Nonsense, crap and pure bs, in any order you wish to place them, they are all equal garbage.
Any atheists here who were once believers?
- Thread starter wegs
- Start date
Nonsense, crap and pure bs, in any order you wish to place them, they are all equal garbage.
Look I needed healing more than most, so I delved deeper than most. Can we solve all the world's issues by faith? How much faith would that require? Could I even find a little piece of faith as small as a mustard seed? Plant it and see it grow, and see myself grow in faith, could I?
Yes I did, but I haven't moved mountains yet!
You do grow older at the same time. What we are trying to do is an incredibly difficult thing to do.
@ Jan:
I don't believe we have a soul. I believe we have a conscience...and in this life, how we live affects this life. Not an after life. I never liked the concept of how we lived and treated people here was a determinant of eternity for us.
If god exists...why would we suppose there is a need for an after life at all?
What is the purpose of a soul, you know?
I don't believe we have a soul. I believe we have a conscience...and in this life, how we live affects this life. Not an after life. I never liked the concept of how we lived and treated people here was a determinant of eternity for us.
If god exists...why would we suppose there is a need for an after life at all?
What is the purpose of a soul, you know?
See, believers and I once thought this way too, believe that faith and God bring the miracles.
How about having faith in mankind?
Why would a god need to compete with us?
It seems that if I believe in a god...I must believe that he orchestrates all the good things to happen and that mankind's abilities have nothing to do with it.
Why would a god create us, but compete with us?
If he is god, why does he need endless praise and adoration?
It sets people up to be angry with a god who doesn't "perform" as we would like.
You say a lot about a "chosen" people. If god exists, we are all chosen.
It seems that man likes to consider himself special over others in relation to God.
That is what causes the divisions
These might be the way you used to worship and think, but we don't do anything like that.
Because i haven't really done these things they aren't questions that concern me.
Like when you ask "Why would a god need to compete with us?" I don't even know what you mean by the question.
"If he is god, why does he need endless praise and adoration?" My adoration is doing his tasks he sets me, Its not waving my arms around in ecstasy. Even though I do get ecstatic and wave my arms around in true joy.
I look at both sides.
Knowing how an airplane flies is not necessary to claim to know some physics. Everybody has observed something, no matter how insignificant. For example everybody experiences gravity even if they don't know it as gravity. So at some level a physicist will be able to elaborate some scientific aspects of the idea to a leyman, and the leyman will be able to increase his knowledge based on what he already knows.
It obviously wouldn't be legitimate to you, but it may be to someone else.
jan.
Okay. Bare with me here.
You are observing my response to you right now. Okay?
What is it that is observing?
jan.
Is it possible for any sort of phenomenon that has social consequences not too?
Iow you can talk of which social conventions are more appropriate than others but you can't talk of it having none or less of them without promoting a view of diminishing or eradicating it (which, ,ironically, is a form of social control)
Can you talk in a way good average Joe Bloggs can understand you?
I think if he exists, he wants us treating our fellow man and woman with honor and respect. For honoring him is pretty trite if we overlook those around us. No?
My body. Consciousness.
Perhaps.
There are a variety of mechanisms in place that exert social control outside of religion, that I don't agree with. So...to a degree...you're right. But, religion shouldn't force itself on a society. Religion at any rate, should not seek out anyone, rather people should seek it, no?
I just explained why you can't talk of religion bearing no social control ... and also how you can't talk of eradicating its social influence without adopting a severe mode of social control
But do you agree it can get a bit out of control?
In any ideological battle ideas ultimately stand on their own merit.
I mean suppose religion does not conform to your ideas on how it presents its social agenda.
Are you likely to defer your point of view or up the ideological ante?
I think its more a point of being focused on what is being discussed.
Wegs caught the drift. The question is why you didn't. ....
I think because the concept of a god or God varies from person to person, an idea of him for all or even a majority, would never be able to stand on its own merit. Societies in the past, have conformed to religion...some societies today in other parts of the world restrict certain religions from being practiced or risk the fear of death. While this is extreme, it shows how religion can be a tool and nothing more, for man to control his surroundings.
It isn't a good idea for religion to exert control in society. It should be allowed to be practiced freely, per individual.
"... he wants... "
God lacks for nothing, he never wants anything.
We want something, so we were challenged, to keep our word, and to forgive others, and to look after our neighbours. If we could we might get the same from him. Something like that anyway.
So you are right, honouring him is honouring your neighbours. But even then no one has the financial wealth to solve the world's issues.
So how much humanitarian work do you have to do?
It allows the believers the right to believe in idiocy without the government encroaching while making sure that idiocy does not encroach on the government.
Because I started thinking of Muslim radicals and the Inquisition. We don't want that to happen again.