"Allah" is the god of the christians, muslims, and jews

[Adstar]

I actually said 'barely having' heard of Jesus.

Yes and i actually read what you said an answered your question from the description you gave me. If he is as you say a muslim teenager who dies in the mountain of afganistan then the only possible information he could receive about Jesus is from the quran and the qurans description of Jesus is a distortion. So the young guy would never have received the Gospel message.

And remember that Jesus is honored in Islam so every devout Muslim knows something of him.

What they know is a distortion of the truth and is therefore useless to them for their eternal salvation.

How much does one have to have heard of Jesus and his message?

They must be told that:

God was manifested in the flesh through Jesus. Jesus was without sin He came into being by the power of God not via a human father, that His death atoned for the sins of those who would accept His death as atonement for their sins. That His teachings are the revealed will of God. That He was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven and that He will come again. That only through the atonement of Jesus can any man be saved from the Lake of Fire.

That’s the basics

As one grows in knowledge of Jesus they come to know more and more of His teachings as the teachings become known they must be accepted as the truth. Jesus must be believed if one can say they believe in Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[onlinerotter1]

im sorry to interrup u conver. but i would really like asking the people wich are serving around here if
1. they have really read the christianity bible?
2. dit they ever read the coran or other religion philosophys?
and if so....
3. Dit they understand, really understand what they write and what they wanna sey?
than we can start a real conversation in a neutral circle

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Yes and i actually read what you said an answered your question from the description you gave me. If he is as you say a muslim teenager who dies in the mountain of afganistan then the only possible information he could receive about Jesus is from the quran and the qurans description of Jesus is a distortion. So the young guy would never have received the Gospel message.

How much info must a teenage Muslim have to heard such that he must leave his parents' religion and convert or he is damned forever?

What they know is a distortion of the truth and is therefore useless to them for their eternal salvation.

And also unnecessary, according to you. In fact a missionary going into remote villages is in fact jeopardizing the souls of moral Muslims, Buddhists and so on.

They must be told that:

God was manifested in the flesh through Jesus. Jesus was without sin He came into being by the power of God not via a human father, that His death atoned for the sins of those who would accept His death as atonement for their sins. That His teachings are the revealed will of God. That He was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven and that He will come again. That only through the atonement of Jesus can any man be saved from the Lake of Fire.

So if they hear that and do not give up the religion of their family and village they will suffer eternal damnation?

 

[Adstar]

How much info must a teenage Muslim have to heard such that he must leave his parents' religion and convert or he is damned forever?

Once a person believes Jesus then they have already left their parents religion, they have already converted. It's not some incredible detailed ceremony or saga, it can happen in a moment. It happened to me. Did i leave my parents, no not physically, but i no longer shared their beliefs. i left them in spirit i guess.

And also unnecessary, according to you. In fact a missionary going into remote villages is in fact jeopardizing the souls of moral Muslims, Buddhists and so on.

They are heading the call of Jesus to go out into the world and give the message of Jesus to everyone. THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING,

Once people have received the message then the ball is in their court and they can accept or reject it as they deem fit.

Have i played a part in sending people to the eternal Lake of Fire? Yes i believe i have probably hundreds, maybe thousands. I am an incredibly dangerous person to talk to. As with all who carry the Gospel are. Discussions about God should never be entered into lightly or as an avenue for humour as some in here do.

So if they hear that and do not give up the religion of their family and village they will suffer eternal damnation?

They must discard any belief that teaches anything in conflict with the Gospel yes. They can remain with their family and stay in their village, but as a former muslim who has come to believe Jesus in the mountains of afghanistan they would probably be disowned by their family and killed by their villagers in short order. But the price for following the Messiah Jesus is to be executed as He was, but it is also to share in His resurrection.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

As with all who carry the Gospel are. Discussions about God should never be entered into lightly or as an avenue for humour as some in here do.

I have found God to be less stiff and rigid than you seem to think he is. It seems people find a version of God that fits their own personality or matches their self-hatred and self-restrictions in far too many cases.

 

[Cris]

Adstar,

They are heading the call of Jesus to go out into the world and give the message of Jesus to everyone.

That’s not accurate. The best we can say is that they imagine they are heading a call, no such actual call has ever been confirmed as real.

THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING,

Only to their limited and heavily biased perspective. For everyone else it is unsolicited and coercive propaganda.

Have i played a part in sending people to the eternal Lake of Fire? Yes i believe i have probably hundreds, maybe thousands. I am an incredibly dangerous person to talk to. As with all who carry the Gospel are.

