are atheists a product of Murphy's law?

[birch]

Why Scifes? Why? Why you bother the atheists like this?

You're god has a tricky sense of humor eh? A tricky dicky trickster eh? *slams hand on table* Nothing but tricks I say!

if theists are representative of god, it's one lazy mofo. belief in god doesn't create results, actual work does.

what the fuk does prayer do vs medicine? does belief in god build one's house or understanding physics? does belief in god feed one's body and does manna fall from heaven?

these people who just repeat the god mantra and refuse to think are worthless and lazy.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

if theists are representative of god, it's one lazy mofo. belief in god doesn't create results, actual work does.

what the fuk does prayer do vs medicine? does belief in god build one's house or understanding physics? does belief in god feed one's body and does manna fall from heaven?

these people who just repeat the god mantra and refuse to think are worthless and lazy.

Well Birch honey I don't know about all of that. Personally I'm an atheist but I tell ya what, when I have to consider the finances it currently takes to build a house on my property I close my eyes and say 'please god...'

Its kind of like making a plan and then crossing your fingers and hoping it will all work out.

Personally I would like to believe it god. I really would. Its just damn reason that gets in my way

 

[birch]

Personally I would like to believe it god. I really would. Its just damn reason that gets in my way

that god listens to people's prayers?

what happened to laws of nature/universe being good enough? isn't that what god created? if you can't afford it, then it must be god's will.

therefore, praying to god is akin to saying it fuked up.

jesus christ, these theists are retards.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

that god listens to people's prayers?

what happened to laws of nature/universe being good enough? isn't that what god created? if you can't afford it, then it must be god's will.

therefore, praying to god is akin to saying it fuked up.

jesus christ, these theists are retards.

No that god is at all. Prayer isn't anything but a form of personal comfort for those who engage in it. Like a meditation that lowers ones heart rate or doing sun salutations to feel more energetic in the morning. Praying to god is no more of a sign of god than crossing ones fingers.

 

[birch]

it is just how hypocritical and dishonest theists but especially religionists are that is tolerated that bothers me.

they want to rave about how great their god is and how great creation is but then turn around and pray to god to save their dying child or give them more money etc.

laws of nature is cause and effect. your dying child is a result of it just like you having less money than you want.

people who refuse to think at all are nothing but societal parasites.

 

[M00se1989]

Are religious people a product of Murphys law?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

it is just how hypocritical and dishonest theists but especially religionists are that is tolerated that bothers me.

they want to rave about how great their god is and how great creation is but then turn around and pray to god to save their dying child or give them more money etc.

laws of nature is cause and effect. your dying child is a result of it just like you having less money than you want.

people who refuse to think at all are nothing but societal parasites.

Yes I agree that laws of nature are cause and effect but that isn't what accounts for the religious and prayer. Its a matter of faith right? A belief. Evidence is not necessary in order for one to believe. You have new age guru's claiming wishful thinking in the mantra 'if you can see it it will materialize' and things like that. I do believe that there is a certain truth that thoughts lead to certain behaviour patters, so if you think positively and rationally you are more likely to have desired outcomes etc.

I don't agree that the religious refuse to think. Actually I think it takes a great deal of thought to substantiate to oneself a constant proof of something where there is actually nothing. I mean its kind of like how much alcohol do you have to drink before you get to see pink elephants:shrug:

Or think of it this way. Most atheists do not take too much time out of their lives trying to convince or challenge the religious that they hold false beliefs or useful myths or what have you. But there is a disturbing tendency of the religious to constantly try and convince and convert others to their way of thinking and living. In this sense its almost as if they need large numbers around them in order to validate their beliefs. An atheist needs none.

 

[birch]

Yes I agree that laws of nature are cause and effect but that isn't what accounts for the religious and prayer. Its a matter of faith right? A belief. Evidence is not necessary in order for one to believe. You have new age guru's claiming wishful thinking in the mantra 'if you can see it it will materialize' and things like that. I do believe that there is a certain truth that thoughts lead to certain behaviour patters, so if you think positively and rationally you are more likely to have desired outcomes etc.

