Are YOU Destined To Burn For Eternity?

[BlueMoose]

To (Q)

Well, example, I baptized to be Christian but in reality I´m not because I cant.
Jesus hasnt been spoken to me least that I know. Can one be Christian without it ?
The horrible history of Christianity rejects me out from it.
But even if one can be Christian without that experience, what is the difference to pagan who act like good Christian is supposed to act and Christian? I can adopt all the things from bible that cherishes life, you know the things that we all can agree in common sense, leaving all the rituals and dogmas aside now. some phrases here and there.
From eastern religions I adopt the things that might evaluate your thinking process, those religions doesnt give you any easy answers unlike western religions which offers you all the answers on a silver plate. From "pagan" religions I adopt their respect for nature and animals, and so on. Its not that I try to explain everybody nature of universe and God, its how I supposed to act towards the world and myself and be peace with myself what I´m looking for. Actions speak louder than thousands of words.
But really, I dont even know why I´m telling you all this, maybe because I really didnt
make out what were you trying to achieve with your comments ?

 

[Enmos]

It's a spurious justification for why other prayers weren't "answered", and a "rationale" for events that did happen.

I guess he backed out :shrug:

 

[Oli]

He has habit of doing that when faced with logic and facts.

 

[lightgigantic]

I do believe that, but that doesn't mean i cant dislike you for who you are or at least for how you act. I'm mean what kind of answer was that :bugeye::

I can easily turn that around LG, but I'm getting tired of these games. I'm not really that interested in it anyway. I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it.
pipe down with those beliefs of yours – you are starting to bother me with them

it was meant to illustrate a flawed principle (often it turns up in dogmatic liberalism)

People who say "Anything you say is ok as long as it doesn't bother people" contradict themselves the moment they refuse to be silent

Do have anything else to say or do you want to change your opinion?

 

[lightgigantic]

That's not what I said. What limitations are you referring?

you can't bandage empirical inquiry for the sake of making factual claims

ie - "Well we can't establish by the proper empirical standard the nature of life 10 billion years ago but we can make a few guesses"

So what?

so they're different

 

[Enmos]

it was meant to illustrate a flawed principle (often it turns up in dogmatic liberalism)

People who say "Anything you say is ok as long as it doesn't bother people" contradict themselves the moment they refuse to be silent

Do have anything else to say or do you want to change your opinion?

Thats horse shit.
How does that relate to you than ?

 

[lightgigantic]

Thats horse shit.
How does that relate to you than ?

look its quite simple - if its your belief that opinions are okay as long as one doesn't bother others with them, its not clear why you are exempt from such considerations

 

[Enmos]

look its quite simple - if its your belief that opinions are okay as long as one doesn't bother others with them, its not clear why you are exempt from such considerations

So I am bothering you ? Jeez, I thought this was a discussion forum :shrug:
I meant "bother" like Jehovah's Witnesses do.
You can't bother anyone on here, it's just a forum.

 

[lightgigantic]

So I am bothering you ? Jeez, I thought this was a discussion forum :shrug:
I meant "bother" like Jehovah's Witnesses do.
You can't bother anyone on here, it's just a forum.

so in other words your real belief is more like "Its okay to have opinions as long as you don't perceive that you are bothering the person you are talking to"

That probably puts most jehovah witnesses in the all clear .....

got anything else to add?

 

[Enmos]

so in other words your real belief is more like "Its okay to have opinions as long as you don't perceive that you are bothering the person you are talking to"

That probably puts most jehovah witnesses in the all clear .....

got anything else to add?

It's not really a belief as such.
But what is at question here actually ?
I really don't give a shit if you believe this or that, it's your business.
But since this is a discussion forum and discussion are going on about religion, I can express my viewpoints right ? Or not ?
What is it, you don't believe me, is that it ? You don't believe that I don't care if you are religious or not ?
I'm not bothered by people stating what they believe in. But if you, for example, start spamming me with messages that say I must adopt your religion I will become bothered (It's just an example).

 

[lightgigantic]

It's not really a belief as such.

then what is it?

But what is at question here actually ?

your comments and trying to test their soundness

I really don't give a shit if you believe this or that, it's your business.

so you want to forgo your earlier foray into cerebral liberalism and adopt this as your new standard?

But since this is a discussion forum and discussion are going on about religion, I can express my viewpoints right ? Or not ?

well that's my point precisely

to come here and say things like

"I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it."

begs the question what the hell you are doing here

What is it, you don't believe me, is that it ? You don't believe that I don't care if you are religious or not ?

