Another question for atheists: Morals...

greenberg said:
Please clairfy -
Those Eastern atheists are like which theists in their behavior?
Do you mean that Hindu theists and Hindu atheists are alike in their behavior?
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

Hindu atheists and for that matter even Muslims who do not believe in God do not feel compelled to go around making a production out of mocking those who do.

Michael said:
I think most of my morals are based on American social norms. Do not lie. Do not steal. So not cheat. Play fare. Help those in need of help when you can. That sort of thing.

So I'd say social norms. I also think they are pretty much universal now a days.
Click to expand...

Since when are those American social norms?

Have you read this book? Now those are American social norms.

spidergoat said:
Quite alot apparently.

It's funny you speak of eugenics. By maintaining patriarchal control over who marries whom, Muslim and Christian societies have been practicing eugenics for millenia.
Click to expand...

Yeah its pretty clear we have a demographic majority on ethnicity

/gags
 
Last edited:
S.A.M. said:
Hindu atheists and for that matter even Muslims who do not believe in God do not feel compelled to go around making a production out of mocking those who do.
Click to expand...

This is interesting.

It seems that only fire and brimstone Christianity might produce the militant atheists, while other religions don't seem to.
 
skaught said:
What are (some of) your morals.
Click to expand...
Keep an open mind, be discilined/humble, be respectful to everyone, be loyal to those close to me, don't purposely humiliate people, and don't hurt or steal from anyone who didn't fuck with me first are some.
Are they the same/similar to judeo-xtianity?
Click to expand...
Somewhat, but different aswell.
What do you base your morals on?
Click to expand...
They make life much better. There's no reason to start conflict, there are better things that I could be doing than fighting/arguing. There's not many people who I like, so I like to keep the friends that I make, and I'm not fond of others controlling me.
If there is no God, How can there be morality?
Click to expand...
What kind of question is that? How can there be morality if there is a god who controls our every actions for its divine plan?
 
greenberg said:
This is interesting.

It seems that only fire and brimstone Christianity might produce the militant atheists, while other religions don't seem to.
Click to expand...
This is just your perception. The U.S. is one of the only nations which guarantees religious freedom and freedom of speech and has a significant religious population. In most other nations, religion is either not worth arguing about, or too dangerous to argue about. Atheists in the U.S. will naturally be most familiar with Christianity.

Think about what someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali has to go through just to publicly admit atheism. Salman Rushdie, same deal. Leaders of nations publicly condone assassination attempts on these people.

There are famous atheists in other nations, you probably simply haven't heard of most of them.
 
ggazoo said:
I'm not sure about that. It sounds like you're referencing evolution, which, as a Christian, I don't doubt. When it's used as an all encompassing theory as a worldview however, there are insurmountable difficulties.

In terms of morality, I don't think evolution fits; the view that altruistic genes were passed down to us and now the great majority of us feel that unselfish behaviour is "right".

An individuals self-sacrificing, altruistic behaviour toward his or her own blood kin might result in a greater survival rate for the individual's family or extended clan, and therefore result in a greater number of people. However, for evolutionary purposes the opposite response - hostility to all people outside ones group - should be just as widely considered moral and right behaviour. Yet today we believe that sacrificing time, money, emotion and even life - especially for someone "not of our kind" or tribe - is right.

If we see a total stranger fall in the river we jump in after him, or feel guilty for not doing so. In fact, most people will feel the obligation to do so even if the person in the water is an enemy. How could that trait have come down by a process of natural selection? Such people would have been less likely to survive and pass on their genes. On the basis of strict evolutionary naturalism, that kind of altruism should have died out of the human race long ago. Instead, it's stronger than ever.
Click to expand...

I see you are still posting this crap after I and others debunked it a week ago. I'd appreciate it if you would stop doing these hit and run posts and actually allow your stupid beliefs to be challenged by debate. Seems you are a bit scared to do so.

Alturism. I don't believe it's non-beneficial to the individual. To give you some smaller scale examples (no running in burning homes), you can do something which someone else benefits from, and it has cost you time and effort, but it makes you feel good that you do it. It will likely increase your standing in a community. Mourning is alturistic, but people secretly enjoy it, don't they? I suspect people get a kick our of minute silences. The social solidarity it can create is as a whole beneficial. Those thousands of crying mourners on the street after the death of princess Diana were probably doing so for selfish reasons. Throwing roses in front of the hurse... give me a break! It screams of a therapeutic thrill which is probably a byproduct of a clan being strengthened as a unit after a tragic event.

