Atheistic Evangelism

[§outh§tar]

LMFAO,

Sorry to inform you, but almost 3500 years before Scientists, the Holy Scriptures had proclaimed the Earth to 'round' and 'hanging upon nothing'.

Can you quote some of these verses for us?

P.S. Are Christians even allowed to say "LMFAO"?

 

[superluminal]

P.S. Are Christians even allowed to say "LMFAO"?

Good point. Jadon is clearly going to hell.

 

[Jadon]

Superluminal,

Is LMFAO in reference to a swear, because if it is , then I cannot understand why anyone, unless he or she is a monkey, would want to do so.

 

[superluminal]

Laughing My Fucking Ass Off.

I think it's a very fucking nice acronym. And monkey's, while very intelligent, don't have the goddamned vocal apparatus to form words, let alone swears.

Why do you constantly anthropomorphize with 'monkey' or 'Baboon' references. Do you think that's insulting? I'm proud to be of the great line of primates and the mammals and earlier life forms that came before, back to the first self-organizing molecules.

I think it's shitkicking to contemplate the vastness of the cosmos in space and time. Fuck yeah!

 

[Jadon]

Superluminal,

Correction: there is no Great in Primates.

Obviously you cannot see the uniqueness of the Human specie. I am puzzled - you do not even know yourself- and you want to think to know everything!!



You are indeed correct -- you are a Baboon>!!!

Have some bananas for me/maybe you are actually a baboon.

 

[Raithere]

Obviously you cannot see the uniqueness of the Human specie.

What's unique about the human species? Aside, perhaps, from their ability to be deluded by fantasy, as your excellent example demonstrates.

~Raithere

 

[Jadon]

Raithere,

You would indeed be a Genius amongst baboons, or would you?

Even the lesser creatures know their place. As human beings we are their masters and were designed accordingly so.

Oh well, whatever, I guess you cannot argue with baboons. I wonder if the creatures would accept you as one of them.

Interesting scientific challenge!!!!

 

[water]

Yorda,

It would have been better for God not to create the world because people have to suffer

You are saying nothing is better than something.

(not that I think he would have been able to choose otherwise)
/.../
I don't think God is good or evil. I think he has no choice. I think he is like nature. I guess the word God is becoming kind of superfluous to me...

Then the god you are thinking of is the god bound by necessity.
I suggest you read this: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

 

[Cris]

Jadon,

Even the lesser creatures know their place.

How is this achieved since they lack the appropriate brain capacity? Only humans have full self-awareness.

As human beings we are their masters and were designed accordingly so.

There is nothing to indicate humans were designed. What is your evidence for such a fantastic claim?

 

[mouse]

Even the lesser creatures know their place. As human beings we are their masters and were designed accordingly so.

Do lesser creatures know their place? I've been attacked by cats, dogs and other lower mammals. Every summer night I am a nicely laid out buffet for musquitos. Apparently, they do not seem to appreciate me as their master. And why should they? Compared to most felines e.g., my ability to smell is negligble, my vision is poor, my hearing is rather limited and my muscles are underpowered. In short, for a hungry member of a large feline family, I'm no match.

Among our few strong points is our intelligence and our ability to form groups. It is only relatively recently that we've been able to exploit those traits to the point that we can defend ourselves properly against predators. But we still have huge gaps in our defences. Only seven hunderd years ago our inability to understand the black plague and it presumable mammalian carriers, took 1/3rd of Europe's population. There is no guarantee that something similar would not happen again.

Thus, masters? No, not yet.

 

[Raithere]

You would indeed be a Genius amongst baboons, or would you?

You said unique, not superior. I was simply wondering what was unique about humans.

Even the lesser creatures know their place. As human beings we are their masters and were designed accordingly so.

I suggest you go have this discussion in the lion's den and see if it holds true.

Oh well, whatever, I guess you cannot argue with baboons. I wonder if the creatures would accept you as one of them.

Again this obsession with baboons.... is there something we should know?

~Raithere

 

[Cottontop3000]

Cottontop3000,
I welcome sound criticism.
However, if the person asking me questions is bombarding me with insults, I have every reason to doubt that they are honestly asking for answers.

That's a two-way street water. So far, I haven't heard anything from you that I haven't heard a thousand times before, from other theists. Therefore, I get tired of you, though it is hard to respond in a civil manner anymore. You're delusion is just too frustrating because it is soooooo based on emotional neediness.

