accuity. So, either God decided to give other animals better eyes than human beings, or there's some other explanation.
Yes, it's "as if". Appearances can be deceiving, especially when you don't know the science behind them. For example, a rainbow might seem a miraculously beautiful thing, but physicists know exactly what causes rainbows. They aren't "designed".
Everything in science is "just a theory". Take a look at our local encyclopedia, under [enc]science[/enc] and [enc]theory[/enc].
It's rather disturbing that people can think this is Gods' nature,but your honesty is to be commended...you haven't tried to conveniantly bypass the dark violent side of Yahweh.
So we have a choice as far as the biblical God goes: Let your morals of right and wrong go down the toilet so you can save your own skin(soul).
Another comparison?---Follow Yahweh(Hitler) so you can avoid Hell(Auschwitz)
And of course the only difference between God and Hitler is that Hitler is evil! Basically you have made God equal with Satan. It's not just about avoiding hell it is also about gaining heaven. But that choice is up to you. I am merely a witness of His love.
You see nova900, I do not merely profess to know about God, I profess to know God. And what's amazing is that you can too! All people no matter what there situation can know the true personal God. Because His Word is based on truth. And truth is not relative.
"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:8
We are all condemned to death because of sin. This gives no clear command to kill anyone. He shall die because his bloodguiltiness is upon him. He that loves the Father does not curse his father or his mother and does not die but inherits life.
Do you know the event of Abraham and Isaac? Abraham was so faithful to God in obeying His test of killing Isaac that God said: "By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies." Gen 22:16-17
God most definitely wants us to love our children--that's why He knew this would be Abraham's greatest test, but we are to put God first even before our children to see His blessings.
How much more meaningful is it to us when we know that the Father did indeed sacrifice His son for us.
Is it really that difficult to believe in something you can't see or observe? Cause that's what your doing. Is it that difficult to see things as they are instead of formulating guesses? Cause that's not what your doing.
Just because one knows the process doesn't mean you know Who set up the process.
Last edited by a moderator:
Correction: I have made Yahweh equivalent with Hitler. Yawhehs' action throughout the bible,especially the OT confirm this.
What you fail to realize is that I do believe in God,just not the bibles' portrayal of God. It is simply one group of ancient peoples take on god and no more or less legitamate than other religions.
You say you know God. I have talked personally to many people of other faiths who feel the same. So are they wrong ? Or perhaps all religions can lead to the same God. This seems to be the overall consensus of people who have had NDE's.
I believe you have let the man made dogma of religion cloud your view.
Example: "Only my faith is the path to salvation". You might also want to study the nature of christianity before the orthodox church had their way.Early christianity is different from the present form we see today.
Personally, I've had enough of the religous b/s...and all the crap it's put the world thru!
I dont thinks so, satan is a pussycat in comparison to god. there has been 2,270,365 murders by god in the bible, this is of course a vastly underestimated death toll, I've only includes the murders,which numbers are given. I've not included the murders in the great flood, many plagues, or the many famines, etc.
but in comparison with satan? How many did he kill?
well surprise surprise Ten, yes a whole Ten.
and he shares these with god.
so your god could never be equal with satan, it is a much nastier creature.
It's no use dude. I've made similar statements like that and have had no response.
It's a simple question really: What DOES make Christianity anymore believable than any other religion?
Trying to talk sense into an apologist is like trying to talk sense into a guy who is in love with a girl that is a total bitch, and not good for him. Everyone sees that she's a total bitch but him, who is blinded by what he percieves as love.
We have a habit...as a society of blaming others for our own errors. Neither Satan nor God are directly resposible for our errors that lead to our death's. The bible tells us there is a justice factor...called "bloodguilt" which hold individuals directly accountable for actions that lead to a loss of life.
