Atheism is a belief.

[Simon Anders]

You have gathered correctly..

Then you perhaps can consider the urge to poop KNOWLEDGE! Age, however, may on occasion demote your interpretation of the feeling to mere belief. Congratulations, however.

Of course for it to be considered knowledge you would have to be tested. I would see the test as follows:
1) each time you feel the urge to poop during the day you would ring a bell.
2) the scientists monitoring you would then check to see if, indeed, a productive bowel movement followed shortly upon the bell ringing
3) bowel movements that were not preceded by bell ringing could be considered counter evidence: ie. you might be waiting for really clear signals and thus biasing the test. A lie detector test might also be appropriate.

 

[Enmos]

Then you perhaps can consider the urge to poop KNOWLEDGE! Age, however, may on occasion demote your interpretation of the feeling to mere belief. Congratulations, however.

lol ok, I will accept your wise words

 

[phlogistician]

See, here's my point. While I think this comment is funny, it's also very arrogant. Calling those who accept the christian bible insane. Many christians are sane. (I never thought I'd be defending christians.

Go and read revelations, and tell me if it reads like the words of a sane man.

Now, tell me if a fundamentalist that believes the end of the world is going to go down as stated, literally, are they sane? Hey, you can't spell 'fundamentalist' without 'mentalist'!!!!!!!

Also, do you really believe in the virgin birth? The miracles? The resurrection?

Please, to believe in such is insane.

I can deal with apologetics, who admit the embellishments and the tale growing in the telling (although wish they would distance themselves from organised christianity) but that the message of peace and love Jesus allegedly told had some value, but I cannot take fundies seriously, or admit they are sane.

Buddhist koans are often not true stories, for instance, but that does not mean that they cannot contain truth, or enlightenment.

That is a sane approach to religion, but truly believing some things as true now, when many of the people that allegedly met Jesus then weren't swayed by him, definitely is insane.

 

[Myles]

That's only a belief.. lol

Don't sit there until your belief becomes knowledge. It will be too late.

Knowledge is justifiable belief !

 

[buckybeam]

Go and read revelations, and tell me if it reads like the words of a sane man.

That is a sane approach to religion, but truly believing some things as true now, when many of the people that allegedly met Jesus then weren't swayed by him, definitely is insane.

many things we have come to believe are founded in the trust of someone else observations.

i assume that the planets revolve around the sun because someone has told me it is true and i trust in the math that predicts their movements. but i have never flown to the outskirts of the solar system and witnessed it myself. and even if i did travel there, far enough that i could see all the planets in their orbits what would i see? a bunch of "little stars". it wouldn't be much to witness. say you wanted absolute proof that all the planets revolve around the sun.... well you would need to observe the solar system from that point in space for 165 years. when you came back to tell your tale you would then have to explain to everybody that those little white dots are the planets. Neptune hasn't even made one complete orbit around the sun since its discovery (though its close to having done so). so a lot of trust.

say im really 10,000 years old and i have really witnessed all that occurred in both testaments of the bible. most would think that i was really insane because it would not fit within their preconceived scientific model. im not saying that the bible is definitive proof of what has occurred. im just saying that we can not really prove that it isn't.

we can use the drake equation to predict intelligent life in our galaxy. if some of that life was super intelligent? using the multiverse models, who knows what may have been created and given the laws of their universe what their limitations are.

 

[Myles]

Then you perhaps can consider the urge to poop KNOWLEDGE! Age, however, may on occasion demote your interpretation of the feeling to mere belief. Congratulations, however.

Of course for it to be considered knowledge you would have to be tested. I would see the test as follows:
1) each time you feel the urge to poop during the day you would ring a bell.
2) the scientists monitoring you would then check to see if, indeed, a productive bowel movement followed shortly upon the bell ringing
3) bowel movements that were not preceded by bell ringing could be considered counter evidence: ie. you might be waiting for really clear signals and thus biasing the test. A lie detector test might also be appropriate.

Pavlov was a Russian. And George Bush will tell you what "lyin' bastards them Russians are "

 

[Myles]

many things we have come to believe are founded in the trust of someone else observations.

i assume that the planets revolve around the sun because someone has told me it is true and i trust in the math that predicts their movements. but i have never flown to the outskirts of the solar system and witnessed it myself. and even if i did travel there, far enough that i could see all the planets in their orbits what would i see? a bunch of "little stars". it wouldn't be much to witness. say you wanted absolute proof that all the planets revolve around the sun.... well you would need to observe the solar system from that point in space for 165 years. when you came back to tell your tale you would then have to explain to everybody that those little white dots are the planets. Neptune hasn't even made one complete orbit around the sun since its discovery (though its close to having done so). so a lot of trust.

say im really 10,000 years old and i have really witnessed all that occurred in both testaments of the bible. most would think that i was really insane because it would not fit within their preconceived scientific model. im not saying that the bible is definitive proof of what has occurred. im just saying that we can not really prove that it isn't.

we can use the drake equation to predict intelligent life in our galaxy. if some of that life was super intelligent? using the multiverse models, who knows what may have been created and given the laws of their universe what their limitations are.

The drake equation is only a way of ducking the real issue !

 

[buckybeam]

The drake equation is only a way of ducking the real issue !

real issue???

 

[Simon Anders]

Pavlov was a Russian. And George Bush will tell you what "lyin' bastards them Russians are "

Please note the protocol: the bell is rung AFTER the urge, not before. All you skinnersians with your fetish for total control...find an island!

 

[Simon Anders]

lol ok, I will accept your wise words

I sense a mixed message. You might want to read Gregory Bateson's essays on that topic in Steps to an Ecology of Mind.

 

[Enmos]

I sense a mixed message. You might want to read Gregory Bateson's essays on that topic in Steps to an Ecology of Mind.

No mixed message my friend, I'm just being funny

 

[Myles]

Please note the protocol: the bell is rung AFTER the urge, not before. All you skinnersians with your fetish for total control...find an island![/QUOTE

If the bell is rung after the first urge then logically it precedes the next urge.

I am not a Skinnerian. There is neither freedom nor dignity in crapping. When a man's got to go , a man's got to go. There is no going beyond !

 

[Myles]

real issue???

Come on now, you're playing ducks and drakes with me.

 

[Simon Anders]

Please note the protocol: the bell is rung AFTER the urge, not before. All you skinnersians with your fetish for total control...find an island!

If the bell is rung after the first urge then logically it precedes the next urge.

I am not a Skinnerian. There is neither freedom nor dignity in crapping. When a man's got to go , a man's got to go. There is no going beyond !

(psst. me joking. in my home tests we rang the bell at the same time, very good conditioning. trained both the mutt and me at the same time. mrs very happy)

 

[Simon Anders]

No mixed message my friend, I'm just being funny

(oh, I knew that, silly. Bateson is a good read though.)

 

[Enmos]

(oh, I knew that, silly. Bateson is a good read though.)

Ok thanks, I'll write that down

 

[buckybeam]

Come on now, you're playing ducks and drakes with me.

hahaha. love it

 

[Myles]

(psst. me joking. in my home tests we rang the bell at the same time, very good conditioning. trained both the mutt and me at the same time. mrs very happy)

Bell have their place in the scheme of things. Just consider how they condition people to go to church !

 

[phlogistician]

many things we have come to believe are founded in the trust of someone else observations.

Indeed, Pontius Pilate met Jesus and sentenced him to death. If he, and the massed crowds preferred to set a thief free over Jesus, I think that says a lot about the alleged character, more so than the fan fiction written about him years later!

So yes, you have proven my point nicely.

 

[Simon Anders]

Indeed, Pontius Pilate met Jesus and sentenced him to death. If he, and the massed crowds preferred to set a thief free over Jesus, I think that says a lot about the alleged character, more so than the fan fiction written about him years later!

Yes, dictators (if mid-level) and crowds are reliable to make just decisions. I am glad we are moving from myth to reality.