No, what you say does not follow from what I've said.
Why do you think that God is not merciful?

If one person is not shown mercy, you're god is not merciful. You yourself say that he picks and chooses, for his own reasons. You're quotes, from scripture, from the Bible, back this up (at least from that part of the Bible). This, to me, is not the sign of a true god. And before you ask me what the sign of a true God is to me, don't bother. You're questions have become quite tedious. And before you ask me why they are tedious to me, don't bother. And before you ask me why I say "don't bother," don't bother.

I suppose this is saying why *you* would go and look for God.

This is simply saying why I quit looking for the god of the bible, or any god of man. Man does not need the concept of god any longer. This concept, imo, has served it's purpose. What would happen if we erased the very notion of any god from our vocabularies? T'would be a much different world, a much kinder world, a much, much more peaceful world. Let's replace the word god with something else. The real question, to me, is what to replace god with? Science? Might be a good start. I feel like we have just "settled" for mediocrity when it comes to the whole concept of "god" as our answer to un-answered questions. What other explanations can we come up with, besides "god?"

 

[jayleew]

This is simply saying why I quit looking for the god of the bible, or any god of man. Man does not need the concept of god any longer. This concept, imo, has served it's purpose. What would happen if we erased the very notion of any god from our vocabularies? T'would be a much different world, a much kinder world, a much, much more peaceful world.

So, is that why the more we take God out of things the worse things are getting?

How can you say that the world would be better, kinder, and more peaceful?

It would be the opposite. If there is nothing to live for, than you are living for yourself. Without a belief in a higher power, everything you decide to do, whether it is to help granny across the street, or shoot up drugs, it is what you want to do.

If I didn't believe in God, I would be doing a lot of immoral things, some legal, some not. I would still care for people and be a good person, but I would still stab my brother in the back if it there was enough profit involved to do so. It is naive to assume that without religion the world would be better. It is a false presumption. People are not peaceful by nature, if you look at human history. We would be vengeful people with the eye-for-an-eye attitude, or worse. Just truthfully search yourself, and you know that if the price was right, you could be bought. If the circumstances were right, you would act in an immoral way that you would normally not act.

In short, without a belief in a superior state of existence, we would be animals, without the ability to defy all the instincts that come with being an animal because we would not have a reason to defy the basic instincts.

We would have nothing to live for, but today. And you are optomistic of human behavior, if not naive, if you think that is a good thing. If you need an example look at our society that doesn't believe in God. Specifically, anyone who has a lot of money, popular, and without God.

 

[(Q)]

How can you say that the world would be better, kinder, and more peaceful?

Religion divides people, that is a fact. They oppose each others view to the point of violence, that is also a fact. Note how lack of religion might be a solution?

Without a belief in a higher power, everything you decide to do, whether it is to help granny across the street, or shoot up drugs, it is what you want to do.

Of course, and those same things could be done with a belief in a higher power. The difference is that a rational mind would find it irrational to shoot up drugs and would most likely not get involved with it.

If I didn't believe in God, I would be doing a lot of immoral things, some legal, some not.

Why would you do immoral and illegal things? That runs counter to what any rational person would do.

I would still stab my brother in the back if it there was enough profit involved to do so.

Then you obviously need psychiatric help. A rational person would not do such a thing, instead they most likley would seek their brothers help.

It is naive to assume that without religion the world would be better.

No, it is naive to think that such a possibility could not work and you are only saying so because to agree would be contrary to your beliefs.

People are not peaceful by nature, if you look at human history.

The Crusades and the Inquisitions, for example.

If the circumstances were right, you would act in an immoral way that you would normally not act.

You cannot possibly make that distinction as you haven't the capacity to imagine living a life of reason and rationale.

If you need an example look at our society that doesn't believe in God. Specifically, anyone who has a lot of money, popular, and without God.

Who? Name one.

 

[Raithere]

So, is that why the more we take God out of things the worse things are getting?

By what measure are "things" getting worse? There was a time when God was invested in pretty much every aspect of "western" society. We call that time the Dark Ages.

It would be the opposite. If there is nothing to live for, than you are living for yourself.

If I didn't believe in God, I would be doing a lot of immoral things, some legal, some not. I would still care for people and be a good person, but I would still stab my brother in the back if it there was enough profit involved to do so.

