Are all soldiers like the Nazis?

This war is not being fought with civilians nor by civilians.

There will at times be civilian deaths but the numbers are usually higher for those engaged in the war. For example there were only three civilians who died during the Falkland. The British lost 255 soldiers and the Argentinian's lost 649.

A professional military force always avoids civilians.
 
Like this?

AUSTRALIAN special forces soldiers have killed five children in an attack on a compound in Afghanistan.

"The Taliban operate within the civilian community. We do everything we can to avoid civilian casualties and deeply regret the loss of innocent life."
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Gee no kidding? The Taliban were sleeping at home? The Aussies entered their compound pre-dawn and started shooting and children were in the way? How odd.

Do Australian troops never sleep in their homes? Would someone entering their homes to kill them be justified in killing the families they were using as civilian shields?

http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-troops-kill-5-afghan-children-20090213-874z.html
 
5 kids per insurgent an acceptable loss of life?
thats outrageous
i think 4 is fair

yup
we have college degrees, our shoes are shined and shirts starched.
we are your new and improved soldiers
 
S.A.M. said:
Like this?

Gee no kidding? The Taliban were sleeping at home? The Aussies entered their compound pre-dawn and started shooting and children were in the way? How odd.

Do Australian troops never sleep in their homes? Would someone entering their homes to kill them be justified in killing the families they were using as civilian shields?

http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-troops-kill-5-afghan-children-20090213-874z.html
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Where did you read that the children were 'sleeping at home' and the aussies entered the compound and started shooting children? Creating your own narrative now?

This is what the article states:

"During the conduct of this operation there was an exchange of fire between our forces and the Taliban," General Evans said.

"Tragically, a number of people were killed and wounded during this incident."

A suspected insurgent was killed along with five Afghan children. No Australians were hurt. Australians operated under strict rules of engagement and set out to avoid civilian casualties at all times, General Evans said.

"The Taliban operate within the civilian community. We do everything we can to avoid civilian casualties and deeply regret the loss of innocent life."


See Sam they call it a 'tragedy'. They were engaged in an exchange of fire. There was no 'going in and shooting children in their sleep'. Stop the lies Sam!
 
Oh did the Australians shoot their own children? The compond was a residential neighborhood. This is not the only article on the issue. Nor is it a solitary incident. In India, we get real news.

And if thats difficult for you to comprehend, note that these are Australian troops in Afghanistan.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/type,COUNTRYNEWS,,AUS,499e98dc8,0.html

The incident happened on February 12 in Oruzgan Province, where Australia's special forces were clearing a number of houses in the hunt for insurgents, defense officials said in a statement.

"Current reporting indicates that those killed include a suspected insurgent and, sadly, local nationals including five children killed, and two children and two adults injured," it said.

Those injured in the incident were treated at the scene and evacuated for further treatment.

Australia's military has started an inquiry into the incident, but said the rules of engagement for forces in Afghanistan were designed to minimize civilian casualties.

Australia has around 1,100 troops in Afghanistan, based mainly in the southern Uruzgan Province where the Taliban has a strong presence.
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The Australian Defence Force chief of joint operations, Lieutenant-General Mark Evans, said the soldiers were involved in an operation in Oruzgan province, southern Afghanistan, in darkness early on Thursday.

"During the conduct of this operation there was an exchange of fire between our forces and the Taliban," General Evans said.

"Tragically, a number of people were killed and wounded during this incident."

A suspected insurgent was killed along with five Afghan children. No Australians were hurt.


lets eyeball the bold:

"in darkness early on thursday" is pre dawn. kids most likely to be sleeping

"conduct of this operation" implies aussies are the aggressors

"exchange of fire" means the suspects shot back

/cracks up
 
Imagine a bunch of armed men breaking into your house in the darkness in the middle of war. What did they expect?

And why doesn't the "suspected" insurgent have a name?
 
S.A.M. said:
Imagine a bunch of armed men breaking into your house in the darkness in the middle of war. What did they expect?

And why doesn't the "suspected" insurgent have a name?
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No. His name is irrelevant to all but those who bury him.

