Any atheists here who were once believers?

[quinnsong]

Hmmm, a sausage factory all unto himself!

 

[Jan Ardena]

Stryder,

Since we are on a Forum the only potential prognosis is defined by observation. While Robittybob1 does attempt to come across as generally mild mannered, certain religious eccentricism as portrayed fluently by him. I guess you can say it's a "Stretch" to imply such an effect, but we'd only know for sure if Robittybob1 submitted himself for some tests which I'm pretty sure isn't really worth exploring (As it would likely be assumed demeaning and therefore seen negatively.)

Then why bring it up. All you are doing is demonizing religion, and people who are religious in general.
This is nothing but an attack.


jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Does that include you?

Err...No!

jan.

 

[Bells]

Hmmm, a sausage factory all unto himself!

With hairy shoulders..

Like a hairy marshmallow man..

I may never eat marshmallows again..:bawl:

 

[Balerion]

Stryder,



Then why bring it up. All you are doing is demonizing religion, and people who are religious in general.
This is nothing but an attack.


jan.

No he isn't. He's making an observation based on a pattern of behavior, one that more than a few people here would agree with.

Why is it that the most vitriolic zealots are the most sensitive? I mean, seriously, Jan. You trash opposing worldviews and the people who hold them on a regular basis, and you're always the first to cry foul any time you see an opportunity.

 

[Robittybob1]

[Offtopic but ontopic with Bells warning]
If Weg's felt endangered by Robittybob1 in any way, I'd suggest informing her local authorities, especially if this carries outside of sciforums on other websites etc

Otherwise if she really doesn't want to deal with him, she just has to use the ignore feature which can be found by going to her settings, looking for "Edit Ignore List" and just adding his name in there. All posts he posts thereafter will be withheld from being viewed, so she doesn't have to observe what he posts.

She could of course tell him directly and publicly that she doesn't want to communicate with him, however I know that she might find that hard, she might not want to be perceived cruel however if she doesn't state it that way then it will likely just lead him on which is worse in the long run.

Robittybob1,
I'm sure you are probably aware of previous news articles into "cognitive neuroscience of religious experience", what the particular studies show is that either through various chemistry changes or through applying electrodes to certain brain regions it's possible to manipulate the feeling of a religious event. The area's effected include the reward centre, the part of the brain that generates a psychological reward when something is done. In normal people the reward centre just rewards things like getting out of bed, readying for work, eating chocolate etc. In those with theological dispositions it's possible that they can get a reward from posed insightful statement, reading a bible etc. The problem is that it's also possible to merge one disposition with another, for instance having the inclination to have rewards for particular music that you see uplifting with a rationalisation that someone is the love of your life.

In drug induced experiments, it's possible for a person to become obsessive because of their brain chemistry and on reflection such subjects have often stated that they weren't themselves.

I'd suggest you think carefully about what it is you want from life and people in general as you might find that some of your brain chemistry isn't "firing on all cylinders", I'm not stating that your crazy, merely implying that you should be more self-aware about how you currently thing as it might be a precursor to a neurological failure further down the line (In other words you might want to consult a doctor)

@Stryder

Thank you for your concern. I will go and see a doctor even though I would guess that there is absolutely nothing wrong with me.
OK I am a bit intimidated today coming back on here with the threat of some sort of banning hanging over wegs and I, but the discussion seems to continue, and yet I thought you were all told to stop.

So is it right that my mental health can be discussed on the forum and I can't reply? So I will on the basis of fairness. When my results come back someone will have to take me through the process of uploading it so you can all see the results. OK.

I read back over yesterday's posts and I didn't think they were that bad, honestly.
At times we all need a bit of straightening up. It helps us grow up.

If I get permission to explain how all this happened I will tell it like a story on the Beautiful Christian Song thread but the required permission has not been sort nor given yet.

So I would like to explain it openly but I feel it is in my best interests just to let it settle. But I must admit there have been some very astute and humorous comments made on the forum today. There is no right and wrong in this situation.