When God executes judgement it is with the perspective of both an authority figure, the stature of a judge, and executioner aswell as a compasionate parent. However God cannot allow that role of parent to interfere with perfect justice and the consequences that our actions produce...whether it be devine judgement or the laws of gravity, and motion that hold the universe as a logical and predictable enviorment.
I've seen JimHR attempt to explain this. He from my perspective has an excellent grasp of God's defining qualities. It is similar if not the same as my own. It's an understanding that he knows what is just better than ourselves. While he doesn't always tell us there is a reason for everything and all judgements and it's just.
It's trust issue created from not focusing the execution of judgement but also on his mercies aswell. Only then can you truely have a balanced view of him from our perspective.
Think about how advanced and complex computers are today. If you brought a laptop computer from today back in time to about 1,000 years ago, the people of that time would be utterly stunned by it. They would think you either possessed demonic powers or that extraterrestrials gave you the machine. People would have no idea how there could be images on a screen, a moving mouse, the ability to type words, the ability to play recorded sounds, etc. The most advamced scientists of the day would be clueless as to how something so complex just appeared out of nowhere. "It must be aliens" they would say.
However, the problem is that they simply wouldn't understand how the computer went from point A to point B in an evolutionary process. They wouldn't even know where point A was!!! But since we live in today's time, we know that computer have evolved from more simple machines into the complex machines they are today.
Yet, none of us here on Earth asked to be born and subjected to this life which is difficult at best. If God created everything, then he is ultimately responsible and accountable for everything.
Let's say you own a pit bull. That pit bull gets out of the yard one day and mauls a child. Should you blame the dog?
I can understand this mentality. But it also hints on the fact that he's not totally benevolent, which in itself doesn't bother me as much as how often he is 'sugarcoatedly' portrayed to be benevolent. If he's not really benevolent (I am a jealous god), then it does answer a lot of questions, but doesn't do to well to get people to follow him for a reason other than out of fear.
I thought about this the other day. The apologists have a different perspective than the logical and rationals. I'm beginning to think it's just a moot point for one mentality to try to answer the other. Apologists just absolutely refuse to admit there are any contradictions in the bible when they are so blatant (much like 'Baghdad Bob' trying to tell everyone that there was no invasion, on camera, even as U.S. troops drove right behind him.). And rational ones refuse to believe something so speculative, especially when credibility is reduced from having so many contradictions and stuff that just doesn't add up. Example, 'Answers are in the bible'. 'You must read the bible and understand', 'you must understand God and have the holy spirit to understand' are answers that apologist constantly give but non theists don't understand, nor accept. We don't want answers like that. We would honestly rather you say, 'I don't know.' or 'Good question' rather than insult our intelligence by speculative answers.
Exodus 20:5 "I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations."
Hmmm...you paying for your father's mess ups and your children and grandchildren paying for your mess ups? Benevolence at its finest.
Jeremiah 17:4 "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall be forever."
Not only jealous, but grudgeful too!
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
And those scriptures reflect God's mercy how....?
Now, to stay on topic, here are some contradicting scriptures. Please don't tell me that they are taken out of context; if that's all you can tell me in your defense, then just don't respond. They are contradicting regardless of what context you put them in.
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)
Jeremiah 3:12 "...for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever."
Rational, appolgist, illogical....
That's my favorite scripture. It's the first I learned. I learned it becuase I wanted to be able to tell people who asked why I do not worship Mary or the Cross that Jesus died upon, not mention that is was indeed a stake and not a cross.
I memorized it. I memorized verse four and all of verse 5. I knew the context was important.
" You must not make for yourself a carved image, or a form like anything in the heavens above or the Earth underneath, or anything in the waters under the Earth. You must not bow down to them nor must you be induced to serve them because I [Yahweh or Jehovah] your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bring punishment for the errors of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation, upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me.
You see context and propper translation allows us to view the scripture propperly.
I as a son of an abusive father, I understand how a father's actions can have repracussions upon not only his son but upon his son's son and so on and so on. It's normally called a circle of violence. Vindication for the innocent who had no control of what the father was about to pass down to every generation...a mental perhaps even a physical handicap...
