Atheists
- Thread starter Muslim
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samcdkey said:
Because the the destruction and mayhem the nazi regime has caused is part of the national identity.
See for instance the difference in this respect between Germany and Japan. The Japanese do not really have the cultural phenomenon of apology regarding the attrocities of WW2. The Germans do. It's a real phenomenon and it is a very responsible one. The Germans realize that their heritage is determined not only by what they do now, but also by their past and are not afraid to take responsibility. I think it is a sign of humanity. The world got wrecked because of the actions of the german people and the german people will strive to make amends.
Who cares if individuals think differently from the collective. As a whole germany has this particular policy regarding their Nazi past. As can be read from the quotes I gave. It's general knowledge once again. Something that seems to be seriously lacking nowadays.
Red Devil said:
Yes, I agree with you. Committing suicide in Islam is a big sin, also the killing of innocents, particularly woman, old people the disabled and trees. In the Qu'ran it also says that god doesn't like transgresses and that all humans on earth should live a righteous, pious life.
Also even when committing Jihad there are etiquettes. Which have to be follow strictly, and Jihad is only allowed when the order is given by the Caliphate and this is only in self defense against those who fight you, there are many rules to Jihad one of them is if your enemy drops his weapon then you must not attack him, i.e you cannot attack unarmed men.
References:
http://www.islamanswers.net/jihad/rules.htm
http://www.dogchurch.org/chapel/jihad.html
Red Devil said:
The phrase is a metaphor, not a scientific description; and it is not generally used by biologists, who almost exclusively prefer to use the phrase "natural selection".
Herbert spencer was a social darwinist and the term has been political to the bone. Especially after the meaning of fitnes has changed but the phrase survival of the fittest has been continued to be used by the popyular masses to talk about something they have no knowledge off.
In The Man Versus The State of 1884 Spencer used this phrase to reinforce his social theories, writing "Thus by survival of the fittest, the militant type of society becomes characterized by profound confidence in the governing power, joined with a loyalty causing submission to it in all matters whatever." Companies which offer better goods and services survive better in the marketplace and tend to accumulate an ever-growing market share. Poorly-adapting companies will be forced out by better-adapting ones: "killed" by the competition.
It all has nothing to do with modern science.
spuriousmonkey said:
Thanks I understand.
I have been to the Holocaust Museum in D.C. and the horrors are unimaginable.
The degree to which those who controlled the camps were able to distance themselves from the suffering is not something we want to forget. Its an indication of the depths to which we humans can sink.
I just generally avoid deductive reason when talking to Muslim; otherwise the thread just goes south.
The Japanese are also the only people so far to have been murdered by weapons of mass destruction. That probably affects their culture...spuriousmonkey said:
I still don't see why today's Germans should apologise. Recognise the wrongs of the past, certainly. But can one apologise for something one didn't do?
Zephyr said:
Are you American?
Jihad is the most maligned term in Islam
Here is what it actually means (from wikipedia )
Jihad, sometimes spelled Jahad, Jehad or Djehad, is an Islamic term, ("to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle"), which connotes a wide range of meanings: anything from an inward spiritual struggle to attain perfect faith to a political or military struggle to further the Islamic cause. Individuals involved in the political or military forms of jihad are often labeled with the neologism "jihadist".
The term "jihad" is often rendered in western languages and non-Islamic cultures as "holy war", but this "physical" struggle, which encompasses warfare, only makes up part of the broader meaning of the concept of jihad. The denotation is of a struggle, challenge, difficulty, or (frequently) opposed effort, made either in accomplishment or as resistance. A person who engages in any form of jihad can be called a mujahid (in plural: mujahadin) (Arabic: striver, struggler), a term even more often applied to groups who practice armed struggle in the name of Islam. He might engage in fighting as a military struggle for religious reasons, or for example, struggle to memorize the Qur'an.
Muslim scholars explained there are five kinds of jihad fi sabilillah (struggle in the cause of God) [1]:
Jihad of the heart/soul (jihad bin nafs/qalb) is an inner struggle of good against evil in the mind, through concepts such as tawhid.
Jihad by the tongue (jihad bil lisan) is a struggle of good against evil waged by writing and speech, such as in the form of dawah (proselytizing), Khutbas (sermons), and political or military propaganda.
Jihad by the pen and knowledge (jihad bil qalam/ilm) is a struggle for good against evil through scholarly study of Islam, ijtihad (legal reasoning), and through sciences (such as military and medical sciences).
Jihad by the hand (jihad bil yad) refers to a struggle of good against evil waged by actions or with one's wealth, such as going on the Hajj pilgrimage (seen as the best jihad for women), taking care of elderly parents, providing funding for jihad, political activity for furthering the cause of Islam, stopping evil by force, or espionage.
Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif) refers to qital fi sabilillah (armed fighting in the way of God, or holy war).
Here is what it actually means (from wikipedia )
Jihad, sometimes spelled Jahad, Jehad or Djehad, is an Islamic term, ("to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle"), which connotes a wide range of meanings: anything from an inward spiritual struggle to attain perfect faith to a political or military struggle to further the Islamic cause. Individuals involved in the political or military forms of jihad are often labeled with the neologism "jihadist".
The term "jihad" is often rendered in western languages and non-Islamic cultures as "holy war", but this "physical" struggle, which encompasses warfare, only makes up part of the broader meaning of the concept of jihad. The denotation is of a struggle, challenge, difficulty, or (frequently) opposed effort, made either in accomplishment or as resistance. A person who engages in any form of jihad can be called a mujahid (in plural: mujahadin) (Arabic: striver, struggler), a term even more often applied to groups who practice armed struggle in the name of Islam. He might engage in fighting as a military struggle for religious reasons, or for example, struggle to memorize the Qur'an.
Muslim scholars explained there are five kinds of jihad fi sabilillah (struggle in the cause of God) [1]:
Jihad of the heart/soul (jihad bin nafs/qalb) is an inner struggle of good against evil in the mind, through concepts such as tawhid.
Jihad by the tongue (jihad bil lisan) is a struggle of good against evil waged by writing and speech, such as in the form of dawah (proselytizing), Khutbas (sermons), and political or military propaganda.
Jihad by the pen and knowledge (jihad bil qalam/ilm) is a struggle for good against evil through scholarly study of Islam, ijtihad (legal reasoning), and through sciences (such as military and medical sciences).
Jihad by the hand (jihad bil yad) refers to a struggle of good against evil waged by actions or with one's wealth, such as going on the Hajj pilgrimage (seen as the best jihad for women), taking care of elderly parents, providing funding for jihad, political activity for furthering the cause of Islam, stopping evil by force, or espionage.
Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif) refers to qital fi sabilillah (armed fighting in the way of God, or holy war).
The holy war denoted here must be sanctioned by a major religious/political head of the religion ( which actually does not exist right now in Islam). Moreover, the war must be fought in defence, to defend the faith and a first ( or pre-emptive strike) is not acceptable.
Innocent people must not be injured, the idea of a holy war is DEFEND yourself and your faith.
So what the terrorists are doing is called hiraba or crime against society and it is actually the duty of devout Muslims to destroy them as they are a threat to our religion
Here is a link:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm
Innocent people must not be injured, the idea of a holy war is DEFEND yourself and your faith.
So what the terrorists are doing is called hiraba or crime against society and it is actually the duty of devout Muslims to destroy them as they are a threat to our religion
Here is a link:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm
Zephyr said:
Americans often don't have any feeling for the concept of community. Hence the question. 'my bad'.
In this case you should just realize that some people actually do care about the past of their country and that this feeling is caused by particular reasons. Your personal vision on this matter is interesting to a certain extent (as to know how you care about a specific matter), but it doesn't add to the analysis of political/social/cultural movements of a particular nation.
Can I rephrase that: it's the same time of comment you see in the religious section often. I can't believe it hence it doesn't exist. Technically I should have just ignored your comment, because you probably realize yourself. You are certainly not stupid. But I fell for the trap of commenting on something I shouldn't have commented on.
So now I wasted bandwidth.
No, I thank you for your explanation. As you said, it doesn't really fit into my current personal philosophy. Isn't 'sense of community' just a nice way of describing what 'tribalism' is a nasty way of describing? Aren't they two sides of the same coin? I see little point in waving a flag over the great accomplishments of somebody who happened to live in the same country as me ... I suppose it's a sign that something is going right if that does happen, but it doesn't make me a great achiever. Similarly, I probably wouldn't want to live in a country which had committed genocide and refused to admit it - but if I was born in one, that wouldn't make me a bad person per se, would it?spuriousmonkey said:
Interestingly, I've heard that South Africa is very Americanised in culture ... I used to think this was a good thing.
Muslim sent me a link to the Quran, in English, as soon as I started reading it this comes up:
http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php
http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php
Red Devil said:
Yes; no religion preaches hatred. You have to remember that people are attracted to religion as a way of giving meaning and substance to their life, because they feel incomplete and need solace. So how could any religion preach hatred?
I have read the Quran, the Bible, the Vedas, the Gita, the Upanishads, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana because I had friends who belonged to these creeds and I grew up with them celebrating their religious festivals as they celebrated mine. So I was very lucky to be able to understand early in life that all people are same. If they look for things in common they will find them. What do you need to be happy? Just two things: love and acceptance. When people recognize this, they will be happy. Not anytime soon though.
Aren't you supposed to read the quran in arab? Reading translations will ensure a one way trip to hell.
