SkinWalker let's see what you think of my editing:
I thought I'd allow a few others to post first before I responded. They apparently found some of the same fallacious problems I did.
But the difference between *my* edit of your post somewhere above, and *your* edit of my post that followed, is that mine is a quantifiable and qualifiable criticism. Yours is mere vindictive and emotive response to a frustrating situation. I'll only pick on your very first paragraph as example. You say, through your fallacious edit:
you really sound like to Christians that actually utilize critical thought and reason when evaluating the deluded claims of those that unquestionably buy into atheism. The point of this thread is to present and discuss the seeming contradictions present in the Christian Bible, which has been done at length.
The difference between my critique and yours, as I said, is quantity and quality. You say "Christians that utilize
critical thought and reason [emphasis mine], but fail to demonstrate any semblance of either. Moreover, the lack of critical thought and reason has been thoroughly demonstrated throughout this and other threads here. Mikenostic makes a very good point on this in his post just prior to this one.
You also insert the word "seeming" when referring to contradictions, but there are many contradictions in this thread that have gone completely unanswered, at least to any degree that might be considered satisfactory to the reasoned mind (a quality you
claim is present in the Christians writing here). My post on the Exodus myth, for instance is based on archaeological fact: the Exodus myth was apparently written by 7th Century authors who
invented a 13th century (BCE) myth to meet their own agenda and need for propaganda based on their 7th - 5th century BCE knowledge of the world. No refutation. So it would "seem" that the contradiction holds.
Finally, in that paragraph (though I'm addressing it out of order), you use the fallacious phrase "the deluded claims of those that unquestionably buy into atheism." I challenge you to quantify and qualify that statement. I've done so with my similar statement regarding the delusions of the religious. I'll not hold my breath, however, since the fallacy of the statement lies in the fact that atheism isn't a doctrine or necessarily a
belief system as religious nutters would like to believe. The reason the religious argue the point is probably because they recognize, at least on some level, that having a doctrine and unquestioning 'faith' is stupid. They realize it is a pejorative to consider that they live their life by a doctrine or "faith" and, thus, attempt to apply the same pejorative to their perceived enemy: the atheist.
But there are all sorts of "atheists." Some have belief systems that include all sorts of New Age poppycock. Some believe in ESP. Some believe in alien abductions. Some believe in homeopathy and the healing power of shamens. And so on. So, if you're going to say that the claims of atheists are deluded, you'll need to be more specific. Moreover, you'll need to provide empirical evidence that the delusion is in place. Assuming that one of the "delusions" is that there is no good reason to believe in gods, you'll need to demonstrate, empirically, that this is false. Otherwise, you're talking out of your ass, to use a colloquialism.
faith is the root of every single person's beliefs on the face of the earth.
The difference between any 'faith' I might have and the 'faith' you have is that mine is based on what has been observably understood to hold true. I have faith the sun will appear to rise due to the rotation of the Earth tomorrow at a given time since this has held true for me for nearly 41 years. I accept this faith provisionally, however, because the sun may, indeed, go supernova at any time, which we would know 8 minutes later.
You, on the other hand, have faith in things that you have not a shred of real evidence for. Indeed, some things you have faith on are things for which there is evidence to the contrary! This is truly deluded thinking in the most classic sense! So, when the religious try to pejoratively apply the word "faith" to the reasoned mind (realizing that you are deluded in thinking that this is a club to which you belong, I point out yours is
not), they reveal an underlying understanding that to accept things without question and without evidence is silly.
Just simply ask yourself what happens after you die, that is your faith. And every single belief you or I have is based on that faith. The Bible is the only book on the face of the earth that gives a clear understanding of life before and after death. And what's more--it answers every vital question of the history of the world.
I have no good reason to believe that anything happens when I die except that my cognitive processes cease and my corpse decomposes. I concern myself more with what will happen to my family than I do myself -I'll probably not exist as a conscious being able to worry about it. I don't, of course,
know (just as you don't -though you no doubt harbor delusions and
think you know), so I hold my opinion provisionally. But you are absolutely and utterly
wrong that the xian bible is the only book on the face of the Earth that discusses and suggests that it knows what happens to a person before and after death. This, of course, is typical religiocentric/ethnocentric bullshit that is built into the christian delusion. And it is clear evidence that you do not think rationally, clearly, or objectively on the issue. Which leads us to your next delusionally influenced quote:
You must be born again before you can read the Bible with understanding.
Complete and utter nonsense. If anything, to have an understanding of the bible, you must be a non-believer. Those deluded in thinking that biblical mythology is inerrant and literal truth of the universe have no ability to critically evaluate themselves and the attitudes and psychologies of the authors of this collection of ancient texts. Biblical texts offer an important and wonderful opportunity to conduct anthropology and gain the perspective of past cultures as well as current ones, but this information is only available for an etic perspective. The emic one is distorted by delusion. I've no doubt that you believe your words. They simply don't hold true no matter how hard you wish on them.
Do you honestly think that your limited cerebral processing is capable of answers the questions of the universe?
