Atheistic Evangelism

[superluminal]

Right here:

- Freedom from self imposed repression
- Intellectual growth
- Rational morality and ethics based on a knowledge of real human nature
- True responsibility
- Respect for all humans and all creatures
- Discovery of the real nature of the universe and its wonders

And much, much more!

 

[water]

- Freedom from self imposed repression

Self-imposed repression of what?

- Intellectual growth

To what end or use?

- Rational morality and ethics based on a knowledge of real human nature

What is this morality to achieve?

- True responsibility

Define it.

- Respect for all humans and all creatures

On what grounds do you suppose such respect should exist?

- Discovery of the real nature of the universe and its wonders

To what end?

And much, much more!

Like?

 

[SkinWalker]

I've always wanted to get a few cases of soda and set up a couple of coolers and an empty box just down the street from the assholes that pass out those little new testaments. I'd put out a sign that says trade a bible for a Coke!

And, once the assholes with the bibles leave, go deposit the ones collected in the nearest recycle bin so some real use can be made of the paper.

It would be a great stunt for video taping and sending to someone like Reggie at Infidel Guy!

 

[jayleew]

I'm thinking of becoming a fire-and-brimstone, ummm... I mean plasma-and-sulfur compound, foaming-at-the-mouth Atheist Evangelist.

I am convinced that all of the intellectual arguments in the universe will never cause theists to leave the world alone and stay out of the business of holding humanity in the shackels of ignorance.

I am convinced that logic will never win a soul, either.

There is physical remnants that substantiate the Bible's claims and events, but that does not prove the Bible is true. The story could have been invented to explain the remnants.

For the logical mind, God is nearly impossible to believe in.

The best evidence for a logical mind, is the experiences of myself and other Christians "walking with God." It is impossible to believe in God if you have intelligence, without him showing you himself in situations, and in lives that are changed. If you aren't a Christian yet, then you or someone around you is not doing their job to inspire you or pray for you.

Logic alone is not enough to prove God's existence. Logical minds cannot be convinced, we must be shown it, and we must be able to know it, or it is as likely as that pigs can fly.

You can't know something is hot until you feel it, measure it, and know the definition of hot.

 

[jayleew]

Right here:

- Freedom from self imposed repression
- Intellectual growth
- Rational morality and ethics based on a knowledge of real human nature
- True responsibility
- Respect for all humans and all creatures
- Discovery of the real nature of the universe and its wonders

And much, much more!

Rational morality? Ethics based on a knowledge of real human nature?

Search your heart. You are probably a good person to the core and do everything for your family and those in need. I'm sure you hold the door for me as I walk in a restaurant, and help my grandma across the street. Your morality is relative to your knowledge and experiences.

The next morning I could be selling my kids off for a billion dollars so that I can afford to put them through college. We tell oursleves, "No, I would never do that." Are we just kidding ourselves? You never know what you are capable of until you are in the situation. I'm sure that the most sane person and moral person doesn't wake up one day and say, "Hey, I'm going to beat my wife." No, it just happens. We lose control, and our morality fails us. We excuse oursleves and say, "I'm sorry. Forgive me, I'll never do that again." The next day, the police are called, someone goes to jail, and a divorce takes place. And the children are raised to repeat the mistakes of the father by living in the same conditions. Their morality is defined by what dad did to mom and the child. When will it end?

I'm sure those Catholic priests did not decide one day when they woke up that they would molest a boy for the first time. I'm sure they got up, said a prayer, and went to church. Then in the back where no one sees, they let themselves compromise God's morality and make a mockery of everything God stands for. No moral or immoral person is immune to their immoral wishes.

Man alone is not capable of morality. The Pope is not capable of being moral all the time. Does that make it right? Should we all just accept that sometimes we make bad decisions and go on living? It only takes one pleasurable murder to become a serial killer.