I don't agree that the religious refuse to think. Actually I think it takes a great deal of thought to substantiate to oneself a constant proof of something where there is actually nothing. I mean its kind of like how much alcohol do you have to drink before you get to see pink elephants:shrug:

uh, no. religionists continually 'defend' creation as it is, then turn around and pray for changes. lol

even i don't defend creation as it is as i think a lot of it is shitty.

they are the biggest hypocrites. it's like defending a murderer and saying it's great, and then turn around ask him/her to not kill them. frontdoor/backdoor shit.

In this sense its almost as if they need large numbers around them in order to validate their beliefs.

because deep down they know they are full of it.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

uh, no. religionists continually 'defend' creation as it is, then turn around and pray for changes. lol

even i don't defend creation as it is as i think a lot of it is shitty.

they are the biggest hypocrites. it's like defending a murderer and saying it's great, and then turn around ask him/her to not kill them.

But they do not see this as being hypocritical. They see it as honing in to the god power or what have you. Mainlining ones way into god's presence so it will 'see' and 'hear' and 'strengthen' you and offer you a desired outcome. Like self-hypnosis. Its a tool of the belief system if you get my meaning.

 

[birch]

But they do not see this as being hypocritical. They see it as honing in to the god power or what have you. Mainlining ones way into god's presence so it will 'see' and 'hear' and 'strengthen' you. Like self-hypnosis. Its a tool of the belief system if you get my meaning.

You are not understanding the difference between those who work with nature to garner the best results such as focusing on the positive vs the negative.

religionists defend 'everything' under god's creation and then hypocritically try to change it when it doesn't suit them or grab what is good while defending what they even wouldn't want anything to do with.

non-religionists don't necessarily do that. they can point out what they think is good and what they think is not good about life, world, universe.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

You are not understanding the difference between those who work with nature to garner the best results such as focusing on the positive vs the negative.

religionists defend 'everything' under god's creation and then hypocritically try to change it when it doesn't suit them or grab what is good while defending what they even wouldn't want anything to do with.

non-religionists don't necessarily do that. they can point out what they think is good and what they think is not good about life, world, universe.

No I think you simply don't understand how the belief system works within the individual. They are not trying to 'change' anything. They believe that there is actually an energy, a god power, that is accessible to them and that acts in their favor...because they are loved or faithful and all that. Ever ask an Irish Catholic why her child died of disease? Its always 'gods will' and to boot they are now an angel in heaven where they no longer suffer the trials and tribulations of this world. Its a form of self-easing.

I remember once reading about some hindu guru who was much revered. When his son died he mourned. One of his followers asked "Why do you mourn if everything including death is only an illusion?" His answer was that '"Well that was a 'super-illusion". LOL! Always liked that one.

 

[birch]

No I think you simply don't understand how the belief system works within the individual. They are not trying to 'change' anything. They believe that there is actually an energy, a god power, that is accessible to them and that acts in their favor...because they are loved or faithful and all that. Ever ask an Irish Catholic why her child died of disease? Its always 'gods will' and to boot they are now an angel in heaven where they no longer suffer the trials and tribulations of this world. Its a form of self-easing.

you have not been following these posts by the theists here so you are just jumping in without considering their responses.

they have a "problem" with any criticism of god's creation. therefore, if i say god created a murderous system of nature, then that is hard for them to take even if it's obviously true. they keep saying it's perfect because god is perfect. what's even more of a farce is even the bible states that this universe is flawed/compromised etc. that means their views are not even in alignment with their religion. it's an ego issue to say that god is perfect, therefore creation is perfect and therefore they are perfect, minus some mistakes.

what you aren't getting is if you are going to defend that in principle, then you are a hypocrite to think you should ease yourself from the pain of your loved one dying or having been murdered.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

you have not been following these posts by the theists here so you are just jumping in without considering their responses.

they have a "problem" with any criticism of god's creation. therefore, if i say god created a murderous system of nature, then that is hard for them to take even if it's obviously true.

what you aren't getting is if you are going to defend that in principle, then you are a hypocrite to think you should ease yourself from the pain of your loved one dying or having been murdered.