But perhpas that's because I can relate to this better than you can.
But why address me? You've shown you're not intrested in my perspective?
You have these labels and classfications you've adopted. You've applied them (presumably) to myself and JimHR by the sound of your post. I've been judge incompetent, irrational, illogical, appologist....
Really...you should have nothing to do with such a person.
That's my favorite scripture. It's the first I learned. I learned it becuase I wanted to be able to tell people who asked why I do not worship Mary or the Cross that Jesus died upon, not mention that is was indeed a stake and not a cross.
I memorized it. I memorized verse four and all of verse 5. I knew the context was important.
" You must not make for yourself a carved image, or a form like anything in the heavens above or the Earth underneath, or anything in the waters under the Earth. You must not bow down to them nor must you be induced to serve them because I [Yahweh or Jehovah] your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bring punishment for the errors of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation, upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me.
You see context and propper translation allows us to view the scripture propperly.
I as a son of an abusive father, I understand how a father's actions can have repracussions upon not only his son but upon his son's son and so on and so on. It's normally called a circle of violence. Vindication for the innocent who had no control of what the father was about to pass down to every generation...a mental perhaps even a physical handicap...
But perhpas that's because I can relate to this better than you can.
But why address me? You've shown you're not intrested in my perspective?
You have these labels and classfications you've adopted. You've applied them (presumably) to myself and JimHR by the sound of your post. I've been judge incompetent, irrational, illogical, appologist....
Really...you should have nothing to do with such a person.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
So....stockholm syndrom, then?
You do understand that I'm not the only one with this mentality right? You do understand that MW, SkinWalker, Seti, and such have very similar mentalities, right? They have in so many words, called you, JimHR, John99 out on similar subjects with the same exact answers. So in reality, you are singling me out in the same exact way that you think I'm singling you out. On your behalf though, not only have you responded with partially understandable responses, you are the only apologist on here that has responded, and I thank you for that, even if we don't see eye to eye.Saquist said:
What labels and classifications do I have that you are talking about? This is the third of fourth time that you have mentioned that...without coming up with a reason why you think that? Am I not allowed to think whatever I want? You're pretty much implying that what I think is wrong.
So, Dr. Freud, what exactly am I labelling and classifying??????
I interpret this as just another way of stating the commandment; Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me. Which has nothing to do with the point I'm talking about.
And let's take a look at this statment, which is just as vague as many scriptures in the bible:
In the case of those who hate me? That's a clear indication of non-benevolence there. A merciful benevolent God would not bring punishment on anyone who hated him. Would a loving parent here on Earth wish any type of punishment on their children or their children's children, even if that child disowned his parent? Would you wish that on your children?
If someone wants to hate ME, then let them. I have no control over what others feel, but I wouldn't wish punishment on them and their children.
incorrect, incomplete, omissions...I don't care for semantics. I only care for the truth.
Dr. Freud says: "Don't let your only question be one of sarcasm"
That is acknowledgement of context. We're talking about commandments.
-Relevant-
Hate...in respects the commandments. (propper context continues to follow the idea)
Do we have reason to believe that God's statement "In the case of those who hates me." is a specific idea? Yes.
John 14:21
" He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me."
It would seem the specific Idea here here is God relates that those that love him follow his council yet those that hate him disobey and ignore his council and commandments. The Scripture is not only a dictation of the relation between man and God but also between man and his son and all that are affected by one man's bad judgement. This one man is held accountable.
that context should be clear now...this scripture has nothing to do with punishing generation after generation but the person...."the father's error, upon all the generations to come."
Translation error in context: or simply a translator's litteral translation. Litteral has it's purpose but so does the propper context.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
You just described it.
I don't think you have made your case. If the father makes a mistake, why will God visit anything upon that person's children? Even if the father's sins or errors are what causes the problem for the kid, the "problem" is God bringing punishment for the errors of fathers upon sons.
