Are YOU Destined To Burn For Eternity?
- Thread starter (Q)
- Start date
not in the least....but stay tuned...15 mins could save you 15% percent or more on car insurrance...
You're too kind.
One second is all it'll take for you to lose 100% for eternity.
Thank You!
Thus saith the Lord Photizo...
Direct your hand your and dictate my imperative
Breathe and let my step falter
I shall call you father, reverend, and most high
And you will take the first place in the synagoue...
And yet...Matthew 19:30
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
You're welcome.
very good.
Thank you davewhite04, that is very honest of you. Too many theists here are intellectually dishonest, but one certainly cannot say that of you with responses like that. Kudos!
You are quick to jump to conclusions, many which have shown to be wrong, including this one.
You are under the assumption that YOUR brand of religion is the correct one. One may earn their place in another religion's heaven; Islamic heaven, for example.
And of course, you are making that conclusion based on your own perceptions of your religion, which could be and is most likely to be different than other Christians.
That makes no sense, whatsoever. Bible-thumping, at the very least.
Spiritual vibrations? Unconditional love? Overall compassion? Is that supposed to be science?
Of course, I realize you doubt NDEs' and regard them as simply being "daydreams" of the dying brain. Fair enough..that's your belief.
From your response, it would appear your so-called "studies" of NDE's are as scientific as back-woods voodoo. But hey, that's YOUR belief.
Well, my "so-called studies" of NDEs' simply involve examining hundreds of cases of them and trying to see an overall pattern or commanality between them.
I am aware btw of all the experiments skeptics have performed in an attempt to dismiss NDEs' and I am not convinced they are just the chemical reactions within the dying human brain.
Although many features of the NDE can be explained by neurological or physiological processes, this doesn’t explain the message being sent.The neurological effects could just be the result effects of the NDE, rather than the cause itself.
Skeptics like Professor Susan Blackmore do not convince me.
There are many well documented cases where the NDEer while out of body were able to see specific details and hear conversations in other rooms and far away places that they couldn’t have known about beforehand, and yet upon returning to the body find that what they saw or heard was in fact verified to be accurate and true. This is a phenomena that skeptics and materialists still haven’t been able to explain away no matter how hard they try. Blackmore herself knows about these cases and even mentions them in her book, but she dismisses it simply by stating that she doesn’t believe them.
Anyways , in my last post I was not harshly critisizing your position. Just letting you know from what I believe, you can be an atheist and still enter heaven
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Well, my "so-called studies" of NDEs' simply involve examining hundreds of cases of them and trying to see an overall pattern or commanality between them.
I am aware btw of all the experiments skeptics have performed in an attempt to dismiss NDEs' and I am not convinced they are just the chemical reactions within the dying human brain.
Although many features of the NDE can be explained by neurological or physiological processes, this doesn’t explain the message being sent.The neurological effects could just be the result effects of the NDE, rather than the cause itself.
Skeptics like Professor Susan Blackmore do not convince me.
There are many well documented cases where the NDEer while out of body were able to see specific details and hear conversations in other rooms and far away places that they couldn’t have known about beforehand, and yet upon returning to the body find that what they saw or heard was in fact verified to be accurate and true. This is a phenomena that skeptics and materialists still haven’t been able to explain away no matter how hard they try. Blackmore herself knows about these cases and even mentions them in her book, but she dismisses it simply by stating that she doesn’t believe them.
Anyways , in my last post I was not critisizing your position. Just letting you know from what I believe, you can be an atheist and still enter heaven
Nova900, what are some good websites that you trust to give reliable and trustworthy information on NDEs. Books would be good as well. I would like to learn more and I would appreciate your help.
Thank You
Here is a few:
http://www.near-death.com/
http://www.geocities.com/wwu777us/Debunking_Skeptical_Arguments.htm
http://www.iands.org/
I try to see the argument from both sides and I am of course open to being wrong. The last thing I want is the rigid mindset of a fundamentalist.
I don't specifically trust each source as an entire authority but I like to see the common points between all these experiences from various sources.
As far as the Heaven, Hell and God issue I think NDEs' and Pychic phenomena
are as close as we can get to actually knowing as opposed to ancient texts that are taken,often, too literally.
Yes, the brain does work similarly for many people, therefore you will see commonality between them.
A belief held by you. Your statement already condemns the scientists studies as you claim they are attempting to "dismiss" NDE's - fallacious intellectual dishonesty on your part. Scientists are not trying to debunk the experience, so much so as searching for biological reasons that cause an NDE.
What message?
Perhaps, but you're putting the cart before the horse as can be demonstrated when similar patterns of NDE can be simulated by stimulation of the brain.
Nor do any scientific studies. You would much rather go on the hearsay of those who were actually near dead and in no position to be objective about their own experiences.