This attitude is perhaps the most despicable and commonly displayed by many Christians – total conceited arrogance – that somehow your imaginary constructs give you the right to feel superior over anyone else.

Discussions about God should never be entered into lightly or as an avenue for humour as some in here do.

Quite the reverse must be carefully preserved and fostered. As we politely smile at the small child who invents imaginary friends, your case as an adult deserves no less than open hilarity.

 

[Mr.Spock]

So, I have recently been in debate with several religious conservatives on this topic. They didn't believe me whn they heard that the muslims believe that their god is also the god of the christians and the Jews. What do you know about this?

i met a lot of muslims across the net.

very few were "understanding" towered jews, christians, and basically any other religion.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Hypocrite, i will give you a prime example of puffed up superior attitude talk from an arrogant swine: read the quote below.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar,
you know well that the superior attitude of another is not an excuse of your own. You are so used to your beliefs and the qualities of the God you think are obvious, that you miss how cruel and smug your position is. You approve of a really rather ghastly infantile God who would punish people forever. This behavior in relation to earthly dictators is disgusting. It does not become forgivable when it is in relation to a deity. That you could think a loving God could do this, is as confused and evil as believing Pinochet was right to have students tossed out of helicopters over the ocean because their ideas might be bad.

This bowing down to dictators, spiritual and earthly, is one of the sickest traditions we humans have. We have every right to ask why you would believe in a God who is so cruel and somehow see him as loving and we are right on when we smell the pogrom, the ethnic cleansing, the holocaust, etc. you hide in your spiritual beliefs. You believe in a God who after death dividing is just like the horrors on the earthly plane.

I wish you could be honest and admit the hate that feeds you choice of God.

 

[Revolvr]

In Islam, both paradise and hell are described in great detail. In Christianity they are not. In fact we are told that they are beyond our understanding. Most of what we think of when visualizing heaven and hell are folk theology. Sitting in clouds with wings eating cream cheese, or the Dante's Inferno version of Hell.

Common misconceptions of heaven and hell are rife with the ideas of Man, not with the Word of God. It would be a sad thing to miss a walk with God because one has a folk theological view of Christianity.

Romans 6:23 is one of the best-known verses of the Bible. Yet many people either overlook what it plainly says or read into it an entirely different meaning. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Death, not eternal life.

Pope John Paul II declared that hell is ‘not a punishment imposed externally by God’ but is the natural consequence of the unrepentant sinner’s choice to live apart from God”.

In Matthew 10:28: Jesus says “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]”

Jesus compared hell to Gehenna, a burning trash dump outside of Jerusalem where all was consumed by fire or maggots.

Hell represents death of the soul. The Lake of fire does what? It consumes and destroys. It does not eternally torment. "Eternal damnation" does not mean eternal torture, it means death and destruction.

Likewise in heaven we will not be sitting around playing harps and trumpets. We will be put to work. But I’ll save that for some other time.

 

[Myles]

No, Allah is not the same God as the God of Christianity. The God of Christianity is God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit.

That's quite a trick. Supermarket god.... buy one get two free

 

[Revolvr]

Yes you're right Myles. The Holy Spirit comes free at no extra charge to those who accept Jesus' suffering and execution for our sins and are baptized. We know this not just because the Bible teaches it, but because we feel it.

Don't worry Myles, its all a mass delusion. Just a myth.

But I'll pray for you anyway.

 

[nova900]

I have found God to be less stiff and rigid than you seem to think he is. It seems people find a version of God that fits their own personality or matches their self-hatred and self-restrictions in far too many cases.

Yes, there is a reason so many rednecks and intolerant people find the Old Testament God appealing! He was a construct of a similar mindset.

 

[Myles]

Yes you're right Myles. The Holy Spirit comes free at no extra charge to those who accept Jesus' suffering and execution for our sins and are baptized. We know this not just because the Bible teaches it, but because we feel it.

Don't worry Myles, its all a mass delusion. Just a myth.

But I'll pray for you anyway.

Well, you've got the bit about mass delusion right. Jesus was not executed for our sins. If he existed at all, he was executed because he was attempting to undermine the established order. In other words , he was a shit stirrer.There is no evidence that he intended to start a religion known as Christianity. That's down to Paul.

Jesus was a reformer, just like Martin Luther was. He wanted to reform Judaism, not abolish it.

Do you know about the Nazarenes and the Essenes ?

