I plead ignorance. There could be a reason, there could not be a reason. I think the only wrong position on this issue is the one the one that claims it knows for sure what it's talking about. Take your god for instance. It's so, and I don't mean this in a negative way, vague, mysterious, it's impossible to verify. But it's just as impossible to verify as the idea of everything all being a lucky coincidence, and I don't think one deserves credibility over the other. I'd rather criticize both than be a zealot for one.
Atheism:believe in no God or disbelieve in God
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
I plead ignorance. There could be a reason, there could not be a reason. I think the only wrong position on this issue is the one the one that claims it knows for sure what it's talking about. Take your god for instance. It's so, and I don't mean this in a negative way, vague, mysterious, it's impossible to verify. But it's just as impossible to verify as the idea of everything all being a lucky coincidence, and I don't think one deserves credibility over the other. I'd rather criticize both than be a zealot for one.
So your position is that there could be a reason or not, you just don't care? And this gives you what insight?
I believe that there is a reason and so I look forward to finding out whatever I can. :shrug:
If I believe there is no reason, it makes no sense for me to believe that anything should have any reason at all.
Based on all three above, I take the position most likely to lead somewhere (for me).
To be honest this whole thing smacks of argument from incredulity. "I can't explain it, therefore god did it".
There is nothing of value to be gained from going down such a route. There is seemingly, to the theist, a serious problem with requiring evidence for things before establishing conclusions. It might be worth discussing why.
Certainly there is nothing to be gained by going down any road! It is simply an outlook, one's explanation for the existence of the universe. People have different outlooks on the origins.
I think a man who looks at a star and sees only a light bulb is not the man who is going to build a telescope to look for more.
Where did you get the "don't care" part? I think the fact that I take the time to participate in this debate and share my views while exploring yours is proof enough that at the very least I care a tiny bit. What I care about it getting to the truth. What I'm doing in the process of that is criticizing things that claim to be the truth but are really no more credible than anything else. Why does this make you think I don't care?
I really don't understand this. Well, no. I do understand it, I just don't like it. Suppose you believed there was a reason, and somehow someway you gained irrefutable proof that no, there was no reason. It was all just a lucky coincidence. Does that really take away from what you did, what you felt, what you learned, how you grew, etc. in the process? Similarly, suppose you believed there was no reason for your life to exist. So what if there is no reason? Are you not still able to feel? Experience? Do those things suddenly lose all their value based upon this one thing that you can't even verify or properly identify?
Lack of what we consider to be meaning, reason, behind origin does not mean that we can't hold personal meaning and reason in our own lives.
Seems cognitively dissonant to me (sorry, but it does).
ie, I do not believe the universe has any reasoning behind it, however, I, with my massive forebrain have devised an existence that is entirely devoted to a meaningful life. But why would you look for any meaning to your life??? Its not necessary, according to your own stand.
Seems cognitively dissonant to me (sorry, but it does).
ie, I do not believe the universe has any reasoning behind it, however, I, with my massive forebrain have devised an existence that is entirely devoted to a meaningful life. But why would you look for any meaning to your life??? Its not necessary, according to your own stand.
You don't consider taking care of your family, perhaps raising one of your own, doing something that you love, helping others whether it be through charity, activism, whatever, you don't find any of those to be meaningful? Those things have meaning to me, thanks to how I was raised and who I grew up to be. It's a personal meaning, separate from the universal meaning you seem to be looking for.
I'm asking you, why do you need to find any meaning at all? Why should any of the above be meaningful to you? Its not necessary, is it?
It isn't an explanation, it's a stop gap measure for not having one. While that is fine - you can believe whatever unevidenced nonsense you so choose, that it is argument from incredulity will be pointed out to you.
There's the thing: "I can't think of anything else that this might be so it must be a lightbulb" is what is going on here and you're probably right in saying it would stop people building telescopes. "god did it" is a conclusion, "let's learn what we can about this" is not.
Regards,
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I don't need to find meaning. I just happened to have found it. There are people out there who think their life is totally meaningless and, to me, their life seems pretty miserable. Why are the above meaningful to me? I couldn't truly say anymore than I could truly explain why I like vanilla over chocolate. It's something that came to exist with my upbringing and experience. And is it necessary for what? Survival? No. But for happiness? I think so, yes.
It just seems odd to me that people who believe in a universe without reason, seek a meaningful life. :shrug:
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Explain to me how the universe can have a reason..
Also, believing in something and acting on it are two completely different things.
Is every single aspect of your life influenced or guided by this simple reason you seek, which as of yet you have no real knowledge of?
Yes, I believe everything happens for a reason. And I try to figure out what the reason can be. Its why I am in science and why I search for a cause in everything.:shrug:
This should be of no concern to theists whose only goal is the punishment or reward after death. The universe, as they know it is merely a stepping stone to another plane.
No, don't worry your pretty little head about it, Sam. Leave the universe to us godless creatures to partake. We'll observe and marvel at the results of evolution and huge geological time frames while you lot seek the ends to your magnanimous means.
I too think the answer will be incredibly simple. And obvious.
I don't know about 'obvious'. It might be obvious, but not necessarily. For example, general relativity is incredibly simple (with exceedingly complex implications!), but it's far from obvious.
but if you think the answer will be simple, then why do you believe in God? Surely an intelligence capable of deliberate, premeditated, selective interaction with the universe is anything but simple?
Why?