That's why they are called NEAR death experiences. A state closest to actual death.
I suppose we find out when we really die..or we just simply vanish into non-existence.
Are YOU Destined To Burn For Eternity?
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That's why they are called NEAR death experiences. A state closest to actual death.
I suppose we find out when we really die..or we just simply vanish into non-existence.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
It is very easy to explain with biological processes the many examples, most likely from religious people, you've provided; hallucinations, brought on in these cases by trauma.
And they are your views to be sure.
But, I would much rather understand what's going on with the brain then surrender to religious based notions, as they tend to rely on magic and mysticism to prop them up.
Let me make it clear that when i respond to a post in this forum it is a response from me to that letter and is not as a part of a group effort with anyone else here. I respond in respect to my conscience to God. Photizo is responsible for his/her response. I love Photizo and i love all men but i do not "respect Photizo as i do not respect any other human being on this plant. I only respect The God of Abraham. Photizo is a believer in the tradition of Justifiable war and as such I do not regard Photizo as a brother in Jesus but as a follower of the traditions of man. You make the mistake of interpreting agreement with love and respect. Of you think someone loves you because they agree with you SetiAlpha6 or that someone hates you because they disagree with you, you are greatly mistaken. Love is independent of agreement.
Simple. Both me and Photizo cannot both be guided by the Holy Spirit if we disagree on a basic foundation of the will of God as expressed through the Messiah Jesus.
It is up to those who claim to believe Jesus to decide whom is and whom is not guided by the Holy Spirit. But this is of no real relevance to an anti-christ like you SetiAlpha, you do not believe Jesus so your question in relation to yourself is a complete waste of time. And as for my "case" I am not saved or condemned by the judgement of human beings. I am saved through the Messiah Jesus no matter if people accept Jesus or reject Jesus after discussing Him with me.
Garbage Talk.
I have said it before and i will say it again. Only God condemns one to Hell. If i believe that someone is in danger of Hell Fire i will tell them and i think your in danger of hell fire SetiAlpha. Now does that indicate that i hate or Love you? No that indicates Nothing other than my belief. It is you that falsely inject hatred into the warning. If a man looks upon his neighbours house and he see's the roof starting to burn and he shouts out to the people in the house "Your House is on Fire" Do the people in the house take that to mean their neighbour is full of hatred towards them?????
"I can still feel the love!" Can you? Really? I doubt you have ever been able to discern real love to feel it.
The confusion rests with you.
You, who have dealt most deceitfully with scriptures time and time again even after having the error of your thinking clearly revealed to you have the hide to level this at me. You forgive me do you?? I do not need your forgiveness on this count. It is you that need to seek forgiveness.
Paul was right and John agreed with Paul John talked about the Commandments a lot and how we must do them. But people who do not have the Holy Spirit do not know what John was referring to when he was talking about the commandments. Lets read and understand what John was talking about. Lets look at the same chapter that you have so deceptively used to condemn, and lets see what John said that you have been blinded too.
1 John 3
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know[d] that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
So there you have it from John himself in the very same chapter that you used to seek to undermine the Love of the Truth. Your feeble attempt once again falls to the ground anti-christ. Repent from your evil will before you die for your own sake, God is real and the Messiah, The Word of God is His will and the Eternal Lake of Fire is real.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
It makes perfect sense, but rather than seek to understand, you dismiss it by purposely erecting barriers of falsehood, illogical nonsense, and labels (pathetically weak defenses)...all in order to wall yourself off from God's Truth...amazing...consequently, you guarantee you will never understand His Word/Truth.
What has been provided you just in this thread alone will one day come back to haunt you. You (and SetiAlpha) have been given much...much more than many others here (For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required;...from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.)...yet your responses have been what they've been...and they're all recorded, not just here, but in the Mind of God. As I mentioned to SetiAlpha, you build a case against yourself where pleading the fifth will not be an option: For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
I understand! Thank you for the sources you provided. I will take a look.
I appreciate it!
O.K., I reluctantly withdraw my congratulations. Now I am convinced that there must be gang members out there that regard each other more highly than you guys. That is very sad indeed but probably the reality here! I would rather be wrong than right about this, so help me out here if you can.
Now, if I understand you correctly, you are telling me that even Photizo is not your Christian brother?
Are you actually trying to tell me that it is possible that Photizo could even now believe in the sacrifice of Christ, and has likely asked the Holy Spirit to come into his heart and guide him, and has asked to be forgiven for his sins, and is still not a Christian, only because he does not correctly understand the “tradition of Justifiable war”, as you put it? Because if you are really saying this then, again, Paul’s gospel is clearly false. If Photizo is not your “brother in Jesus”, just as you say, then he is your enemy for he must be a child of Satan. You have been given only two options here. Is that what you really think?
You simply cannot be as self-righteous and as arrogant as you appear to be here and still be a Christian yourself. But I am not judging you!