You can have your "Rational morality and ethics based on a knowledge of real human nature." I want to try and live another way, and maybe find that God truly was behind everything in the end. If we were all real Christians, and not two-faced hypocrits, the world would be at peace (more or less) and there would conflicts, but we could get through them without someone dying as much as today. Poverty and hunger would definitely be stricken if the world was nothing but Christians. If you say I'm full of it, look at a good church with real Christians. The kind that would leave if the God left, not the kind that wouldn't know God left. We support each other and love each other unconditionally. There may be strife, but we work through it. Why can't this government and this nation perform that way without God? We try and make welfare programs and alcoholics anonymous, but the problems don't go away.

Rational morality doesn't work. We tried it, we live in it.

 

[Yorda]

You are slaves to an ancient instinct to follow the tribe lest you be ostracized.

I follow everyone, thus I follow no one.

You are emotionally weak and accept willful stupidity as a way of life.

How sad for you.

You can be washed in the cleansing waters of Rationalism and Objectivity.

There is no objectivity.

The universe - YOU - alive and aware! Examining itself!

If you really are the universe, why do you need to examine it? Why do you not understand it?

Ultimate truth stems NOT from internal reflection upon a false creation of your emotional weakness.

There is no absolutes, only temporary truths.

Use your INTELLECT to access the awesome consensual reality that is the universe around you!

How can it be around me if I am the universe?

My mind is the supreme expression of organization of the universe.

The universe is my body.

I am the universe awakened.

You're dreaming.

---

- True responsibility

What responsibility?

 

[superluminal]

Yorda,

Thanks for playing. You can pick up your door prize on the way out.

 

[superluminal]

water,

Don't bother responding to any more of my posts please. I'm looking for an intelligent theist. You, Jan, Lawdog(eek!), Jadon, and others have already ruled themselves out.

Unless you think can respond with some actual content rather that a series of rather dumb questions that belie your inability to actually counter the statements made?

 

[(Q)]

Super

Your opening post was excellent! However, I would humbly like to suggest, the following be stricken from your 'sermon' lest you ostracize, from the get-go, those you wish to illuminate:

"You are slaves to an ancient instinct to follow the tribe lest you be ostracized. This has no place in the world anymore. Your behavior is the same as that of a child kowtowing to the schoolyard bully.

It's time to GROW UP!

Your worldview is founded on fantasy and self imposed ignorance! You are emotionally weak and accept willful stupidity as a way of life.

But DESPAIR NOT!"

 

[superluminal]

(Q),

You are of course correct. But I never seriously expected to "convert" anyone with this. It is mainly a parody of christian evangelizing that I hoped would generate some interesting discussion, which it has.

 

[(Q)]

Rational morality doesn't work. We tried it, we live in it.

That's strange? I thought our current worldly situation was the result of hundreds of years of faith based reasoning. Silly me.

 

[Yorda]

You're all wrong about everything.

 

[Cris]

Yorda,

You're all wrong about everything.

You are absolutely correct. Ahh but wait, I'm wrong about everything.

 

[water]

superluminal,

Unless you think can respond with some actual content rather that a series of rather dumb questions that belie your inability to actually counter the statements made?

You are unable to justify your pursuits and your standards.
A rational agent, if he is to be a *rational* agent, must be able to give non-circular and non-selfreferential justifications.

 

[superluminal]

water:

You are unable to justify your pursuits and your standards.

Well, we already know that theists believe lies, so apparently it's easier for them to be liars.

A rational agent, if he is to be a *rational* agent, must be able to give non-circular and non-selfreferential justifications.

And, you of course never do that?.
The essence of thestic belief is circular and self referential by its nature.

"I believe in a god because a book, which I believe in, is the word of god."

or

"I see complexity everywhere that I can't explain so god must have created it all. Therefore, since things are so complex, I believe in god."

Can you say pi x D?

Whereas scientific thought is completely non-circular and non-selfreferential by it's nature.

"I will make simple observations, state a hypothesis, and test it. If tests support it, fine, if not I will make more observations, state a new hypothesis, and test it." Or I will give up and become a theologian.

So, water. Will you continue to fabricate lies to support your position? Or will you admit that you are simply emotionally and mentally weak and require the existence of a god to sustain you?

 

[water]

Well, we already know that theists believe lies, so apparently it's easier for them to be liars.