In other words you only behave morally because you expect a reward (or to escape punishment). Not a particularly sound ethical position, is it?

In short, without a belief in a superior state of existence, we would be animals, without the ability to defy all the instincts that come with being an animal because we would not have a reason to defy the basic instincts.

In other words, you believe that atheists are animals.

We would have nothing to live for, but today.

You're forgetting about tomorrow.

All in all it's a terribly bleak outlook you have there jayleew. I'm actually glad you do believe in religion since you're self-admittedly the kind of nasty person who needs the threat of punishment and the hope of reward to behave ethically.

~Raithere

 

[geeser]

one other point, Q: jayleew made his last post from an irrational perspective, you are expecting him to think rationally, thats an impossiblity. if he was a clear/freethinker which he is not, he would see his statement for what it is, pure horse shit.

as a clear/freethinker I am more moral than any religious person could ever be, I do good because I wish too, not because theres an aledged pot of gold at the end of it.(afterlife heaven etc..)

 

[Cottontop3000]

So, is that why the more we take God out of things the worse things are getting?

Yes, temporarily. Religion has been such a part of our very being for so long (from the first thinking human's first fear and un-answered question), that when some of us challenge the established order of things, religious zealots get defensive because they cannot think, or will not think, for themselves for a change. It is much easier to deny than to analyze. Analysis takes much hard work, whereas denial takes very little comparatively.

How can you say that the world would be better, kinder, and more peaceful?

Call it a hope more than true knowledge. I have seen first-hand what religion, and thus God, have done to our world. How can you not see it? I just hope there is a better answer.

It would be the opposite.

I don't think so.

If there is nothing to live for, than you are living for yourself.

Better, imo, to live as yourself, than as an ideal that is un-achievable in this life.

Without a belief in a higher power, everything you decide to do, whether it is to help granny across the street, or shoot up drugs, it is what you want to do.

Are you saying that believers in a god are perfect? Are you saying that it is better to give some "god" credit for the good I do than it is to give myself a little credit now and again? I don't have the answers, but I'm not claiming to. Sometimes I like to think I do, and I have to beat myself up-side the head when I do, but I don't have all the answers. Neither do you, or anyone else, imo.

If I didn't believe in God, I would be doing a lot of immoral things, some legal, some not.

How do you know? Have you tried it without God? I've tried it both ways, sincerely, and I have found that without God is better for me and for those around me. Still, not perfect, imo, but better. At least now I see a light for me at the end of a very dark tunnel.

I would still care for people and be a good person, but I would still stab my brother in the back if it there was enough profit involved to do so.

That is a sad, theist perspective. Try telling god to fuck off for once. Go ahead, I know it's scary, maybe, but not such a bad thing. I wasn't struck down by lightning.

It is naive to assume that without religion the world would be better.

It is more naive to think that god has done any good in this world.

People are not peaceful by nature, if you look at human history.

A human history dominated by gods, sure.

We would be vengeful people with the eye-for-an-eye attitude, or worse.

Where does the eye-for-an-eye concept come from again?

Just truthfully search yourself, and you know that if the price was right, you could be bought.

Probably. Are you saying that you have never been bought? Has your god helped you to become perfect already? Things are not black and white, as you probably think.

If the circumstances were right, you would act in an immoral way that you would normally not act.

Give me a "for-instance" please.

In short, without a belief in a superior state of existence, we would be animals, without the ability to defy all the instincts that come with being an animal because we would not have a reason to defy the basic instincts.

We would still have all the same exact HUMAN reasons to not act like an animal. You think a human without a higher power can't see the causes and effects of his/her actions? You think that if I say there is no god, that I am automatically blinded to the fact that if I pinch some girl's ass, she will not possibly get angry. She could get angry because it hurt physically. I could understand this, and I would probably learn something from the experience. Some might not, but that is no different than the way things have been for thousands of years with all the gods of the world. You give yourself too little respect, and this is a symptom of religion saying we are worthless without a higher power. We are not. You should respect yourself more and god less.

We would have nothing to live for, but today.

Yes, but would you not want to make today better? Tomorrow even better. I would, and am, without god. You can do it too, if you want to stop the suffering in the world that is created by intolerance and division. We will never be perfect, so we shouldn't expect it of ourselves, we shouldn't place so much emphasis on attaining it, but accepting this makes it easier for me to be better to myself and to others.

