Mythbuster:
Piss off, you dopey piece of shit. You give us atheists a bad name.
Atheists
- Thread starter Muslim
- Start date
Lerxst:
For example, look at the Ottoman's. I've forgotten which Sultan it was, but he was known as "X the reformer". Him, and the Sultans after him, nerfed the ulema (religious ruling body). They realized that such bodies infringed on the Sultan's absolute power, so they attempted to liquidate it. However, the Sultans were as Islamic as one can get. Much the same with Stalin.
I don't know about the others, but from what I've heard, Stalin was a deist. However, he hated organized religion, because such organizations stole his absolute power and authority. Being against organization religion != you are an atheist.
For example, look at the Ottoman's. I've forgotten which Sultan it was, but he was known as "X the reformer". Him, and the Sultans after him, nerfed the ulema (religious ruling body). They realized that such bodies infringed on the Sultan's absolute power, so they attempted to liquidate it. However, the Sultans were as Islamic as one can get. Much the same with Stalin.
mountainhare said:
I agree, yes im a piece of shit. In other word, i think i should become a deist. like creating a god in my head i donno. God or no God.. maybe there's a gods but an imperfect gods.
Athiest can deny perfect god but they cant deny imperfect god. It COULD be possible that natural force created Gods and Gods created the universe... they are not perfect but i donno... i think that there are powerfull biengs in another dimention. not perfect but i would say... enough power to create this imperfect world.
Ok, the universe was created via nothing, i agree but then maybe it's posible that those beings was created BEFORE us.
I have to admit that religion is bad. Maybe our universe is an atom and there's many of them...
Arrrggg...
sorry about that. I better shut up now.
Last edited:
mountainhare said:
i apologise for the misunderstanding
my posts were not meant to be understood as attack, they were just observations
i'm sorry... did i sound rude or unfriendly to you?
that was not my intention... i am pointing out my experience in relation to the very first post in this thread... i'm not "highjacking" it with abruptness... there is no similarity between what i am doing and what i am criticising
"atheists are angry" is not an affirmation to be statisticaly proved... i made it clear that this is my own opinion, i talking about people that i've met and spoken to... they were not little
i'm sorry if you feel offended
if it matters at all, you are not really doing much to better the image of atheists imo
Last edited:
Varda said:
No, atheism as nothing to do with war. i think it is religion that is killing our planet. I think each peoples should have ther own personal god/gods and make it as joyfull as possible. Personal god, i mean, not to share with others, otherwise it would be a beginning of a new religion to war.
Art is a powerfull thing. Something that i can't explain. Art..... Art... what is ART ? I can draw the most beautifull thing i can imagine in my mind, but for other peoples it's not the same beauty as i see in my eyes.
Last edited:
Lerxst said:Do you know any atheists personally? They might be easier to talk to, in general. Message boards are often quite rude, as you have seen.
I think you will find a spectrum of people in any group you look at - there are asshole atheists and asshole theists.
Of course, there are no asshole agnostics, though....
i know a lot of atheists, they're common in the musician circles, and i am close friend so some, though we preffer to avoid the subject for most of the time... we do discuss a lot in our drunkness, but those are moments in which all is forgiven
there are the types though, that act superior to everyone else, as if being an atheist grants them a special status of enlightment... for some reason
that goes for the real world outside the internet as much as for here
oh, there are ashole agnistisc! of course, they are very rare
Mythbuster said:
everybody knows that we are destroying the world, but nobody is willing to give away their cars, electricity etc... we're doing little things here and there to make it better, but is it going to actually impact the evolution of this destruction?
i think we are just too dependent of our aquired comfort. do you think religion is a bigger threat to the world than that?
Lerxst said:
Well i guess both have good and bad. Im sure there are killer machine agnostics to. I know an agnostic guy who was about to suicide him self. A japanese athiest guy.
Agnosticism is depressive, enough to suicide.
mountainhare said:
I understand that. The larger point I am trying to make is that you do not need religion, religious talk, god, or any of that in order to find some idiotic excuse to murder millions of people.
So I get tired of is this risible idea that if we simply jettison the god idea, everything is going to be just peachy keen on this planet. Bull. Fucking. Shit. There are entire cultures/countries without any significant religion where people are treated like vermin.
The native americans believed in the Sun and the moon gods. They did collective suicide cause of it so. I see no reason why we need religion. Art is a tricky thing. But if we avoid religion, we have to kill ART.
There will always be some fanatic who will worship something.
Maybe in the future, peoples will worship starwars dvds...
I think killing the art is a bad idea. Its like killing the true color of the world.
There will always be some fanatic who will worship something.
Maybe in the future, peoples will worship starwars dvds...
I think killing the art is a bad idea. Its like killing the true color of the world.
Last edited:
Varda said:they'll worship science
Try not to worship nukebombs
Varda said:
so prophetic...
"There is something more than a little contemptible about persons who argue against 'knowledge' without utilizing any; unencumbered with the dichotomy that they're arguing for ignorance, and from ignorance, while displaying it."
-- Kamian
-- Kamian
qwerty mob said:
Don't know what your talking about - it is not agnosticism, in any case.
"The true agnostic goes neither farther than the evidence will support, nor ignores the evidence and logic which is supportable by scientific inquiry of the highest quality.... any agnostic must "follow your reason as far as it can take you without other considerations." No true agnostic will ever ignore that commandment merely to continue asserting an uncertainty when demonstrable evidence and logical reasoning demand a particular position be taken." - Bill Schultz
Lerxst said:
How can one claim to know?
qwerty mob said:
Read the quote above.
Knowledge is contextual. I know the solution to a differential equation just as much as anyone else. I know species diversity is explained by evolution. I know that St. Paul is the capital of Minnesota. It is risible to assert that an agnostic "isn't sure about anything." I'm sure about plenty. I just don't pretend to know about that set of things I have no way of knowing anything about. That is not the set of "all things." Just some things.
I'm not asserting that knowledge isn't contextual, indeed it is an affirmation of knowledge to exercize it by critical re-evaluation. Only that sooner or later, you will have to harmonize agnosticism with the flaws of infinite regress and intellectual selectivity. I'm not going to hold your feet to the fire though, you're a bright person, you'll see this in your own time.
qwerty mob said:
Please expand upon the flaws of infinite regress and intellectual selectivity... what do you mean?
Do you mean that in my agnosticism I have to allow for an infinite number of possible explanations? And that any one of them is no better than another? But the purely naturalistic explanation is just one of these infinity as well. The only thing it has going for it is Occam's razor selects it. That is all well and fine, and reasonable, but the razor is not an arbiter of truth, it is just a handy rule that tends to work. So I take atheism as being the most probable worldview - If I was a betting man, I'd bet there is not a god. I think that is totally reasonable. But I cannot claim to know this is the case.
I used to be an atheist, you know. I arrived at atheism as a logical conclusion because it was based on a very simplistic philosophy. As I have learned more, I have come to see that that philosophical base was too facile. The older I get, the more I see that the world is a lot more gray and a lot less black and white than I used to think it was.
All that being said, I still have quite a lot in common with most atheists. I despise fundamentalism and organized religion in general. From a political standpoint, we are all on the same side (and lots of liberal theists are on our side too).