 

[Mazulu]

That's a much better explanation. I don't understand why wegs is being chastised, however. Robittybob1 is the one stalking her and making frightening comments about her. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but that was my understanding. In my view, this isn't about private drama, it's about (potentially) the safety of one of our members. I don't think this is the proper way of handling it. Are other moderators investigating this? Is James R? I sent him a PM but received no response. Maybe someone who will actually take into consideration that one of our members might potentially be a victim of stalking and in real danger?

I don't see wegs anywhere now. You upset her and now she's left us. The only source of light and positivity we had. You are a putz.

 

[Mazulu]

Scientists do not care in the least about your ridiculous religious beliefs. They are too busy doing research and experiments to care about myths and superstitions. When you get up on your soap box and rant, they merely laugh at a fool.

Just so you know, I skim over ad hominem attacks. Which basically means I have no idea what you're saying.

 

[Robittybob1]

Just so you know, I skim over ad hominem attacks. Which basically means I have no idea what you're saying.

@ Mazulu - I think you should read them and really answer them. For it sounds like you are running away. If there are spiritual experiences that baffle the Hell out of us let us be as open about it as possible. Put your answers on the Music thread if you want a bit of silence for there doesn't seem to be the same degree of interference there. I would like to understand what happened in your life too.

 

[Mazulu]

Just for the record, God is POWER. God enhances our freewill and empowers us to do evil or good. God is the power to bring the universe into existence. God extends His (Her) influence through things called souls. Souls can incarnate into the physical world, and reincarnate if God chooses. Each one of us is part of God. The atheist who denies the existence of God, well, you're on your own. Those who allow the power of God to flow through us will have all of our faults magnified; which gives us a chance to see what they are and to work on them. There is more to say, but not now...

 

[Mazulu]

@ Mazulu - I think you should read them and really answer them. For it sounds like you are running away. If there are spiritual experiences that baffle the Hell out of us let us be as open about it as possible. Put your answers on the Music thread if you want a bit of silence for there doesn't seem to be the same degree of interference there. I would like to understand what happened in your life too.

The power of God flows through us like light through a rough diamond. If we turn those rough edges into facets, the power of God shines through us and we become a beautiful gemstone. That is our relationship to God. That is why there are angels of light and creatures of darkness. It is not God who commits the atrocities of religion, it is God shining through the lives of wicked men. If the churches could become institutions of wisdom and love, they would shine forth in blazing glory of perfection. Atheism, no matter how polished, chiseled or perfected, gets no light from God.

 

[Robittybob1]

The power of God flows through us like light through a rough diamond. If we turn those rough edges into facets, the power of God shines through us and we become a beautiful gemstone. That is our relationship to God. That is why there are angels of light and creatures of darkness. It is not God who commits the atrocities of religion, it is God shining through the lives of wicked men. If the churches could become institutions of wisdom and love, they would shine forth in blazing glory of perfection. Atheism, no matter how polished, chiseled or perfected, gets no light from God.

Is that provable or is this just an hypothesis?

 

[(Q)]

Just for the record, God is POWER. God enhances our freewill and empowers us to do evil or good. God is the power to bring the universe into existence. God extends His (Her) influence through things called souls. Souls can incarnate into the physical world, and reincarnate if God chooses. Each one of us is part of God. The atheist who denies the existence of God, well, you're on your own. Those who allow the power of God to flow through us will have all of our faults magnified; which gives us a chance to see what they are and to work on them. There is more to say, but not now...

The power of God flows through us like light through a rough diamond. If we turn those rough edges into facets, the power of God shines through us and we become a beautiful gemstone. That is our relationship to God. That is why there are angels of light and creatures of darkness. It is not God who commits the atrocities of religion, it is God shining through the lives of wicked men. If the churches could become institutions of wisdom and love, they would shine forth in blazing glory of perfection. Atheism, no matter how polished, chiseled or perfected, gets no light from God.

Pure garbage, it's no wonder your religion causes so much conflict in the world. It's all hate speech.

 

[Mazulu]

Is that provable or is this just an hypothesis?