I don't doubt it
I start to smell a rat however the moment you try to dress your opinions up as more magnanimous than what they actually are

I'm not bothered by people stating what they believe in. But if you, for example, start spamming me with messages that say I must adopt your religion I will become bothered (It's just an example).

and being spammed to the effect of "If you believe in god you are less intelligent" (as an example) is somehow different?

 

[Adstar]

They were rejected by an unforgiving and angry father for merely eating the wrong thing just one time. They actually used the brain that God gave them to make an independent decision. God created them with the absolute certainty that this would happen. It is how He designed them to be.

Most good fathers know that this is the process by which their children will grow and learn and improve. You warn them about eating a rotten apple, they do it anyway, they get a stomach ache, and low and behold they decide not to do it ever again. And guess what; they even learn to trust you more now than they ever could have if they never disobeyed you. They see that you were right all along. How hard is this stuff for God to understand? In our middle school, every year, the principle even tells the parents that he WANTS the children to make mistakes now, in middle school, because they will learn from their mistakes now while the costs are low. Is he being unjust according to Biblical standards? Should he not kick all of them out of school for the slightest infraction of any one of them? Would that not be true Biblical justice? Or should he instead wait thousands of years and then kill himself to pay himself for their infraction. What kind of justice would that be?

They dared to eat a piece of fruit that was placed in the Garden, that God had given them, to tempt them. Your child is hungry, just the way you designed him to be, you place a piece of chocolate in front of him to tempt him, you tell him not to eat it and you walk away. Of course, like any really good and loving father, you have put poison in the chocolate that will kill him if he eats it. Serves the little kid right, if he eats it, right? This is justice after all according to the Bible. Now it all makes sense to me. No, actually it really does not!!!

If God made man good then part of that goodness had to have been the ability or potential to think and reason and make decisions that were in opposition to Him.

Please tell me what would have been so catastrophic if God would have just forgiven His own children on the spot. That would have saved the entire human race an eternity of assorted earthly and hellish tortures. Is forgiveness really that hard for God? Why is God not capable of doing what even simple minded men like me can do? I forgive my children all of the time whether or not they ask me to. What is wrong with that? How does that make me an unjust father?

Adstar, what do you suppose will happen if you ever make just one little mistake in thought or in action in heaven. According to this man made tale, He cannot bear imperfection in His presence, right? Out you go! Sorry! Why would it not be the Garden of Eden all over again for you?



The Bible portrays Him as such. And I disagree with that portrayal of Him. It is written and organized by imperfect men and that is why it is imperfect.



It remains, in my opinion only, that you are making "Your Words" and "Your Judgments" equal to "His Words" and "His Judgments".

Take Care!

So be it. You have made your judgement.

There is no point in simply repeating the same things over and over again. I have walked that extra mile with you. To walk further is vanity.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I have been reading the last part of the exchange between Enmos and lightgigantic and i cannot go without commenting on the total hypocrisy of Enmos.

Here we have Enmos telling Lightgigantic to shut up and cease giving his opinions on this forum because it bothers him/her.

I can easily turn that around LG, but I'm getting tired of these games. I'm not really that interested in it anyway. I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it .pipe down with those beliefs of yours – you are starting to bother me with them

Then when lighgigantic turns around and uses the same point towards Enmos, Enmos changes tack and comes out with this.

So I am bothering you ? Jeez, I thought this was a discussion forum
I meant "bother" like Jehovah's Witnesses do.
You can't bother anyone on here, it's just a forum.

What a hypocrite. Tell someone to shut up because their beliefs are bothering you then when someone tells you to do the same you turn around and say this is a forum and therefore they are unjustified in asking to shut it because they cannot be bothering you.


Sometimes i wonder how some people can sleep in peace at night, But then again i guess that some have shouted down their consciences so much that they just don't hear it any more.

amazing.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

When your conscience talks you out of doing something wrong you are on the right path.
Remember, like in when we were child, I remember vividly one moment when I was about 5 years old and have an opportunity to take something from my friend, I didnt take because he was my friend and I felt the sting in my heart even because even to think something like that, when that moment was over I felt very good and light, like I was in heaven lol
Well, later on my life when you learned how corrupt and shit the world is from some parts, it wasnt hard to steal from local shop some candybars, my conscience had been corrupted trough all the unjustice of world, teenage rebellion, you know.

The evil that happens in this world does not justify anyone in taking part in it.

Although many people seek to justify their desire to do evil because everyone else is doing it.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[BlueMoose]

The evil that happens in this world does not justify anyone in taking part in it.

Although many people seek to justify their desire to do evil because everyone else is doing it.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

-yes, I do agree, it was back then when I was naive and unexperienced
I just want to express how values can corrupt over time.