That would be the same if while you slept, you envisioned flying majestically through beautiful valleys and meadows only to crash land, when all the while you were merely sleepwalking and fell over a chair, as observed by someone in the same room.
Skeptics and materialists? You make your position very weak with those statements.
What about neurologists and biologists, you know, real scientists?
And yet, YOU are able to explain them?
Blackmore is attempting to understand, doing research, and doesn't make matter-of-fact statements like you do.
Anyways , in my last post I was not harshly critisizing your position. Just letting you know from what I believe, you can be an atheist and still enter heaven
Thanks.
And as I said, those who gave accounts were in no position to be objective about their experiences. The commonality they shared is due to their brain processes.
Yet, you reject scientific studies over these claims.
Q, I will admit I may show some bias in accusing some scientists of having themselves a bias in wanting to disprove NDEs' but without knowing the individual scientists personally it's hard to tell if they are indeed unbiased.
As far as the commanality being due to shared brain processes I find it hard to explain the "message(s)" being conveyed as being simply biological processes.
That mesage(s) being:
a) We are all part of God..our souls are all like little fragments of the greater whole( I suppose like the borg collective..in a sort of way..without the hostile b/s of course)
b) In this physical state of duality we forget that our true nature is part of God and the challenge is to realize it.
c) Gods main rule is to demonstrate unconditional love and to be selfless (in the way Jesus, Krishna and others demonstrated..to achieve enlightenment)
d) Life does exist on many,many worlds across our galaxy and across the universe itself.
e)No one religion is literally true and others false.They have spiritual truths within them but they are cloaked in the ignorance of mans ego and dogmatic b/s.
f) The majority of people who have these experiences become more spiritual in nature as opposed to sticking to the rhetoric of religious beliefs they may have held before.
g)There is no eternal hell, but rather a limited state separated from God.All people thou do eventually reach the higher levels, once they realize the errors of their ways.
h) There are various levels or realms within the afterlife ranging from the earthly plane thru to the "void" (hell) to the highest level (I suppose full reallignment with God and losing the sense of individuality that we have)
e) God created the universe so as to explore every aspect of Gods being thru the vast mutiplicity of the physical universe.
Those are the main themes I see (and other people) when reading hundreds of cases of NDEs'.
In any case I know we will only agree to disagree on this topic.
This thread is about Hell from a religous point of view and I only mention NDEs as many of these points I mentioned are "hinted" at in most major religions.
Example:"The Kingdom is within you"--from the NT.
"There are many rooms in my fathers house"--from the NT.( the various realms in the afterlife)
Well, I look at it this way. If I am wrong and simply "deluded" then nothing is lost (except eternal life) as it only inspired me to be a better person in this life.
I don't try and force my views on others.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Q, I will admit I may show some bias in accusing some scientists of having themselves a bias in wanting to disprove NDEs' but without knowing the individual scientists personally it's hard to tell if they are indeed unbiased.
As far as the commanality being due to shared brain processes I find it hard to explain the "message(s)" being conveyed as being simply biological processes.
That mesage(s) being:
a) We are all part of God..our souls are all like little fragments of the greater whole( I suppose like the borg collective..in a sort of way..without the hostile b/s of course)
b) In this physical state of duality we forget that our true nature is part of God and the challenge is to realize it.
c) Gods main rule is to demonstrate unconditional love and to be selfless (in the way Jesus, Krishna and others demonstrated..to achieve enlightenment)
d) Life does exist on many,many worlds across our galaxy and across the universe itself.
e)No one religion is literally true and others false.They have spiritual truths within them but they are cloaked in the ignorance of mans ego and dogmatic b/s.
f) The majority of people who have these experiences become more spiritual in nature as opposed to sticking to the rhetoric of religious beliefs they may have held before.
g)There is no eternal hell, but rather a limited state separated from God.All people thou do eventually reach the higher levels, once they realize the errors of their ways.
h) There are various levels or realms within the afterlife ranging from the earthly plane thru to the "void" (hell) to the highest level (I suppose full reallignment with God and losing the sense of individuality that we have)
e) God created the universe so as to explore every aspect of Gods being thru the vast mutiplicity of the physical universe.
Those are the main themes I see (and other people) when reading hundreds of cases of NDEs'.
In any case I know we will only agree to disagree on this topic.
This thread is about Hell from a religous point of view and I only mention NDEs as many of these points I mentioned are "hinted" at in most major religions.
Example:"The Kingdom is within you"--from the NT.
"There are many rooms in my fathers house"--from the NT.( the various realms in the afterlife)
Well, I look at it this way. If I am wrong and simply "deluded" then nothing is lost (except eternal life) as it only inspired me to be a better person in this life.
I don't try and force my views on others.
I find NDE's fascinating but how can this conclude this question if they didn't die?
Simple answer, they can't.