Cottontop3000 said:
Yes, temporarily. Religion has been such a part of our very being for so long (from the first thinking human's first fear and un-answered question), that when some of us challenge the established order of things, religious zealots get defensive because they cannot think, or will not think, for themselves for a change. It is much easier to deny than to analyze. Analysis takes much hard work, whereas denial takes very little comparatively.
I could say the same things for some athiests (that it is easier to deny the existence of God than to have faith).
There is some truth to what you say about religion. But it is hard to say if religion is man made or not. One has to decide for himself. There was a time when I let logic and science determine what I believed, and said that it is man made. Then, God came to me unexpectedly. Then, I saw the hand that led me through the research in just a way so that I would be open to hear from God. I went to church one day just to shut some friends up from asking me to go to church. God knew I was going because the pastor knew I would be there, but I had not told anyone. Pastors take the week to prepare a lesson, but he knew I was coming and spoke directly to me and knew my heart like an open book. I gave my life to God that day, but that did not change my life. Today, I am a work in progress. That is why I choose to have this irrational belief of something that isn't observable, scientifically.
Cottontop3000 said:
Call it a hope more than true knowledge. I have seen first-hand what religion, and thus God, have done to our world. How can you not see it? I just hope there is a better answer.
No. I see people's lives changed by God. I know a two drug dealers personally who have never touched drugs since finding God. I know an alcoholic and a thief as well. I know an adulterer, I know people who used to not listen to God finally listen and find true peace. That is what I see. On the other hand, I see the hearts of men fail themselves and bad choices made by temporarily irrational people following their emotions and cause harm to themselves or others. I see canabals, murderes, pedifilers, and all sorts of scum walk the streets without remorse and with a lack of respect for human life, and even themselves.
Cottontop3000 said:
Are you saying that believers in a god are perfect? Are you saying that it is better to give some "god" credit for the good I do than it is to give myself a little credit now and again? I don't have the answers, but I'm not claiming to. Sometimes I like to think I do, and I have to beat myself up-side the head when I do, but I don't have all the answers. Neither do you, or anyone else, imo.
No, I'm saying that nobody's perfect. I'm saying without God, you logically do everything for yourself, even moral and justice are things that you get something out of...whether it is a reward, good feeling, or for the sake of justice. A society that promotes selfishness is doomed to fail. We can look at a group as small as two people working together. Obviously, it is better to work together for the other in order to accomplish greater things that one person. Any group or team that produces good results is comprised of individuals who are willing to work not for credit. In the same way a society (a team/group of many people) can accomplish more by being selfless.
True selflessness is only accomplished by working for a greater cause. This trait is not unique to Christians, but is more common in Christians. So, it stands to reason that if a society is composed of all Christians, then the group will be selfless.
Cottontop3000 said:
How do you know? Have you tried it without God? I've tried it both ways, sincerely, and I have found that without God is better for me and for those around me. Still, not perfect, imo, but better. At least now I see a light for me at the end of a very dark tunnel.
Yes, I was once a Catholic who struggled and I found it was better for me and for those around me to live without God. So I did. It was a hard time for me, but I got through okay. Then, God moved me, and I found a life that is always good. Even in tribulation I have peace, and I find that God works things out fantasically.
Cottontop3000 said:
That is a sad, theist perspective. Try telling god to fuck off for once. Go ahead, I know it's scary, maybe, but not such a bad thing. I wasn't struck down by lightning.
It is a pessimistic and cynical attitude of people. I can't help it when I see people I trust and who were good moral people with a rational mind, do some of the worst things to their brother and then get trapped in that state and never recover. Then, I look at my imperfections and I see them in me just wanting to reveal itself. I used to steal. I have lied many times to stay out of trouble. I still don't spend enough time with my children, even though there's progress. I still don't spend enough time with God, even though there's progress. I am capable of doing everything that the most evil person is. And everyone else I talk to, hide their skeletons and deny that they could do immoral things. The people I trusted say the same thing! "No, I could never beat my wife." People need to wake up and get real. Nobody's perfect, and that is the problem with living without perfection as your goal.
Cottontop3000 said:
We would still have all the same exact HUMAN reasons to not act like an animal. You think a human without a higher power can't see the causes and effects of his/her actions? You think that if I say there is no god, that I am automatically blinded to the fact that if I pinch some girl's ass, she will not possibly get angry. She could get angry because it hurt physically. I could understand this, and I would probably learn something from the experience. Some might not, but that is no different than the way things have been for thousands of years with all the gods of the world. You give yourself too little respect, and this is a symptom of religion saying we are worthless without a higher power. We are not. You should respect yourself more and god less.
You are blinded by your own self-righteousness. Our imperfection causes us to do things that we don't want to do with a sober mind. Yes, we see the causes and effects of our actions, but we turn a blind eye, or self-justify the actions so that we can sleep at night. We tell ourselves, "Oh, it's okay to grab her butt...everyone does it, shoot, she might just slap me, but it will be worth it!" Or maybe our logic doesn't even get as far as the slap and just acts. The most rational person many times acts before thinking. We are imperfect and logic fails us in the heat of the moment when we act on intuition. I'm sure Tom Cruise is a rational and good person, did that stop him from chewing the reporter's head off? Did he stop and think, "I might not yell at this guy because I have a new movie coming out and I can't afford a bad image, even if I'm right."
My cousin killed someone. He is a good guy and a rational thinker. Where was his rationale when he lit up the person who was drenched with gasoline. Many times a murderer looks and feels just like you and I, because he is just like you and I. My cousin gave up on God a long time ago before the event.
Cottontop3000 said:
Yes, but would you not want to make today better? Tomorrow even better. I would, and am, without god. You can do it too, if you want to stop the suffering in the world that is created by intolerance and division. We will never be perfect, so we shouldn't expect it of ourselves, we shouldn't place so much emphasis on attaining it, but accepting this makes it easier for me to be better to myself and to others.
Tomorrow will only get better if we are more perfect than today. It will be better only if less mistakes are made. Intolerance and division is caused by the hearts of men.
Some of America's founders, if not all, were Christian men who approved this nation's doctrines of freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You are free to worship whomever and say whatever in America, as far as I am concerned as long as it does no harm in the end. It is self-righteous religious people who cause the strife because of their own prejudices. They do not speak for me, I want no part of their religion, even if they claim they follow God, because they have forgotten to love their neighbor. Real Christian men and women are tolerant and patient, full of love and compassion for all. Your image of a Christian is probably as a Bible waving, hands in the air, loud, evangelist. That is the image of a relgious person who is in love with his religion. It is of a fanatic on the border of being a zealot. They read their Bibles and speak the truth, but even the devil knows the word of God.
Cottontop3000 said:
Most of the people I know that have money, are popular, etc., do claim to have god.
Talk is cheap. Most stars and influential people I know are not Christians.