There does not seem to be a less literal way of reading that sentence that absolves God of responsibility for punishing a person for the faults of his ancestors. As soon as we grant God omnipotence, then he has the choice to deliver that punishment or not.
Certainly a fathers actions will be felt for generations. However, that's not the same thing as God bringing punishment to them - it's the result of a deterministic universe; one without omnipotence, without choice, and without responsibility.
But I must admit:
When I first memorized this scripture it meant the same to me as it did to you. I took the "punishment" out of context placing it on the following generations because how english works. I've grown to a greater understanding of the scriptures...and understanding that does not isolate a single scriputre but takes them all into account as a continuous flow of one idea and that idea is the redemption of man from old, age, death, sickness.etc.
It's not a matter of holly spirit to understand, it's a greater knowledge of the bible. Which I admit is difficult considering religions mishandling of the bible and the reliance on ignorance and tradition. But these things are not easily washed away. It's a persistent stain I'm happy I do not have but...It does keep me from relating to those who have be splattered by religious traditions.
I may be unnecessarily hard on those affected by religous traditions. It is an error on my part to...have a lack of compassion for those who come to regard the bible as duplicitous. It is my fault. JimHR excells at this. He is patient I am not. I love the simple facts and I in error believe that teaching the facts is teaching truth. I consistently fail to see the mulitple perspectives that others have spawned based on some of the same facts.
I was once told by and Elder...
A teacher tells the truth.
A good teacher uses illistrations to convey the meaning
A Great teacher allows a student to discover the truth.
When I first memorized this scripture it meant the same to me as it did to you. I took the "punishment" out of context placing it on the following generations because how english works. I've grown to a greater understanding of the scriptures...and understanding that does not isolate a single scriputre but takes them all into account as a continuous flow of one idea and that idea is the redemption of man from old, age, death, sickness.etc.
It's not a matter of holly spirit to understand, it's a greater knowledge of the bible. Which I admit is difficult considering religions mishandling of the bible and the reliance on ignorance and tradition. But these things are not easily washed away. It's a persistent stain I'm happy I do not have but...It does keep me from relating to those who have be splattered by religious traditions.
I may be unnecessarily hard on those affected by religous traditions. It is an error on my part to...have a lack of compassion for those who come to regard the bible as duplicitous. It is my fault. JimHR excells at this. He is patient I am not. I love the simple facts and I in error believe that teaching the facts is teaching truth. I consistently fail to see the mulitple perspectives that others have spawned based on some of the same facts.
I was once told by and Elder...
A teacher tells the truth.
A good teacher uses illistrations to convey the meaning
A Great teacher allows a student to discover the truth.
Here is the short list...
Does God punish us for the sins of our fathers?
No He Does Not!
Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Kings 14:6
But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Yes He Does!
Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Exodus 34:7
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Numbers 14:18
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 28:18
Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body.
2 Samuel 12:13-14
13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, the son born to you will die."
The father who sinned (David) did not die for his own sin even though the Law of God demanded that he must die, but instead, David's son, who did no wrong, died directly because of his father's sin.
1 Kings 2:33
Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever.
Isaiah 14:21
Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.
Jeremiah 16:10-11
Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 29:32
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed.
Jeremiah 32:18
Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them.
Does God punish us for the sins of our fathers?
No He Does Not!
Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Kings 14:6
But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Yes He Does!
Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Exodus 34:7
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Numbers 14:18
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 28:18
Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body.
2 Samuel 12:13-14
13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, the son born to you will die."
The father who sinned (David) did not die for his own sin even though the Law of God demanded that he must die, but instead, David's son, who did no wrong, died directly because of his father's sin.
1 Kings 2:33
Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever.
Isaiah 14:21
Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.
Jeremiah 16:10-11
Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 29:32
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed.
Jeremiah 32:18
Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them.
Last edited: