Enmos
Valued Senior Member
In my opinion murderers and rapists shouldn't be roaming the streets. They still are though.. :shrug:
Atheism:believe in no God or disbelieve in God
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
In my opinion murderers and rapists shouldn't be roaming the streets. They still are though.. :shrug:
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
Enmos,
2 different meanings for the word 'should'.
2 different meanings for the word 'should'.
:shh:Not here, Sam! There are impressionable Christians present!
I too think the answer will be incredibly simple. And obvious.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Huh ? Explain ?
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
1) Should - as in indicator of likelihood or what common sense would indicate - It should rain soon (he says looking at the sky). We should find footprints there (said the detective to his partner) given the escape route.
2) Should - as in morally correct. You example. "He shouldn't hit his kid." etc.
That is what I've asking all along, some examples of characteristics or properties of which theists make their claims. Nothing in the universe so far suggests the existence of gods, so theists must describe what it is they consider proof.
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
It is only highly unlikely to those who would prefer to believe in gods than understand answers.
There "should" be a reason. The key word is "should" which would signify that this is something you want to believe as opposed to what has happened.
Your argument is as weak as it gets. All you've demonstrated is your "want" to believe.
True, however, I think it would be meant as "why"; not a moral or philosophical question, but rather, scientifically, WHY is there a universe? More importantly, how do you "measure" existence? Why am I me, you you, gravity gravity, etc
What set "how" it would all work? What ensures that it all works as such? The laws of nature, of course, do govern our universe BUT WHERE did they originate from and WHY? HOW?
This is a question which leads to a logical assumption that BEYOND what we can sense, effectively beyond our universe, there is an intelligent entity!
That is a pointless question in a pointless universe. The answer to your question is, "There is no reason why." The universe just exists for no reason whatsoever.
I understand that you have many questions about the universe, we all do. And, perhaps some of those questions may get answered in our lifetime, some will not. And, it would be the ultimate in selfishness and ignorance to proclaim gods are the reason how and why simply because you're not satisfied with not knowing those answers now.
That is the exact selfishness and ignorance I referred above. Thanks for making my point.
I am not asking for a philosophical question; I am asking, why (mostly as in, how) does the universe operate? Why does it operate as it does? And what ensures that it operates as it is set to do?
No, it would not. It would be a logical assumption.
That is simply one more logical assumption. There is nothing illogical about assuming there is a greater intelligence.
What makes you so sure there's an answer to this question? What makes you so sure there is a "why"? If god can be infinite and have no creator, surely you can fit the universe into the same schema?
That would be right if the universe was not subject to laws. You cannot be subject to laws and still be without cause or reason. At least, that is my belief.
The universe operates based on physical laws. There is no reason why. There is no assurance of its operation beyond the scope of physical laws.
Do you actually understand those laws?
It is at best a wild speculation. There is no logic in it at all.
Ok, let's have it your way. We make the assumption of a greater intelligence. Fine.
Now, where is the evidence?
Exactly, it is a belief. An unsubstantiated, uninformed, selfish wanting that has nothing to do with the universe or physical laws.
I think you are mistaking my question to be philosophical or religious; it is not, it's purely scientific.
What ensures that the laws operate as they do? Why are the laws there? And why are we subject to them?
Scientifically speaking, how do you measure existence and regulate it? How do I know that that is that? Do you see what I mean?
To make a rough analogy, think of a video game. The programmer may place something within the game world but it still does NOT have any coding; i.e, it can't interact with anything else, it effectively is as if not there (except graphically)
What "programs" our universe to work as it does?
Define existence. Define regulate existence. I have no idea what you're talking about. It doesn't sound scientific at all, but simply philoso-speak.
That we exist, that you are there, a concious entity, within a realm interacting with other entities.
But why are you allowed to? And by "regulation", I mean, what ensures that the laws of nature remain the laws of nature?
It seems to me like, logically, there MUST be some sort of higher intelligence (not necessarily the one you see in the books, or a heavne, or hell, or good, or evil), JUST a higher intelligence.
Hmm so its all a coincidence, according to you? There is no reason for anything?