Both a teaching and a personal experience. I remember when I really started to experience God. I felt consumed by power, delicious power. And I had a tendency to be rude and condescending. I have been told through spiritual messages that I must open my heart and be more loving. I try. In a place like this, it's hard. But I put love into my domestic situation and love is reflected back to me. I would really like to put out more positivity and enthusiasm.

 

[Mazulu]

Pure garbage, it's no wonder your religion causes so much conflict in the world. It's all hate speech.

Part of you is God, the part that you repress.

 

[Aqueous Id]

Stryder,

Then why bring it up. All you are doing is demonizing religion, and people who are religious in general.
This is nothing but an attack.

jan.

I don't mind rbobbity's posts, except to see "what's new" I had to put him on ignore since he clutters the stack. But Stryder's comment about "rewards" for religious ideation--not heavenly rewards, but psychological ones, and probably chemical rewards--demonstrates a level of insight which may not yet have touched this thread.

It may be beyond the scope of current science to definitively answer the mail on what Stryder is referring to, but let us not forget that we are neither purely biological automatons nor are we products of magic. We are inhabiting personalities, and they are unconsciously driven by chemical and psychological rewards. The root impulse (which religion often demonizes) is the animal drive (sometimes called will, esp. when religions want to cast aspersions on humans as inherently evil, and when they want to subjugate their followers). However, animal drive also motivates parents to care for their young, it confers pair-bonding, and protection of communal interests even at the risk of harm to the warrior who rises to its defense. It also motivates humans to conform to the pecking order (obey laws).

The presence of these background elements further demonstrates that people who are having religious ideations are indeed living in a kind of simulation--as are we all. And the framework upon which it rests is established by a subsystem, a mechanism for rewards, which had evolved in our primordial ancestors long before it appeared in the more complex human form.

It's just another perspective on religious ideation and motivation in general, something without which religion would be impossible.

 

[Mazulu]

I don't mind rbobbity's posts, except to see "what's new" I had to put him on ignore since he clutters the stack. But Stryder's comment about "rewards" for religious ideation--not heavenly rewards, but psychological ones, and probably chemical rewards--demonstrates a level of insight which may not yet have touched this thread.

It may be beyond the scope of current science to definitively answer the mail on what Stryder is referring to, but let us not forget that we are neither purely biological automatons nor are we products of magic. We are inhabiting personalities, and they are unconsciously driven by chemical and psychological rewards. The root impulse (which religion often demonizes) is the animal drive (sometimes called will, esp. when religions want to cast aspersions on humans as inherently evil, and when they want to subjugate their followers). However, animal drive also motivates parents to care for their young, it confers pair-bonding, and protection of communal interests even at the risk of harm to the warrior who rises to its defense. It also motivates humans to conform to the pecking order (obey laws).

The presence of these background elements further demonstrates that people who are having religious ideations are indeed living in a kind of simulation--as are we all. And the framework upon which it rests is established by a subsystem, a mechanism for rewards, which had evolved in our primordial ancestors long before it appeared in the more complex human form.

It's just another perspective on religious ideation and motivation in general, something without which religion would be impossible.

Can you or anybody explain to me how a "consciousness" can experience a feeling of reward? Is consciousness made of chemicals? Does my bottle of vitamin water experience me drinking it? After all, it's made of chemicals.

 

[Robittybob1]

I don't mind rbobbity's posts, except to see "what's new" I had to put him on ignore since he clutters the stack. ....

OK but I thank you once again for appearing to be the most intelligent person around on Sciforums. You will never get strife from me Aqueous ID, no matter what.

 

[Robittybob1]

Can you or anybody explain to me how a "consciousness" can experience a feeling of reward? Is consciousness made of chemicals? Does my bottle of vitamin water experience me drinking it? After all, it's made of chemicals.

It would be like taste - we like the taste of something. It is the chemicals in what we eat that stimulate our taste buds and certain combinations are perceived as better than others. We are consciously aware of this.

 

[Mazulu]

It would be like taste - we like the taste of something. It is the chemicals in what we eat that stimulate our taste buds and certain combinations are perceived as better than others. We are consciously aware of this.

So consciousness is made out of chemistry? So does all chemistry have some awareness? Should we go back to calling it alchemy?