 

[Myles]

Adstar,
you know well that the superior attitude of another is not an excuse of your own. You are so used to your beliefs and the qualities of the God you think are obvious, that you miss how cruel and smug your position is. You approve of a really rather ghastly infantile God who would punish people forever. This behavior in relation to earthly dictators is disgusting. It does not become forgivable when it is in relation to a deity. That you could think a loving God could do this, is as confused and evil as believing Pinochet was right to have students tossed out of helicopters over the ocean because their ideas might be bad.

This bowing down to dictators, spiritual and earthly, is one of the sickest traditions we humans have. We have every right to ask why you would believe in a God who is so cruel and somehow see him as loving and we are right on when we smell the pogrom, the ethnic cleansing, the holocaust, etc. you hide in your spiritual beliefs. You believe in a God who after death dividing is just like the horrors on the earthly plane.

I wish you could be honest and admit the hate that feeds you choice of God.

He doesn't see god as hateful because he , Adstar , is on the winning team. It comes across time and again that he relishes the thought of those who do not agree with him being cast into the fiery lake.

 

[Cris]

adstar,

Hypocrite, i will give you a prime example of puffed up superior attitude talk from an arrogant swine: read the quote below.

But Adstar there is a key difference - Christians deliberately inflict their arrogance on others yet none can show the difference between the child who invnets an imaginary friend and your invention of an imaginary friend.

Your sense of unwarranted and unjustified superiority is preventing you from seeing the pure humor in your unsupportable position.

 

[Myles]

adstar,

Not sure how animals enter this debate.

You really must read your Bible. He is referring to the Gadarene swine. They were minding their own busines and harming no one when Jesus cast out evil spirirts from a human and into the pigs. The demons caused the pigs to drown themselves. That is an example of loving Jesus in action.

 

[Cris]

Myles,

Phew! I almost thought for a moment he was throwing abuse but didn't think real Christians did that.

 

[Revolvr]

You really must read your Bible. He is referring to the Gadarene swine. They were minding their own busines and harming no one when Jesus cast out evil spirirts from a human and into the pigs. The demons caused the pigs to drown themselves. That is an example of loving Jesus in action.

Your opinion is exactly that of the townspeople. Jesus didn't even bother to talk to them about what happened. He just left. As the good book says, it is not worth casting pearls before swine.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar,
you know well that the superior attitude of another is not an excuse of your own. You are so used to your beliefs and the qualities of the God you think are obvious, that you miss how cruel and smug your position is. You approve of a really rather ghastly infantile God who would punish people forever. This behavior in relation to earthly dictators is disgusting. It does not become forgivable when it is in relation to a deity. That you could think a loving God could do this, is as confused and evil as believing Pinochet was right to have students tossed out of helicopters over the ocean because their ideas might be bad.

This bowing down to dictators, spiritual and earthly, is one of the sickest traditions we humans have. We have every right to ask why you would believe in a God who is so cruel and somehow see him as loving and we are right on when we smell the pogrom, the ethnic cleansing, the holocaust, etc. you hide in your spiritual beliefs. You believe in a God who after death dividing is just like the horrors on the earthly plane.

I wish you could be honest and admit the hate that feeds you choice of God.

I hate evil. I hate hypocrisy, I hate smug arrogance. My God hates evil, He hates hypocrisy and pride.

Humans should never be proud, because they are not perfect. Pride attached to an imperfect being is such a sickening and contemptible thing to see.

I am being honest when i say that a perfect God has the right to dictate to His creation His will. Your assessment of the God of Abraham comes from a mindset that see's God as being just another being a peer in existence not as a Being in a totally separate and higher level that created beings in this universe. You compare a perfect God with imperfect rulers of this world.

You cannot use the same set of standards you use to judge Human rulers in relation to God. Once you start to deal with a God all such measuring tools need to be thrown out the window.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Myles]

I hate evil. I hate hypocrisy, I hate smug arrogance. My God hates evil, He hates hypocrisy and pride.

Humans should never be proud, because they are not perfect. Pride attached to an imperfect being is such a sickening and contemptible thing to see.

I am being honest when i say that a perfect God has the right to dictate to His creation His will. Your assessment of the God of Abraham comes from a mindset that see's God as being just another being a peer in existence not as a Being in a totally separate and higher level that created beings in this universe. You compare a perfect God with imperfect rulers of this world.

You cannot use the same set of standards you use to judge Human rulers in relation to God. Once you start to deal with a God all such measuring tools need to be thrown out the window.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

You cannot use the same set of standards = you must abandon reason. What standards do you use in arriving at your certainty ?