note: sung to the Spiderman tune
Are you there God? ...it's uh, Sciforums.
- Thread starter spidergoat
- Start date
brilliant
except its a picture of goat human...there is none there from a spider (the web looks more like a rope)
This is a serious thread about religion and the power of prayer, guys.
That's right you heathens.
Spidergoat, Enmos, and all others who are genuinely interested in someone else doing something so that you would begin to believe in God -
Watch out so that you don't become like those manic-depressed homeless people, dirty and stinky, muttering pseudophilosophical arguments about God to themselves. One moment praising God for His greatness, and the next moment cursing God for not existing.
This danger is real.
Yes, God might exist. Yes, you might come to know God. But God might also overwhelm you and rob you of sanity.
And God might not necessarily be the best option in the Universe.
Watch out so that you don't become like those manic-depressed homeless people, dirty and stinky, muttering pseudophilosophical arguments about God to themselves. One moment praising God for His greatness, and the next moment cursing God for not existing.
This danger is real.
Yes, God might exist. Yes, you might come to know God. But God might also overwhelm you and rob you of sanity.
And God might not necessarily be the best option in the Universe.
I know someone like that, but it's due to schizophrenia. Ideas won't rob me of sanity.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Never underestimate the power of ideas - for they can translate into intentions, and those into actions.
Also, beware that in theism, there is a lot of double binds. There is evidence that double binds can even lead to schizophrenia - link, or at least anxiety.
If this experiment works, then the idea that we should chose a religion based on it's psychological effects would be heresy. In other words, if it's possible for prayer to make me a believer, then the person who prayed for me is absolutely correct, and I have no choice but to believe in the truth of it. If it makes me crazy, then God wants me to be crazy.
All this along with the unspoken stipulation that believing in God is the absolutely best option in this Universe, and all others are inferior.
But are you sure that believing in God is the best option in this Universe?
Surely, God might be (about) the truth - but is it the best one?
By expressing willingness to believe in God, you are also implying that you are willing to forsake at least some, if not all other truths in this Universe, however beneficial for you (and others) they might be.
Not at all. I'm saying if VitalOne's prayer works and turns this atheist into a theist, then God must exist and there is no option except belief.
I apologize, I previously haven't made my point sharply enough. I'll put it this way -
The Buddha believed in God (in that he acknowledged the existence of gods), but the Buddha didn't think that believing in God is the best option in this Universe.
I'm with the Buddha on this. The danger with believing in God is that a person gives the belief in God absolute supremacy above all other beliefs they might have - which is, of course, exactly what various theisms want.
But giving the belief in God absolute supremacy above all other beliefs one might have, possibly is NOT the best option in this Universe.
In fact, giving the belief in God absolute supremacy above all other beliefs one might have, is likely to cause tremendous suffering.
I find it scary that you seem to be willing to go crazy if God wants you so.
The Buddha believed in God (in that he acknowledged the existence of gods), but the Buddha didn't think that believing in God is the best option in this Universe.
I'm with the Buddha on this. The danger with believing in God is that a person gives the belief in God absolute supremacy above all other beliefs they might have - which is, of course, exactly what various theisms want.
But giving the belief in God absolute supremacy above all other beliefs one might have, possibly is NOT the best option in this Universe.
In fact, giving the belief in God absolute supremacy above all other beliefs one might have, is likely to cause tremendous suffering.
I find it scary that you seem to be willing to go crazy if God wants you so.
That doesn't make any sense. You can't be convinced there is a God, and then abandon that belief because you feel it doesn't suit you. Even Satanists believe in God, although they reject the moral lessons attributed to a God.
If God exists and I believe it, and that belief drives me crazy, I cannot make myself not believe it out of practical considerations.
If God exists and I believe it, and that belief drives me crazy, I cannot make myself not believe it out of practical considerations.
I defy that.
Exactly. Believing in God does not necessarily mean agreeing with God or particular theistic claims.
That might be so. But it is my stance that "practical considerations" eventually take over.
(To be noted here that I find the Buddhist concept of rebirth the most sensible one among various concepts of identity and life forms. The "practical considerations" might take a few lifetimes to take over, though.)
PS.
Along with believing in God, you'd also have to believe many other things - to name just a few: that you are a finite entity, that you have identity, that you and God are two separate entities ...
These concepts are very problematic, to say the least, as the millenia of philosophical and religious ponderings show.
I'll leave you be now. But beware that being willing to believe in God can lead to great suffering.
Along with believing in God, you'd also have to believe many other things - to name just a few: that you are a finite entity, that you have identity, that you and God are two separate entities ...
These concepts are very problematic, to say the least, as the millenia of philosophical and religious ponderings show.
I'll leave you be now. But beware that being willing to believe in God can lead to great suffering.
OK, let me try and clarify your position. You can believe in God, but not accept what has historically been said about it?
My point is that you cannot believe in God and not believe in God at the same time.
My point is that you cannot believe in God and not believe in God at the same time.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Greenberg, you are taking this way too seriously.
Spidergoat and I are both atheists for a very good reason and Vitalone claims he can convert us by using prayer.
We are just saying that he can take his best shot at it. And we, well I at least have little doubt that he is going to fail.
On the other hand, if I wake up one morning believing in God then that would show that God really exists (at least to me). Vitalone's prayers will then have worked.