I am speaking from personal experience here, so maybe in your eyes that just proves I'm not alturistic. But my point is, for me (and I think most other people) the moment you have done something altruistic and it then becomes acknowledged by others, it makes you feel good. Getting respect from your peers is something that not even a hardened skeptic like me can wipe from my genes.

Evolution and morality... You claim that evolution did create our entire bodies, but influencing our behavior is beyond it? That is simply stupid and pathetically naive. All of our behavior, good or bad, is straight from our past.
 
redwards said:
This is just your perception. The U.S. is one of the only nations which guarantees religious freedom and freedom of speech and has a significant religious population. In most other nations, religion is either not worth arguing about, or too dangerous to argue about.
Click to expand...

I still think that the content of particular religious beliefs makes the deciding difference in what the atheists in relation to a particular theism will be like.


There are famous atheists in other nations, you probably simply haven't heard of most of them.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about famous atheists, but about militant, adamant atheists.

And I do know of famous atheists.
 
redwards said:
This is just your perception. The U.S. is one of the only nations which guarantees religious freedom and freedom of speech and has a significant religious population. In most other nations, religion is either not worth arguing about, or too dangerous to argue about.
Click to expand...

Like India?
 
redwards said:
:shrug: There are famous Indian atheists.
Click to expand...

# Joseph Edamaruku (1934–2006): Indian journalist, author, leader in the rationalist movement, and winner of the International Atheist Award in 1979.

# Sanal Edamaruku (1955–): Indian rationalist, president of the Indian Rationalist Association

#Vinayak Damodar Savarkar (1883–1966): Indian revolutionary freedom fighter, and Hindu nationalist leader

#Bhagat Singh (1907–1931): Indian revolutionary freedom fighter

#Salman Rushdie (1947–): Indian-born British essayist and author of fiction.

#Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar (1910–1995): Indian American astrophysicist known for his theoretical work on the structure and evolution of stars. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1983

We've been doing it a lot longer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cārvāka
 
S.A.M. said:
# Joseph Edamaruku (1934–2006): Indian journalist, author, leader in the rationalist movement, and winner of the International Atheist Award in 1979.

# Sanal Edamaruku (1955–): Indian rationalist, president of the Indian Rationalist Association

#Vinayak Damodar Savarkar (1883–1966): Indian revolutionary freedom fighter, and Hindu nationalist leader

#Bhagat Singh (1907–1931): Indian revolutionary freedom fighter

#Salman Rushdie (1947–): Indian-born British essayist and author of fiction.

#Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar (1910–1995): Indian American astrophysicist known for his theoretical work on the structure and evolution of stars. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1983

We've been doing it a lot longer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cārvāka
Click to expand...

Uhh. The U.S. hasn't been around that long, and seriously, how the hell do you leave Gora off of that list?
 
greenberg said:
I still think that the content of particular religious beliefs makes the deciding difference in what the atheists in relation to a particular theism will be like.




I wasn't talking about famous atheists, but about militant, adamant atheists.

And I do know of famous atheists.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your first point. I am not interested in individual beliefs. I simply value reason over superstition.
 
Exhumed said:
If you refer to Americans, remember most of the Bush administration claim to be religious :O As do most of the military, including the higher ranks.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Not all Republicans fall into the trap of liberalism.
 
redwards said:
:shrug: There are famous Indian atheists.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Perhaps you were referring to M*W's Friendly Atheist Quotes (FAQs) of the Day:

"Do you think I am superstitious? I am a super-atheist." ~ Mohandas K. Gandhi

"The concepts of truth may differ. But all admit and respect the truth. That truth I call God. For sometime I was saying, "God is Truth," but that did not satisfy me. So now I say, "Truth is God." ~ Mohandas. K. Gandhi

and M*W's Anti-Bitterness Comments (ABCs) of the Day:

"The Mind is the key to Health and Happiness." ~ Sai Baba, Indian Spiritual Leader

and:

"A person who is not disturbed by the incessant flow of desires can alone achieve peace, and not the man who strives to satisfy such desires." ~ Bhagavad Gita

and:

"The moment the slave resolves that he will no longer be a slave, his fetters fall. He frees himself and shows the way to others. Freedom and slavery are mental states." ~ Mahatma Gandhi, 1869-1948, Indian Leader, Moral Teacher and Reformer
 
S.A.M. said:
Since when are those American social norms?
Click to expand...
Those are blue collar Northern American social norms.

As for American foreign policy, semi-clever people use an idealized version of WWII together with American social values to convince Americans they are freeing people via war or that war is an unwanted necessary or war is defensive.
You should sympathize with this. That's exactly the same way you think about the Arab conquest of the Persians. Remember - when they handed out the candies and lollies. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top