I made this “mistake” because the God of Abraham allegedly thinks exactly that very thing. And He is supposed to be a model for us. According to Him, or at least the Biblical account of Him, love is very dependent on agreement. That is why he hates and disrespects all those that disagree with him. He will even execute the children of a person who disagrees with Him just to get back at him. Surely you have noticed this attribute in your readings. Personally, I agree with your view on this, but I do not see how you can believe this and remain a Christian. Again, I am not judging you, of course. You just blew some fuses in my brain. Admittedly that is not really all that hard to do, but still!
But he also claims to believe Jesus! So on what basis, other than extreme self-righteousness and extreme arrogance can anyone make these kinds of judgements of another?
And Photizo and I feel the same way about you. At least I do, and I hope he does. I cannot really speak for him, of course, especially since you just kicked him out of the family of God and must then apparently believe that he deserves to be tortured for all eternity. Please look at yourself in the mirror sometime.
Yes I do forgive you! And I wish the very best for you as well. Since when is that a crime? This used to be a good thing. What is wrong with this picture?
I asked you to decide for yourself, I never condemned either of you.
Yes, yes, this passage makes my point again very well! And thank you for the kind warning, Adstar.
Why is it that I, your friendly neighborhood “Anti-Christ”, am asking you to consider that you should stop sinning and you two are looking for any scripture you can find to justify yourselves in your sin so that you may go on sinning as you wish? Just wondering?
Thanks!
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davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Adstar,
It seems pretty clear to me that at least Photizo is a Christian so why condemn him/her(or generate a threat for hellfire)?
As far as I can see he/she most definitely adheres to this part of scripture:
John 3:15
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Could you explain the reason.
Cheers
It seems pretty clear to me that at least Photizo is a Christian so why condemn him/her(or generate a threat for hellfire)?
As far as I can see he/she most definitely adheres to this part of scripture:
John 3:15
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Could you explain the reason.
Cheers
That’s right. I do not believe that Photizo is my brother in Jesus. And i guess there are a lot of gang members who respect each other more than i respect men. Once again I love other men But i do not respect any of them. Love and respect are two different things.
I do not know who is guiding Photizo. Photizo might be being guided by his local minister or church tradition. It matters not a jot to me who is guiding Photizo if Photizo does not believe Jesus but believes the man who created the doctrine of justifiable war (a catholic) then no matter what he proclaims he is not a follower of Jesus but believes a doctrine of man that is in rebellion against the Words of Jesus.
Once again you inject emotions and attitudes into my words without foundation. I believe what i believe and will state what i believe I do not need any of the attitudes and emotions you prescribe to me for me to give them.
But once again God Is Not a Man like you and me. He is perfect and His will is the template that divides darkness from light. Those who disagree with God are evil because His will is perfect. You cannot use the relationship between God and man as a comparison to the relationship between men.
So i have not problem with that fact that God's will is the template that measures men by man's agreement with or rebellion against it.
The very Words of the Messiah Jesus as recorded in the Bible.
Jesus said.
Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Paul confirmed it even more clearly.
2 Corinthians 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
And again.
Romans 12
9 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Revelation 13:
10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
I did not place anyone into the family of God nor have i kicked anyone out. I do not believe Photizo is in the family of God in the first place. I have no trouble standing in frount of the mirror for i have stood for the Words of Jesus and i have never compromised my faith in His Word for anyone. I am happy to stand alone if needs be, i have never been out to win any popularity contest or to win the admiration of men.
Your intention was to use the Word of God to cast doubt into my mind as to my salvational status with God because of the fact that i am a sinner. Fortunatly I know the Word of God and you who seek to undermine, do not.
You are putting forward an imposable proposition. I would love to stop sinning but i know that all men in the flesh are hopeless sinners. So your proposing the imposable. And i am not making excuses but revealing that those who have the right spirit towards sin will be forgiven their sins. While those who seek to justify sin as being good or ok will not be forgiven their sins.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Simple as stated above. Photizo along with most people who call themselves Christian do not actually believe Jesus. When Jesus says Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you and persecute you do you believe Him?
Or do you believe the catholic "saint" (spiritual harlot and twister of the scriptures) who came up with the doctrine of justifiable war?
What’s the point in declaring that one believes in Jesus when they do not believe Jesus? What is such a statement worth?
Luke 6
46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
Back to the beattitudes
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar, I understand what you are saying and I think perhaps why you are saying it. What I cannot understand, in the slightest, is why this very thing, or something very similar to the "doctrine of justifiable war" really is taught in the Bible, especially in the Old Testament and even to a degree in the Law itself. How can the same God teach His people to use slavery and genocide as a weapon and way of dealing with enemies in the Old Testament and then turn right around and declare that way to be wrong, in the verses you quoted below in the New Testament? This does not make any sense to me. Can you explain this?
Yes, I know what you mean here, and I tried to point this very thing out to Photizo as well. The problem is that the opposite of "love your enemies" really is justified in the Old Testament, over and over again, supposedly by the very same God. Those people were even taught to kill each other over little things like picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Paul was a murderer for a reason, and that reason is the teachings of the Old Testament.