What? You mean all of them? No. They are working within a belief. You don't need to align yourself to an exact line of reasoning when you work within a belief. What I am saying is that you see it as being hypocritical when in actuality for them it is all aligned, a holistic system that works perfectly and all the kinks are ironed out.

You see them as being hypocrites and they see you as being deluded and misguided or in denial or worse simply evil and misfortunate.

 

[birch]

What? You mean all of them? No. They are working within a belief. You don't need to align yourself to an exact line of reasoning when you work within a belief. What I am saying is that you see it as being hypocritical when in actuality for them it is all aligned, a holistic system that works perfectly and all the kinks are ironed out.

You see them as being hypocrites and they see you as being deluded or in denial.

No, it's you who don't get it. when one claims that they are a christian and are basing their beliefs on the bible, then it should be aligned. they aren't.

that is not a problem in itself but then don't claim it is. i don't know why one would believe in a christian god or the bible when their beliefs don't even coincide with it. might as well just be a general theist. even if it was, it still won't be agreed with on principle by many people. still, if you truly believe, then you shouldn't waffle or change your story whenever there is disagreement.

pay attention: if you claim it is "christianity" and from god's word the "BIBLE", then it should be. if you don't, then you can just say it's something that they just personally believe. understand the difference?

i obviously have more experience with christians than you do. it's amazingly exactly the same what these christians have really revealed about their real beliefs and opinions and the ones i've personally known which have claimed they are christians as well. not even similar, exactly the same.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

No, it's you who don't get it. when one claims that they are a christian and are basing their beliefs on the bible, then it should be aligned. they aren't.

that is not a problem in itself but then don't claim it is. i don't know why one would believe in a christian god or the bible when their beliefs don't even coincide with it. might as well just be a general theist.

pay attention: if you claim it is "christianity" and from god's word the "BIBLE", then it should be. if you don't, then you can just say it's something that they just personally believe. understand the difference?

Its aligned to them. Don't you see that? Its all aligned to them. That's why some of them are so dogmatic in their reasoning.

All of it is just something they personally believe and for all things that they personally believe they can find some passage from somewhere to support their claims because its all coming from within that system. Ever read the bible? Ever notice all the inconsistencies? Well just go to a devout christian from whatever the order and they will have some explanation of why that is and they will refer to the same bloody book and belief to support it!

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

i obviously have more experience with christians than you do. it's amazingly exactly the same what these christians have really revealed about their real beliefs and opinions and the ones i've personally known which have claimed they are christians as well. not even similar, exactly the same.

Okay then give me an example or two.

 

[birch]

Okay then give me an example or two.

it would be better if you actually read the posts of the theists here instead of just jumping in without realizing what the points of contention are?

besides, it is pretty obvious by the points i've made yet you aren't getting it either.

it is hypocritical to defend a system and then expect to get different results. if they think god's creation is perfect, then they shouldn't manipulate different results. they should just accept it as it is but they don't. they cry and suffer like anyone else and plead and ask god for change. isn't that a bit hypocritical? it's admitting that it's not to their liking. then don't pretend or preach to me your god is perfect to my face.

the example? what they've revealed is really an issue of power. god represents power/perfection and that is the association that they want as representative of themselves. it's hidden arrogance. ironicly, they will excuse any immorality in order to defend god/religion. maintaing the image/belief is more important. i don't think most of them are actually moral.

exactly like all the other the christians i've known, with very rare exceptions.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

And so what makes you think I didn't read the posts? I have read the posts. It is only hypocritical to defend a system and then expect different results if you are not under the spell of that system whatever it might be. You wrote:

"what they've revealed is really an issue of power. god represents power/perfection and that is the association that they want as representative of themselves. it's hidden arrogance. ironicly, they will excuse any immorality in order to defend god/religion. maintaing the image/belief is more important. i don't think most of them are actually moral."