 

[Enmos]

I have been reading the last part of the exchange between Enmos and lightgigantic and i cannot go without commenting on the total hypocrisy of Enmos.

Here we have Enmos telling Lightgigantic to shut up and cease giving his opinions on this forum because it bothers him/her.





Then when lighgigantic turns around and uses the same point towards Enmos, Enmos changes tack and comes out with this.



What a hypocrite. Tell someone to shut up because their beliefs are bothering you then when someone tells you to do the same you turn around and say this is a forum and therefore they are unjustified in asking to shut it because they cannot be bothering you.


Sometimes i wonder how some people can sleep in peace at night, But then again i guess that some have shouted down their consciences so much that they just don't hear it any more.

amazing.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

No idiot ! LG said "shut up" to me. Get your facts straight. The bold part is what I quoted from LG.
Unbelievable.

 

[Enmos]

then what is it?

Is it of any importance to the discussion ?

your comments and trying to test their soundness

Which comments ? All my comments ?

so you want to forgo your earlier foray into cerebral liberalism and adopt this as your new standard?

Is it any different than what I've said before ?

well that's my point precisely

to come here and say things like

"I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it."

begs the question what the hell you are doing here

Well that was not intended, I meant it precisely as I wrote it. :shrug:

I don't doubt it
I start to smell a rat however the moment you try to dress your opinions up as more magnanimous than what they actually are

Maybe you are a bit paranoid ?

and being spammed to the effect of "If you believe in god you are less intelligent" (as an example) is somehow different?

Did ever say anything remotely like that, i don't think so pal. Have I ever spammed you to try to 'convert' you to atheism ? No.
I have never even thought about what I am before I came to sciforums.

 

[lightgigantic]

“ Emnos

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
then what is it? ”
Is it of any importance to the discussion ?

if you posting ..... “It's not really a belief as such.” has any importance or value,” ...... I guess so ...
“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
your comments and trying to test their soundness ”
Which comments ? All my comments ?

just your most recent ones on this thread
“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
so you want to forgo your earlier foray into cerebral liberalism and adopt this as your new standard? ”
Is it any different than what I've said before ?

Hmmmmm
the most obvious difference between these statements of yours

“ But since this is a discussion forum and discussion are going on about religion, I can express my viewpoints right ? Or not ? ”


"I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it."

is that one says its okay to speak your viewpoint and the other says that it is not okay to speak your view point if others find it “bothering”



“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
well that's my point precisely

to come here and say things like

"I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it."

begs the question what the hell you are doing here ”
Well that was not intended, I meant it precisely as I wrote it.

and now its not so precise?

“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
and being spammed to the effect of "If you believe in god you are less intelligent" (as an example) is somehow different? ”
Did ever say anything remotely like that, i don't think so pal.

hey, relax – its just an “example” much like the one you suggested

Have I ever spammed you to try to 'convert' you to atheism ? No.
I have never even thought about what I am before I came to sciforums.

you just came along and started creating threads and posts attacking theistic claims from the spontaneous goodness of your heart or something?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

So be it. You have made your judgement.

There is no point in simply repeating the same things over and over again. I have walked that extra mile with you. To walk further is vanity.

I understand. I do appreciate very much our little talks, however.

Thanks for your time!

 

[Enmos]

LG:

if you posting ..... “It's not really a belief as such.” has any importance or value,” ...... I guess so ...
You started calling it a belief, I just denied it. No relevance to the discussion as far as I'm concerned.

just your most recent ones on this thread
Fair.

Hmmmmm
the most obvious difference between these statements of yours

“ But since this is a discussion forum and discussion are going on about religion, I can express my viewpoints right ? Or not ? ”

"I have no problem with you believing what you believe. I think everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants as long as they don't bother others with it."

is that one says its okay to speak your viewpoint and the other says that it is not okay to speak your view point if others find it “bothering”
I already explained what I meant with "bothering". I meant the more more serious form of "bothering", maybe I should have used the term 'harass'.
As far as I'm concerned those two statements mean the same, it was at least meant to mean the same.

and now its not so precise?
See above point.

hey, relax – its just an “example” much like the one you suggested
Fair.

you just came along and started creating threads and posts attacking theistic claims from the spontaneous goodness of your heart or something?
All the threads I started in the religion subforum were intended to be respectful and inquisitive. I can't help that theists and non-theists take the opportunity to war each other in them.
To the best of my knowledge I have never attacked theistic claims, I was always inquisitive. Of course exchange of ideas have taken place as is natural in any discussion.
I really don't know why you decided to 'go after me'. There are many people on here that more or less hateful towards religion and I am not one of them.