My intention was to explain what to me are irreconcilable differences or contradictions in the Bible. Because that is what I see when I look at the Bible in many, many places. I used to believe in it all without question. But I would come across a problem here and a problem there and I would pretend that they did not exist or that there must be some(?) explanation for them. I deceived myself for years until I finally just could not take it anymore without giving up my own integrity.
An impossible position is exactly what I find in the Bible, on multiple levels. It is not what I wanted to find but it is what I found after lying to myself for many years. I found that there are both good and bad things taught in the Bible. And that a person grows more in character when they try to figure out which is which, than if they just buy into all of it without question like most people are taught to do.
Thanks!
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kerux
Registered Senior Member
Life?
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
and to the brethren outside:
1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
and because they were still in the world, having no opportunity yet to have received the gospel, then this was their life:
Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
The above verse WAS WHAT YOU MEAN, wasn't that?
By the way, for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Therefore you are correct as per quote from you:
"The possibility does exist that your god decided your fate long before you were born perhaps, or yesterday, or will do so tomorrow or the next day. "
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Anyway, nobody, for sure to those who are normally living here on earth, aims for sadness (none longed for sadness, even when they were alive). Scriptures, that is true are one thing, to those who were able to hear or read them, and of course biblically speaking, to the christian philippians once thus addressed:
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
and to the brethren outside:
1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
and because they were still in the world, having no opportunity yet to have received the gospel, then this was their life:
Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
The above verse WAS WHAT YOU MEAN, wasn't that?
By the way, for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Therefore you are correct as per quote from you:
"The possibility does exist that your god decided your fate long before you were born perhaps, or yesterday, or will do so tomorrow or the next day. "
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
I believe Him, but I also acknowledge that I'm not perfect so can only try my best, like all human beings.
Probably the most important passage for me to remember in the Bible is this:
Luke 6:37
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
As I can see it can and no doubt will lead to this:
Luke 6:41
41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
I'll just remove the plank out of my eye now
Thanks for providing some back up scriptural sources. It would then appear one can completely ignore any and all religions or be as pious as the pope, simply because no one is safe from gods predestining hand of fate.
I have not judged. I have not condemned. And Photizo has not offended me therefore i have no grievance towards him and He has no need to apologize to me.
As I can see it can and no doubt will lead to this:
Luke 6:41
41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
I'll just remove the plank out of my eye now
If i have a plank in my eye please reveal it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
God predestines from the knowledge he has about you from His foreknowledge.
That is to say God knew before you where born weather you would come to accept His will or not. So to say that one is locked into a certain eternal fate is false and also true at the same time.
Your eternal destination is determined by your free willed response to the Will of God.
But God already knows what your response would be, even before you where born.
So you both determine your fate and have your fate at the same time.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
kerux
Registered Senior Member
Ok lets use the most potent example of what we are talking about here. The Israelites attack and defeat of the tribes that lived in Canaan when they returned from slavery is Egypt.
Question. Where these people the enemies of the Israelites? Did the Israelites attack the tribes that lived in Canaan because they where their enemies?
Answer. No The Jews that came from Egypt had no axe to grind against the people of the region.
So. Did the Israelites attack an enemy? No they did not attack their enemy, They attacked people who had done evil in the eyes of God. The Israelis where just tools that God chose to use to bring His judgement upon the tribes of the area. If you look at the OT you will find that the Jews always failed when they decided to take independent action against a target of their own choice. But when they attacked someone after receiving the Order from God to attack the end result was very different.
Think of the Jews as a Judge appointed executioner. As long as the executioner has the court Order to carry out a sentence he is just a cog in the wheels of the Law. Now if an executioner decides to carry out a vigilante killing because he thinks it is right without proper Judicial backing he will also come under judgement from the same Judge.
He did not declare that way to be Wrong.
When God says, Do not execute someone, I no longer require you to be my executioner, I will carry out any future executions myself at the appointed time. Is He saying that executing someone is wrong?
No. He is saying that. Those that offend will still be executed but i am now changing the date of execution and who the executioner is. The destination is the same but I have added a bypass in the route to that destination.
And once again After God established His Will and then revealed the price of rebellion against His will. He then revealed the Way to forgiveness, step by step.
This is Good
This is Bad
This is the consequence of being Bad
This is the outcome of being Good
Everyone is Bad
No one is Good
This is the way to be forgiven for ones Badness.
When you are forgiven, I will come and make you all Good.
There are explanations for all of them. But the problem was lack of trust in God. Maybe you had faith in your parents and your pretending was an effort to show loyalty to them. Of course as we grow up faith in our parents quickly falls away when we realise they are just human beings, the more little kids treat their parents as gods when they are young the more they will look upon them as devils when they finally discover that their parents are human. It is like they want to compensate for their former overestimation by underestimating them in later years.
If ones faith is based on ones relationship with those who hold the faith, then ones faith is built on sand, not the ROCK.
One must have a personal relationship with God and come to Him by themselves.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
No, you just stated that he determined my fate before I was born, hence I had no say in the matter. I wasn't born yet!