Its a war sam. What did you expect?
 
so ah
we pile tragedy upon tragedy upon tragedy.......and what do we get
according to lucy, a tragedy
nothing more
 
Lucysnow said:
No. His name is irrelevant to all but those who bury him.
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Its also relevant to the death of five children. I'd want to know how dangerous that insurgent was that warranted breaking down doors in the dark and shooting at children.
 
Here is how they practice:

Kicking down doors and searching houses was on the training agenda for today. Admittedly it looks easy when you watch it on television, but actually doing it is much tougher, especially when bad guys are shooting from behind concealed stair wells, closets, etc. During our first hour of instruction we were taught various techniques, formations, hand signals, etc., for clearing a house. Believe it or not there is a systematic way to do this. We learned the basics and then got to practice in a vacant house. Phase II we got to practice in another vacant house with paper targets. Then in Phase III we were locked and loaded and shot paint pellets at the targets. In Phase IV we donned our protective masks and hiked up a hill towards a 2 story house filled with snipers. Note: The pellets are supposed to be made of paint and break on contact. Today the pellets did not break and left a welt when they hit you.

As we trudged toward our objective in full battle rattle, the gas mask became quite restrictive and made breathing very difficult. In addition, the heavy breathing fogged up the masks limiting visibility. Anyhow as we were in a staggered wedge formation, the snipers threw a grenade at us and we all scattered like ants. Our plan of advance didn’t go as planned. My team was supposed to lead the charge, but my weapon jammed and I was unable to return fire. Meanwhile, the snipers were sporadically shooting at us. One of my teammates tossed a smoke grenade to conceal our movement. In the midst of the smoke he attempted to throw another one and hit one of my teammates in the head. The 2nd member of my 4 man team had a malfunction with his weapon and our third man tripped and fell to the ground. Fortunately the other two 4 man teams were able to rush the building and suppress fire.

While my team assembled next to the house wall, the snipers took advantage of our vulnerability and shot from the 2nd floor windows hitting one of our members. We returned fire and ran inside the house. Not knowing the layout of a house can be tricky and frustrating too. This house had stairs, hallways, hidden rooms, and the snipers crouched in the dark awaiting for us. We used our Sure-fire attachments on our weapons and illuminated the areas and quickly extinguished the bad guys. Only a few team members were stung by the sniper’s pellets. We were rather fortunate compared to other classmates who were pelted severely when their team tried to storm the house.

We ate scrumptious MREs for lunch and spent a few hours doing reconnaissance on the 2 villages we are clearing tomorrow. Wake up is at 0450 hrs, so I am going to sign off for tonight.
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Note how the people living in their own homes are the "aggressors" here.

Ridiculous, are these soldiers brain dead?

http://afghanistanmylasttour.com/2009/04/16/kicking-down-doors/
 
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S.A.M. said:
Its also relevant to the death of five children. I'd want to know how dangerous that insurgent was that warranted breaking down doors in the dark and shooting at children.
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It was a news story Sam not an obituary.

Insurgents are very dangerous Sam they set off bombs that kill innocent civilians (some may even be children). Why is it that I never see you start a thread of outrage at how muslims are running around killing muslims willy nilly?

It was not an outcome they were aiming for but the children were there, they were in the way of cross fire and were killed.

You ask if the Aussies shoot their own children? Well there aren't insurgents in the suburbs Sam. You are still pretending that you don't understand what happens during a war. They have done an inquiry on the incident so they are following procedure. So what is the problem sam? I mean you should be pleased that the dead were counted! Not a few posts ago you claimed that there were no body counts in Afghanistan.

Sam you have never been in a conflict situation then maybe your assessment of the Aussie soldier would be worth something. As it stands its just you foaming at the mouth as usual.
 
I find it really disturbing when people justify such killing to me.

I wonder how the people in the two villages fared the next day. I wonder what villages those were, how many children were killed there by morons playing with paper targets.
 
Lucysnow said:
Why is it that I never see you start a thread of outrage at how muslims are running around killing muslims willy nilly?.
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on a forum with a western audience? of what practical use would that be?

/chortle

lucy used your name 5 times in that post, sam :D
 
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