Atheism is a belief.

[Tht1Gy!]

Evening!

I don't know why this discussion is centered on belief. Belief, in and of itself, is of little import. The Bible (obviously the Christian perspective) tells us,
Your thoughts? - Jesse.

My thoughts? This thread is centered on belief because it's the basic premise of my OP. Many Atheists speak as if, just because they don't believe in a god in one fashion or another, that their opinion should carry more weight in matters of science. That someone who does believe in some sort of god has no right giving an opinion about science. (A bit of an overstatement, true.)

The bible, the Christian bible is not germane. Now I have no problem with someone who comes with a Christian perspective, but please keep it in your perspective, not our faces.

I apologize if I'm being harsh or jumping the gun, it's just when I first started posting threads, they kept getting highjacked by christians wanting to convert others.

 

[Enmos]

I'm not making a case that it would just be your belief. That seems like another discussion. I am saying that any assertion we make that we think is true is a belief. It may be other things also. But in the context of the thread 'Atheism is a belief' I was focusing on whether or not you, as one kind of atheist, had an atheism that was a belief. I think there are atheists where their atheism is not a belief. They probably don't think about the issue much. Maybe someone asks them if they believe in God and they shrug and say 'nope'. (as one possible example, where I am using the blaseness of their physical and verbal response to convey something about their stance or really lack of it.)

I used to be like that, but places like this force you to think about it.
Theists here seem to demand an explanation for my atheism.

The most simple explanation is this:
Theists belief in a God, whereas atheists do not hold such a belief.

 

[Tht1Gy!]

I used to be like that, but places like this force you to think about it.
Theists here seem to demand an explanation for my atheism.

The most simple explanation is this:
Theists belief in a God, whereas atheists do not hold such a belief.

Well, I have no attachment to what you or anyone believes. My issue is with those who behave with the attitude "Go ahead believe in a god, (fool). I know the truth. I'm an atheist. God is a fantasy".

 

[Enmos]

Well, I have no attachment to what you or anyone believes. My issue is with those who behave with the attitude "Go ahead believe in a god, (fool). I know the truth. I'm an atheist. God is a fantasy".

Your beef isn't with atheists that think they are right and theists are wrong.
Everyone thinks their views are right, otherwise they wouldn't holds those views.
Your beef is with assholes, no matter whether they are atheist or not.

 

[Tht1Gy!]

Your beef isn't with atheists that think they are right and theists are wrong.
Everyone thinks their views are right, otherwise they wouldn't holds those views.
Your beef is with assholes, no matter whether they are atheist or not.

Well kinda. My beef is with their arrogance. It's as bad as christian arrogance.

I believe in my views, but I don't think they are the ONLY right views. And besides, my views might be wrong.

 

[Enmos]

Well kinda. My beef is with their arrogance. It's as bad as christian arrogance.

So you see, it has nothing to do with what the persons views are, but what his/her attitude is.

I believe in my views, but I don't think they are the ONLY right views. And besides, my views might be wrong.

Well that is kind of problematic if you're an atheist. You can't say that you think your views are right but that other views may be right as well (such as Christianity).
Yes, your views might be wrong. My views might be wrong. But we're both convinced that they are not, otherwise you wouldn't hold those views.

 

[Tht1Gy!]

So you see, it has nothing to do with what the person believes, but what his/her attitude is.

Yeah, what's your point?

Well that is kind of problematic if you're an atheist.

Build a bridge.

You can't say that you think your views are right but that other views may be right as well (such as Christianity). Yes I can. In fact I did.

Yes, your views might be wrong. My views might be wrong. But we're both convinced that they are not, otherwise you wouldn't hold those views.

There is that.

... gotta sleep...:zzz:

 

[Enmos]

Yeah, what's your point?

Build a bridge.
There is that.

... gotta sleep...:zzz:

My point is that you shouldn't focus on atheists, or Christians for that matter.
You just have a problem with assholes, like most people have and are.

Sleep well

 

[phlogistician]

IfTake your pick. #3 is the only correct way to define Atheism. Those who don't know for sure are not atheists. Those who never heard of concept of God are not atheists.

People who have never heard of god are atheists exactly. If you aren't in the 'pro' camp, you are an atheist. It really is that simple.

All you are trying to do is twist accepted definitions. Or you just don't understand them. Go learn the terms of debate and get back to us, so we can debate on common ground.

 

[phlogistician]

Evening!

I don't know why this discussion is centered on belief. Belief, in and of itself, is of little import. The Bible ... Your thoughts? - Jesse.

I think quoting scripture is the least productive way of trying to make a point in debate, as the sane do not accept it's validity, and you rather have to prove it has some merit first.

 

[Myles]

Evening!

I don't know why this discussion is centered on belief. Belief, in and of itself, is of little import. The Bible (obviously the Christian perspective) tells us, "So you think you do well to believe do you? Foolish man! Even Satan believes - and shudders!"

I take it you regard belief as all-important when it comes to what Paul says. Like many other Bible thumpers , what you are offering is your personal take on things based on cherry picking the Bible.

Paul did a lot of ranting.Do you accept everything else he said as well ?

 

[Tht1Gy!]

I think quoting scripture is the least productive way of trying to make a point in debate, as the sane do not accept it's validity, and you rather have to prove it has some merit first.

See, here's my point. While I think this comment is funny, it's also very arrogant. Calling those who accept the christian bible insane. Many christians are sane. (I never thought I'd be defending christians. )
Though s/he is right about quoting scripture as unproductive in this context.

More to say but gotta go.

 

[(Q)]

Evening!

I don't know why this discussion is centered on belief. Belief, in and of itself, is of little import.

So, from a Christian perspective, merely believing is worthless.

That is merely the brainwashing you've undergone. "Belief" is first and foremost in any cult, without belief, you have squat.

There's only ONE thing that matters in this life and that's LOVE.

Neither of those have anything to do with cults or beliefs.

But, since you decided to cherry pick the bible, here's some passages promoting your gods "love":

"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)

"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." (Numbers 16:32-35)

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:29-30)

"And there came out against them Zerah the Ethiopian with an host of a thousand thousand, and three hundred chariots..." (II Chronicles 14:9)

So the LORD smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled. (II Chronicles 14:12)

"And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts." (Exodus 11:4-5)

"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." (I Samuel 6:19)

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)

"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

Perhaps it's clearer, after reading the above, why the Bible tells us, 'GOD *IS* LOVE.'

Your thoughts? - Jesse.

The "love" just keeps on "flowing" from your god while blood keeps on "flowing" over the earth.

 

[Simon Anders]

I used to be like that, but places like this force you to think about it.
Theists here seem to demand an explanation for my atheism.

The most simple explanation is this:
Theists belief in a God, whereas atheists do not hold such a belief.

That's talking about groups. I think a lot of atheists actually think there is no God. Which is a belief. I have no idea what the %ages are.

 

[Enmos]

That's talking about groups. I think a lot of atheists actually think there is no God. Which is a belief. I have no idea what the %ages are.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=84187

 

[(Q)]

That's talking about groups. I think a lot of atheists actually think there is no God. Which is a belief. I have no idea what the %ages are.

Would that be the same kind of 'belief' one has in a supernatural sky daddy or the kind of 'belief' in the sun rising in the morning?

 

[Simon Anders]

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=84187

I don't really see how this is a response to what I said.

 

[Enmos]

I'm sick and tired of this discussion about atheism. Fuck atheism.

 

[Simon Anders]

Would that be the same kind of 'belief' one has in a supernatural sky daddy or the kind of 'belief' in the sun rising in the morning?

Sure, those beliefs are all made of neurons .

To answer your question: In some ways, yes. It is a claim about reality. Simply lacking a belief does not involve a claim. Saying that nothing has convinced you to believe in God is not a claim, or, more precisely it is a claim only about yourself and on that is impossible to contest unless I find you sneaking off to church and muttering prayers when you seem to think you are alone.

 

[Simon Anders]

I'm sick and tired of this discussion about atheism. Fuck atheism.

and fuck theism!!!

I felt it was only fair to get into the spirit of your post.