Do you think that a person who lies must be responded to with a lie?

The essence of thestic belief is circular and self referential by its nature.

"I believe in a god because a book, which I believe in, is the word of god."

or

"I see complexity everywhere that I can't explain so god must have created it all. Therefore, since things are so complex, I believe in god."

These are strawmen.

Whereas scientific thought is completely non-circular and non-selfreferential by it's nature.

"I will make simple observations, state a hypothesis, and test it. If tests support it, fine, if not I will make more observations, state a new hypothesis, and test it."

And what of it?

So, water. Will you continue to fabricate lies to support your position? Or will you admit that you are simply emotionally and mentally weak and require the existence of a god to sustain you?

Well, such are your reasons for belief in God. Which says nothing about why other people believe in God.

 

[superluminal]

“ Originally Posted by superluminal
Well, we already know that theists believe lies, so apparently it's easier for them to be liars. ”

Do you think that a person who lies must be responded to with a lie?

Do you know what you are talking about?

“ The essence of thestic belief is circular and self referential by its nature.

"I believe in a god because a book, which I believe in, is the word of god."

or

"I see complexity everywhere that I can't explain so god must have created it all. Therefore, since things are so complex, I believe in god." ”

These are strawmen.

No, they are not. They are the only utimate statements I have ever seen any theist capable of giving. They are the true statements of theists. And they also strike terror into your mind because they are ultimately all you have.

Now, try to write something coherent that describes why your belief is NOT circular or self referential.

Can you?

Will you?

“ Whereas scientific thought is completely non-circular and non-selfreferential by it's nature.

"I will make simple observations, state a hypothesis, and test it. If tests support it, fine, if not I will make more observations, state a new hypothesis, and test it." ”

And what of it?

Umm... This is known as the counterpoint to the negative assertion.

“ So, water. Will you continue to fabricate lies to support your position? Or will you admit that you are simply emotionally and mentally weak and require the existence of a god to sustain you? ”

Well, such are your reasons for belief in God. Which says nothing about why other people believe in God.

My belief in... HaHaHa! Liar! Of course it does! Most people believe in god because the bible (qur'an, etc.) tells them so! And on who's authority is the bible based? Gods!

So, why do you believe, water?

Why?

 

[superluminal]

water,

Prove to me that you are not an AI. Your responses make me think that we are unwitting participants in a turing test.

To all,

I believe that water is a person and a computer. The primary investigator (AKA, water - the person) composes content rich posts to start things off, then the computer (AKA, water - the AI) is allowed to respond to the following posts and responses.

I believe this to be someones thesis project or postdoc work.

What are your thoughts?

 

[superluminal]

This is a poem of sorts that I wrote to water in another forum and I think she missed it. I was hoping to get a point-by-point response to each question posed:

Water?

Do you have an inability to inject your own content?

Can you only ask questions?

Are you trying to make us think?

Do you think we think your God supports hypocrisy by the very nature of this thread?

What god do you subscribe to?

"Really? What god?". Do you not know which god you follow?

Do you believe in a god?

Or are you just confused?

Are you really that unintelligent?

Or just that annoying?

Will you answer these questions?

Or will you ask more of your own?

What's up?

How's it going?

Will it rain today?

 

[water]

superluminal,

Do you think that a person who lies must be responded to with a lie?

Do you know what you are talking about?

Yes.

These are strawmen.

No, they are not. They are the only utimate statements I have ever seen any theist capable of giving. They are the true statements of theists. And they also strike terror into your mind because they are ultimately all you have.

They are all you were ever willing to see.

Now, try to write something coherent that describes why your belief is NOT circular or self referential.

Romans 10:13
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Romans 9:16-18
For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
or the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

"I will make simple observations, state a hypothesis, and test it. If tests support it, fine, if not I will make more observations, state a new hypothesis, and test it." ” ”

And what of it?

Umm... This is known as the counterpoint to the negative assertion.

What do your experiments bring you?

Most people believe in god because the bible (qur'an, etc.) tells them so!

Have you asked them? You have several billions of interviews to make.

So, why do you believe, water?

Why?

I have been shown great mercy.