are atheists a product of Murphy's law?

[birch]

But as a side note, I think you indeed do not understand the average theist.

haha! excuse you, you are making assumptions but on the other hand, i know what i'm talking about here. i think i understand them quite well. not only was i raised in church and members of many churches but parents were ministers and heads of church. not only that but i was exposed to catholic, presbyterian, evangelical, baptist and methodist denominations. and you apologize for them and you also do not know that they can't differentiate or it's a case of won't or it's a case of they do when it suits them and they don't when it suits them. and i'm not a 'toots' or 'honey', K?

and you are fooling yourself which is inexcusable but your perogative. i already pointed out the glaring obvious example of the devil mentioned in the bible which they are well aware of (yes, they know it's there). you make poor excuses that are erroneous.

also, almost all sermons focus on benign or less offensive scriptures because they don't want to be reminded of the nasty stuff (they know it's there) while they defend their god entirely. that's purposeful any way you cut it.

i don't care about your lame and pathetic rationalizations you are making for their deceptive ways.

 

[Lori_7]

being intentionally obtuse is very annoying. you refuse to think and make others do the thinking for you.

your dog that you love will die one day and i know you don't want it too but you know you have to accept it. if you could, you would make sure he could be healthy, happy and live as long as you do (you can deny it but i won't buy it). that is an indication that our objectives and desires are not necessarily aligned to the universe. there is a reason but we don't know yet.

the fact i have "power" to knock over things on my desk is not significant in the context you are assuming. it does not mean it is indicative of the existence of god.

and what is the meaning of life?! that response made no sense whatsoever.

i have a serious question i want to ask you. why do you even bother to believe in a "christian" god or religion anyways? for the last few posts of yours has revealed that you recognize the laws of nature and evolution and that you don't care about 'morality' but right and wrong (laws of nature/universe). so why not just be a general theist?

so basically, you've broken everything down to how an atheist views the world/universe except you think there is some god/entity who is initially responsible for it all.

even i don't think that highly of this universe as you do. your views are more in line with most atheists than even my views.

if you care so much about the 'laws of nature' which you think your god is responsible for, then why do you focus so much on whether god is taken seriously by others or not since everyone is subject to these laws anyways?

does this make any sense or have all your posts been just more ruse or bs?

ok, first of all, i'm going to say this...you are irritating to have a discussion with because you are insulting, and you should really back off that. it's not helpful or correct, and it makes you look like an ass.

the problem with your argument and your attitude is that you can't seem to get over your own objectives. i'm addressing this topic in my "communion" thread.

i believe what i do about christ because of what god has taught me, and how god has taught me, through interaction and experience, and what that has resulted in for me.

my objective is the greater good, and if there exist other objectives that inhibit or contradict that, then i reject those. i am not looking to have an irrational opinion, but some people label my opinion as irrational, that the greater good can and will in fact be achieved. i think people do that because they don't want to do what it takes to achieve it, and it makes them afraid.

as a side note, often times when people are threatened, they behave like assholes.

 

[scifes]

It works?

 

[birch]

ok, first of all, i'm going to say this...you are irritating to have a discussion with because you are insulting, and you should really back off that. it's not helpful or correct, and it makes you look like an ass.

the problem with your argument and your attitude is that you can't seem to get over your own objectives. i'm addressing this topic in my "communion" thread.

i believe what i do about christ because of what god has taught me, and how god has taught me, through interaction and experience, and what that has resulted in for me.

my objective is the greater good, and if there exist other objectives that inhibit or contradict that, then i reject those. i am not looking to have an irrational opinion, but some people label my opinion as irrational, that the greater good can and will in fact be achieved. i think people do that because they don't want to do what it takes to achieve it, and it makes them afraid.

as a side note, often times when people are threatened, they behave like assholes.

don't make me laugh. i can leave you with this since you think that a belief in god is somehow being more 'far-reaching' or less small-minded etc than atheists.

as if your belief in some god/entity for the creation of everything sitting on it's proverbial throne is some profound and awesome answer to everything. that's what's small-minded, provincial. no one needs for you to broadly remind others that the universe is a large place. also, your enamoration with the god concept is a personal objective and selfish, you get something out of it either in your imagination, sense of hope or identity. but you ignorantly assume that a belief in god means being selfless and others are automatically being selfish (their own objectives) and not considering the 'bigger' picture. one would have to have their head up their ass to think that the god they believe in is the sole creator and of everything and is perfect and consider this not a myopic, self-centered position or assumption.

at least atheists have the integrity to consider beyond your limited scope. if there exists a god, it is inconceivable to you that there would be other gods or creators or to consider where that god was created from or how it materialized. if a god exists, where did it come from? or the so-called gods(concept) you think of may not even be gods. you also assume it's just something totally worthy as well.

it's much easier for you to have a pat answer such as 'god is responsible for everything and is all powerful, that's that'.

and then you have the nerve to turn around and tell me that the universe is large as if that means belief in god is some loftier and wider expanse of vision or consideration.

i'm "threatened" by the "multitude" of your kind which creates a stronghold. it's like insanity accepted.