No. Nor is yours. And the even more limited intellect (not necessarily the same as intelligence) of the Bronze and Iron Age authors of the mythology that you're deluded in believe to be inerrant, literal truth are even less capable of answering the questions of the universe. I've no illusion that all the questions of the universe will be answered in my lifetime. Nor do I have a wish to know all the answers (there are many answers to which I have not the single shred of interest in!). I do, however, think that the answers are potentially obtainable and that there are objective truths to them.
What I don't do, in the absence of having these answers, however, is accept a superstitious and mythical answers as being the explanations for things I don't know. I'm not afraid to say, "I don't know." And maybe this is the failing of some or many of the religious: they're afraid of unknowns and find comfort in answers, even if those answers are complete and utter nonsense.
The Scriptures say that the "natural man" does not understand the things of the Spirit of God (like you, and M*W, and even SetiAlpha6). Most Americans would find it difficult to understand the Chinese language. However, a child who is born into a Chinese family can understand every word. That’s why you must be born again with God’s Spirit living within you (John 3:3). The moment you become part of God’s family, the Bible will begin to make sense.
Complete and utter bullshit. If you want to insert little moments of proselytizing and quotes of scripture to preach your bullshit "word," I reserve the right to quote it and call it bullshit. An assertion I'll back. Your bullshit "word" is a cult and, like all good cults, it has built in protection in its doctrine to answer the criticisms of those that question it. And your first line in the quote above is one of many. It is the intellectual coward that claims those that question and criticize him can't understand because they don't believe. Complete and utter bullshit. I would say your god's spirit can suck my left one
but since it probably doesn't exist, it would be a fantasy unfulfilled.
It is only when you break free from your presuppositions that you will be able to address the issue of the Bible with an open mind.
Exactly! That is
exactly the criticism I've leveled against you and others: you have preconceived conclusions to which you seek only that data which are supportive.
Our presuppositions create our worldview. What do you think causes us to have presuppositions? Why is it I and other Christians around the world can read the Bible and understand it, but you, and M*W, and SetiAlpha6 can't? It is because you have not been spiritually awakened and in fact your souls are dead to life.
Perhaps you have your preconceived conclusions because you were born into a culture of delusion. If you tell a child over and over that God exists and sent Jesus to die for your sins and be good or go to hell, you'll create an adult that believes this unquestionably in spite of the the lack of evidence or even evidence to the contrary. You have a delusion that you are "awakened." The reality is that you are trapped in a bubble of delusion and the rest of us are on the outside looking in. We see all sorts of bubbles, all with their deluded inhabitants: Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Raelians, Scientologists, Navajo, etc. Some of these bubbles have bubbles within them. The Christian bubble contains a population of smaller bubbles that have varying degrees of delusions: some are fundamentalists; some are moderates; some are catholics; some are baptists; etc. And these bubbles have bubbles of their own. The Catholic bubble, already inside the Christian bubble, has a bubble of Opus Dais; the bubble of Our Lady Guadalupe; etc.
Perhaps Medicine*Woman and I are in a bubble too. I accept this possibility and am willing to revise my opinions based upon evidence presented. But the very fact that I hold my own worldview provisionally would,
at the very least indicate that my bubble has thinner walls than those of the religiously deluded, should my bubble of delusion exist at all.
Faith is a very important issue when looking at the contradictions of the Bible. In fact it is the very foundation of understanding/not understanding them. Why not start at the root and then work up?
Oh, I have. Indeed, I agree with your sentiment above. Faith -trust without/in spite of evidence- is crucial to being able to evaluate the contradictions in biblical mythology.
btw--It is not me who is deluded since my faith is based upon the overwhelming truths of the Bible. What do you base your faith upon? A science book? Selfish lusts? If you create your own standards on faith and morality--you can do whatever you want.
I'm not sure what you mean by selfish lusts. I'm happily and successfully married. But I don't have "faith" in the same sense you do, as I've established throughout this post. You unquestionably accept the religious superstitious handed down to you through cultural memes. I, on the other hand, accept
provisionally those facts that can be observed, or at least potentially observed, to be true. The bible is only full of "overwhelming truths" if you are deluded, which contradicts your assertion that you are not deluded. You are clearly living a deluded life.
Atheism--a comfort to those who refuse to abide by God's standards of righteousness (though those who do abide receive great rewards).
Which god? Atun? Ptah? Quetzacoatl? Zeus? Thor? .... Why your god and not one of the thousands upon thousands of gods of humanity, most of which are completely contradictory. The answer, of course, is that yours is the one you were indoctrinated in. Your delusion prevents you from acknowledging the fact that your god wins due to the accomplishment of your base culture and not because of your religious superstition. Your base culture, of European origin, had economic and geographic advantages that allowed it to proliferate, spreading the meme of your religious superstition like a virus.
The religiously deluded absolutely hate he notion of the atheist, since it is the atheist that refuses to be deluded along with them. As a result, the religious will always invent derisive words for the term atheist. The truth of etymology cannot escape them, however:
a theist - without gods.
Christianity has changed just as much as any other religion. What would you call the denominations? What would you call the 19th Century British minister who came up with the 'rapture'? Sounds like a change to the original idea of 'Trumpets will blare and Jesus will descend from heaven' during his supposed second coming, to me.