And you are optomistic of human behavior, if not naive, if you think that is a good thing.

I hope so.

If you need an example look at our society that doesn't believe in God. Specifically, anyone who has a lot of money, popular, and without God.

Most of the people I know that have money, are popular, etc., do claim to have god.

 

[Yorda]

You are saying nothing is better than something.

Yes, I think nothing is "better" than something. Nothingness is "perfection" itself.

Only nothingness is, only nothingness can be.

That's a two-way street water. So far, I haven't heard anything from you that I haven't heard a thousand times before, from other theists. Therefore, I get tired of you, though it is hard to respond in a civil manner anymore. You're delusion is just too frustrating because it is soooooo based on emotional neediness.

Hey, what's going on? It wasn't such a long time you said water was the most intelligent person you have met (or something similar)

 

[jayleew]

Religion divides people, that is a fact. They oppose each others view to the point of violence, that is also a fact. Note how lack of religion might be a solution?

True, religion does divide, but we are not a bunch of Spocks who do not succumb to illogical feelings and emotions. When we are moved, we act regardless of morality, and many times without thinking first.

Why would you do immoral and illegal things? That runs counter to what any rational person would do.

Because we are not beings that are always rational, we all lose our rationality (good or bad) at one point or another, we are not robots.

I would still stab my brother in the back if it there was enough profit involved to do so.

Then you obviously need psychiatric help. A rational person would not do such a thing, instead they most likley would seek their brothers help.

Do you think a soon to be murder wakes up and says to himself, "Oh, I think i'm going to murder someone today"? I bet he is a rational person most of the time.

It is naive to assume that without religion the world would be better.

No, it is naive to think that such a possibility could not work and you are only saying so because to agree would be contrary to your beliefs.

No, I am saying this because I turn on the television, read the newspaper and see best friends, lovers, brothers, fathers, sons, kill each other, steal from one another, rape, and you fill the blank. I see perfectly rational people in my family make immoral decisions because it works to their benefit.

People are not peaceful by nature, if you look at human history.
The Crusades and the Inquisitions, for example.

Good example. People are not peaceful by nature. We are a slave to our emotions. We are not robots who are only capable of rational thought.

If the circumstances were right, you would act in an immoral way that you would normally not act.

You cannot possibly make that distinction as you haven't the capacity to imagine living a life of reason and rationale.

I am no different than you. I live a life of reason and rationale, but emotions and instincts get in the way.

If you need an example look at our society that doesn't believe in God. Specifically, anyone who has a lot of money, popular, and without God.

Who? Name one.

Donald Trump, most of Hollywood, and definitely the music industry. Anytime money is involved, rational thought fails to survive. Our survival instincts kick in, and our emotions finish us off.

Who on Earth has not at least lied one time or another? You are naive to say that people are rational beings that will get along just fine without religion. Regardless of what I believe, religion is a tool to control the people.

 

[(Q)]

True, religion does divide

Therefore, it must be eliminated. Thank you.

Do you think a soon to be murder wakes up and says to himself, "Oh, I think i'm going to murder someone today"?

Atheists and theists both have the capacity to murder, so what? That has nothing to do with the arguments.

No, I am saying this because I turn on the television, read the newspaper and see best friends, lovers, brothers, fathers, sons, kill each other, steal from one another, rape, and you fill the blank.

Fill in what blank? The fact that you are viewing a society based on hundreds of years of theist reasoning?

People are not peaceful by nature. We are a slave to our emotions. We are not robots who are only capable of rational thought.

You may speak for yourself and those like you, but I am not a slave to my emotions nor am I a robot, and no one I've ever met who does not accept god isn't either.

I am no different than you. I live a life of reason and rationale, but emotions and instincts get in the way.

No, you are VERY different than me, we do not think alike at all.

The maximum extent of your reason and rationale is that which is placed directly in front of your face in which you cannot deny or reject. For example, you most likely will not identify an apple other than anything but an apple.

Who on Earth has not at least lied one time or another? You are naive to say that people are rational beings that will get along just fine without religion.

Let's give it a try anyways, and if it doesn't work, we can go back to ignorance.

Regardless of what I believe, religion is a tool to control the people.

Exactly, people controlling other people.