Well yes but this is their form of morality. Why would someone who believes in a loving god then kill an abortion doctor for committing what they think is 'wholesale killing'? Well in their convoluted sense of justice and morality it all makes perfect sense to them. Its aligned because they have identified the evil and its whom they think is the wholesale murderer. Their action of killing is simply 'justice', god's retribution and they even get brownie points in heaven. It doesn't have to make sense for someone who is caught up in a system of belief that constantly validates itself and doesn't warrant critical thinking.

 

[birch]

It doesn't have to make sense for someone who is caught up in a system of belief that constantly validates itself and doesn't warrant critical thinking.

yes, today it's called 'sociopath/psycopath'.

what is so glaringly obvious is there has been no to little mention of the "devil" which is a prominent figure in the bible. hmm?

in order to continually purport that god's creation is "perfect", they even have to ignore the glaring devil that's causing all the problems that are mentioned in the bible. even in genesis, the devil is cited as infected creation with evil with also god sometimes instigating it. now, it could be that the devil is the other side of the coin of god but that is not how the bible presents it. it is a separate entity but either way one that is clear which makes their belief that creation is perfect a direct contradiction even to the bible.

this is why they are blatantly dishonest. people like that are trustworthy.

It is only hypocritical to defend a system and then expect different results if you are not under the spell of that system whatever it might be.

uh, no. hypocritical is hypocritical. just because one believes that they are right, doesn't mean they are. just because one thinks they are right to burn a heretic doesn't mean it's not murder etc. spell or not doesn't change the reality.

anyways, i'm not needing someone to help me understand religionists or theists if that's what you think. it seems you feel sorry for them or there is a hint of that. i don't need you as a self-appointed go-between.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

yes, today it's called 'sociopath/psycopath'.

what is so glaringly obvious is there has been no to little mention of the "devil" which is a prominent figure in the bible. hmm?

in order to continually purport that god's creation is "perfect", they even have to ignore the glaring devil that's causing all the problems that are mentioned in the bible. even in genesis, the devil is cited as infected creation with evil with also god sometimes instigating it. now, it could be that the devil is the other side of the coin of god but that is not how the bible presents it. it is a separate entity but either way one that is clear which makes their belief that creation is perfect a direct contradiction even to the bible.

this is why they are blatantly dishonest. people like that are trustworthy.



uh, no. hypocritical is hypocritical. just because one believes that they are right, doesn't mean they are. just because one thinks they are right to burn a heretic doesn't mean it's not murder etc. spell or not doesn't change the reality.

anyways, i'm not needing someone to help me understand religionists or theists if that's what you think. it seems you feel sorry for them or there is a hint of that. i don't need you as a self-appointed go-between.

Well no a sociopath and psychopath are those who feel absolutely no empathy. Now the person who kills the abortion doctor could indeed be a sociopath or psychopath but you cannot expand that to include all of those who 'in thought and theory' expound and rely upon a particular religious theory.

Well you see again I disagree that they are being 'blatantly dishonest' in order for you to prove that they are being blatantly dishonest you would have to show evidence that they are aware of discrepancy. You have to prove that they are willfully trying to pull one over so to speak and I don't think the majority are.

Okay so you say that the hypocritical is hypocritical regardless of their state of mind. So what is hypocrisy? Dictionary has it as "the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie."

One cannot be a hypocrite if one believes a lie and sees their opinions and virtues as being just by their own interior system. One can only be a hypocrite if one is really a nihilist purporting a hoax, a lie. There are some, like some evangelist leaders for example that do this for the sake of money for example. But someone like say Jim Jones, who was more of a clinical narcissist than a sociopath, was not being a hypocrite, in his warped internal world all of his actions were just. Indeed even the parents of Anneliese Michel believed that what they were doing for their daughter was right, good and in her best interest, they believed that their actions were an act of love and aid not cruelty. And obviously there are many catholics who still do believe that their actions were right and just and loving and so they go to the grave of A. Michel and treat it as a shrine as they also consider her suffering as that worthy of a saint.

I didn't reply here toots to help you understand the inner mechanisms which make up belief. You were the one who responded to me not the other way around. But as a side note, I think you indeed do not understand the average theist.

Nuff said.