 

[GeoffP]

This thread has gone on long enough. Neither group is a product of Murphy's law. Ridiculous, through and through.

 

[spidergoat]

i think there is an intelligence behind the way everything works in the universe and why....

So, in other words, everything is an act of God? Why is he in Africa giving AIDS to babies, and is this the same God you admire?

 

[Lori_7]

So, in other words, everything is an act of God? Why is he in Africa giving AIDS to babies, and is this the same God you admire?

are you honestly trying to tell me that you think our choices and behaviors, given law, don't amount to anything? to suffering?!?! are you kidding me?

 

[spidergoat]

Hey, he invented AIDS, not us.

 

[GeoffP]

Mind you, he didn't tell people to have sex with monkeys to transfer it.

If everyone had followed his instructions to the letter, there would have been very little spread, too.

 

[Pinwheel]

But the Pope said not to wear a condom.

 

[NMSquirrel]

the pope needs to have sex with a monkey...

um..if there is no freedom of choices, would you NOT be able to believe in god..
(predeterminism doesn't exist)
we need non-believers...they just reinforce our beliefs..

 

[birch]

um..if there is no freedom of choices, would you NOT be able to believe in god..
(predeterminism doesn't exist)
we need non-believers...they just reinforce our beliefs..

this is very sound. so the freedom to believe is more important than what actually exists? okay. so i believe in the existence of the sun even more fervently if there are naysayers?

lol

 

[NMSquirrel]

this is very sound. so the freedom to believe is more important than what actually exists? okay. so i believe in the existence of the sun even more fervently if there are naysayers?

lol

the sun does not exist..
check back with me in the morning and ill see if it exists then.....

 

[Lori_7]

Hey, he invented AIDS, not us.

stop talking shit; it's all or nothing.

 

[GeoffP]

But the Pope said not to wear a condom.

Fairly sure that the "no sex out of wedlock" theologically trumps "don't wear a condom". Exodus and Leviticus also sort of establish a stance against monkey sex also.

 

[scifes]

But the Pope said not to wear a condom.

don't remember the last time i "exploded" laughing

 

[scifes]

btw G, i'm really interested in your answer to my last question to you.

 

[scifes]

Why Scifes? Why? Why you bother the atheists like this?

i don't mean to "bother" anyone, it's just that either most users here are going to hell or the majority of the world seriously believes in an invisible santa clause, i think the matter is serious.

But seriously Scifes why does your god keep himself (or whatever) so hidden? Why not just show up and proclaim himself as such like Jim Jones and cease this endless speculation?

that's EXACTLY the point of this thread!
see, if god DID show up and proclaim himself, and it was possible for people to still disbelieve, they would disbelieve.
more to the point, god DID show up, DID procalim himself, but since murphy's law applies, we have atheists.

want PROOF?
no external studies, no newspaper articles, but INSIDE proof?
of how this place REEKS with.. with.. hopelessness?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=84018

 

[birch]

see, if god DID show up and proclaim himself, and it was possible for people to still disbelieve, they would disbelieve.
more to the point, god DID show up, DID procalim himself, but since murphy's law applies, we have atheists.

oh, which god was that?

so if someone proclaims they are god, then it must be. i don't think so.

get it straight. christianity is just one of many religions or philosophy. it is a monotheistic religion with a figurehead called jesus christ.

what's important is for believers, not whether everyone believes. just like not everyone joins a knitting club or a star trek convention devotee.

i think it's very deceptive and selfish for christians to put themselves in a position that they represent the concept of god entirely or make it an atheist vs theism issue when the real motive is to get others to acknowledge their "version" of god/religion as being the only truth.

you don't see anyone else doing this except for christians and sometimes muslims.

 

[GeoffP]

btw G, i'm really interested in your answer to my last question to you.

This being? I'm certain it will be another masterfully written red herring.

see, if god DID show up and proclaim himself, and it was possible for people to still disbelieve, they would disbelieve.

Unlikely.

more to the point, god DID show up, DID procalim himself, but since murphy's law applies, we have atheists.

Absurd.

want PROOF?
no external studies, no newspaper articles, but INSIDE proof?
of how this place REEKS with.. with.. hopelessness?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=84018

Well, most people voted that "no", they would not follow Islam if the Islamic God showed up and proclaimed himself. But you have to understand: that's because Islamic law is shit, scifes, and because of the mindless way in which supporters like you follow it. I would say "all Islam" was shit, but I know there are real reformers out there as distinct from you as you are from an invertebrate.

(Just for reference: I'd be in the "no" category too, for the obvious array of reasons.)