Look, I don't go from being an atheist to being an "agnostic" just because you can play argumentum ad ignoratum. If you don't have any real evidence for a proposition, its ranking is somewhere between zero and any real number divided by infinity.
atheists don't have the right to be atheists.
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
that's cause you don't know him.
or so you say...:bugeye:
Not knowing him suggests he exists. So far I haven't even found so much as a vague hint that might suggest he existed.
I have absolutely no reason whatsoever even to begin to think that he might exist.
If anyone think he/she can convince me of his existence, be my guest.
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
You should prove that something exists to make sense of it, not the opposite. Talking about religion... You have to prove that a God exists, but this isn't enough, you have to prove that your own God is the right one also; your Christian God, Allah or a teapot near Saturn? Which one is the real God?
KNOWING him suggests he exists. I can tell you about someone you've never known of all day long and you can say "you're making that shit up. That's not who you really know, you imagined it. Or its really somebody else."
The only way you really get to know somebody and verify who they are is to really know them.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I'll rephrase.
By telling me "you don't know him" you are supposing that he exists.
Do you know Zeljka Larabi ?
That's nonsense. According to that no one can ever know someone else.
*************
M*W: One man's evidence is another man's delusion.
Deserve's got nothing to do with it.
Ah ha! So that's who sent me that 5 volume Douglas Adams book.
You have proof those gods don't exist?
Believing something because it makes you happy (or makes you think you're happy) is infantile.
Do you have any idea of the number of things which were thought to be miracles yet are now well understood?
Do you joke about dead babies?
Okay, so what you are saying is that, if I choose to accept the Lord Jesus Christ into my heart and ask Him for Salvation and a place in the Kingdom of Heaven, then I would know that he exists? Lori, are you sure that you are not just lying? You see, I used to be a Southern Baptist, and I come from a very large family of Southern Baptists. I can tell you from decades-worth of experience with people just like you that you really are making shit up. You're all the same. The sense of dissociation associated with your "spiritual experiences" gave me the heebie-jeebies, but that's really all it was: it was a drug high. You are a bunch of miserable addicts, and you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Fortunately, autists seem to have a bit of resistance to drug addiction.
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Even if we accept the definitions implied then you're still wrong.
I cannot *prove* that leprechauns don't exist, I'm still justified in being an a-leprechaunist. To put it simply, it's ridiculous. I could be wrong - granted. Perhaps there are leprechauns running all over the place. I am fully justified to consider it utter baloney until such time where the claimant to positive existence can actually provide some genuine support.
I know, I know, you're going to say to me that "god and leprechauns aren't the same", but they are to the atheist - which is the very point.
-=-
Except :
There could be many things we have yet to discover, possibly including leprechauns.
A god tho is in a different category all to itself.
Except :
There could be many things we have yet to discover, possibly including leprechauns.
A god tho is in a different category all to itself.
To you, perhaps. To me they are all in the exact same category as leprechauns - that's the very point.
If we even examine the excerpt we find problem with it. Nobody would give two seconds serious thought to the mass majority of gods - from Abellio to Zeus. That modern day theists cling to the odd one here or there: Vishnu/Allah/Yahweh doesn't change anything.
I consider the very notion to be utter lunacy. Having said that, as with leprechauns, I am open to be shown wrong. I have no onus or ability to disprove a fantasy.
-=-
Perhaps there should be 2 categories of gods.
As for an omnipotent omniscient creator of the universe, you truly set that in the same category as leprechauns?
Perhaps there should be 2 categories of gods.
As for an omnipotent omniscient creator of the universe, you truly set that in the same category as leprechauns?
nope.
when the majority of the world believe in leprechauns(whatever they are), then you can't be so sure. THAT is why you you can't really call yourself an atheist. (and relate to logic anyway)
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
They believe in leprechauns only because they want to believe in leprechauns...
spidergoat,
That statement out of desparation.
I personally don't know any people who act violently in the name of their religion. All the violence commited in my area, are caused by people who
do not consider religion important.
In the case of Enver Hoxha, he created an "atheist state", violently forcing atheism on the population. He was a big fan of Stalin, and no doubt used Stalins tactics in his mission. So if what you say is true, atheism IS the aspect of communism which seeks to abolish religion and theism.
Darwinian evolution.
Not according to the ideals of Hoxha. Do you agree?
None of what you say here is reasonable.
It is the assumption of an atheist who seeks to blame all the worlds
conflicts on anything other than his own worldview.
The rules of God are clearly laid out (in the case of the bible, the 10 commandments)
Religion adheres to upholding the rules and regulations put forward by God, through his messenger (sometimes by himself). The 10 commandments is one
such example. Where in these commandments does it encourage oppression of women, or murder of those who think differently?
jan.
That statement out of desparation.
I personally don't know any people who act violently in the name of their religion. All the violence commited in my area, are caused by people who
do not consider religion important.
In the case of Enver Hoxha, he created an "atheist state", violently forcing atheism on the population. He was a big fan of Stalin, and no doubt used Stalins tactics in his mission. So if what you say is true, atheism IS the aspect of communism which seeks to abolish religion and theism.
Darwinian evolution.
Not according to the ideals of Hoxha. Do you agree?
None of what you say here is reasonable.
It is the assumption of an atheist who seeks to blame all the worlds
conflicts on anything other than his own worldview.
The rules of God are clearly laid out (in the case of the bible, the 10 commandments)
Religion adheres to upholding the rules and regulations put forward by God, through his messenger (sometimes by himself). The 10 commandments is one
such example. Where in these commandments does it encourage oppression of women, or murder of those who think differently?
jan.
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
Darwin has been proven right. The problem is that religion can be used as an arm, your rules laid out by your God can be bent and adapted and assume a different meaning... After all, muslims were progressive and Christians were oppressive in the Middle Ages, in the name of Santa Claus, or another being that nobody has ever seen. Everyone wants to believe to have something to do after death.
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The people I know, I can introduce you to so that you can know them also.
Only imaginary friends are that kind of "private."
You already do.
I seriously doubt that.
Hardly. And which "10 commandments" anyway? Exodus 20:2–17, Deuteronomy 5:6–21, or Exodus 34:11–27?
The consequences for not following them are found throughout the book of Deuteronomy. A favorite is stoning or being cursed even to the seventh generation. Luckily this was before "god" invented hell during the crusades.
let's look at them:
11 Observe what I command you today. See, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
12 Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you.
13 You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles
14 (for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).
15 You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone among them will invite you, and you will eat of the sacrifice.
16 And you will take wives from among their daughters for your sons, and their daughters who prostitute themselves to their gods will make your sons also prostitute themselves to their gods.
17 You shall not make cast idols.
18 You shall keep the festival of unleavened bread. For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.
19 All that first opens the womb is mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep.
20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.
No one shall appear before me empty-handed.
21 For six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even in ploughing time and in harvest time you shall rest.
22 You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.
23 Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.
24 For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.
25 You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.
26 The best of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God.
You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.
27 The Lord said to Moses: Write these words; in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
Of course there are hundreds more commandments, some of them really nasty.