Aliens?

[cato]

well, as far as the abduction thing goes, I don’t think anybody have been taken aboard an "alien" ship. I don’t really like to tell people this but I have seen a "UFO".

I was a total skeptic of this stuff before I saw it. I am a very logical man, but I cannot come up with any other explanation except that what I saw was 1. intelligent. 2. could accelerate from a dead stop to thousands of km/h in less than a second, ergo not human. I have tried to disprove what I saw many times, but I can't because it was stationary for minutes (I mistook it for a new moon) and then within a second of my looking at it was gone. so it not only was smart enough to know when I looked at it, but also was able to go from about twice treetop level to completely out of sight without making noise. my conclusion is that it is a nearly pure energy life form.

If you have any guesses as to what it could be I would be glad to hear them.

 

[KennyJC]

Of course there is life elsewhere. Anybody that says otherwise doesn't realise how huge the visible universe is.

Although it is interesting, that even though we can only imagine at how intelligent and technically advanced some aliens could be... At the same time it shouldn't be hard to believe there could be some alien made objects big enough for us to see with telescopes. But so far there is nothing... no huge sign post saying 'We are here!'

Then again Aliens looking at our sun from their telescopes would see nothing special about humanity either and could assume there is no life orbitting that star. That's why I believe it is ignorant for people to say the same about the zillions of other stars.

What we really need is a HUGE telescope. Hubble is only like 3 meters, and the largest earth based telescope is 10 meters. Although there are plans for larger... why don't we just build a 100 meter scope. Maybe then we could see Earth-like planets in the galaxy, or maybe other objects in the galaxy that appear to be crafted by some sort of intelligence.

Sadly the distances may just be too great for us to ever see any alien life.

 

[Avatar]

Sadly the distances may just be too great for us to ever see any alien life.

And that is good. Some alien civilization would only bring more problems. imho
As for alien life - don't say so, there's still Mars and Europa to check out.

 

[Silas]

"The official position of the United States government has always been that there are no "true" UFOs".

In other words no unexplained phenomena are the result of the activities of extraterrestrial sentient beings. If that is their official position they would have come to it from consulting with leading scientists such as Carl Sagan who, taking all in all can not find any reason to find the existence of alien intelligences necessary to explain any phenomena.

Did Carl Sagan not believe in sentient alien life forms? You bet he did!! Isaac Asimov in 1979's Extraterrestrial Civilizations came to a figure of 530,000 extant alien intelligences in the Milky Way (this low figure was assuming that the vast majority of alien civilisations blew themselves up as we ourselves were on the point of doing) and he quoted Sagan as believing the actual number could be as high as a billion (in the Milky Way). And yet the "UFO Phenomenon" had no more tireless debunker than Dr. Sagan.

In other words there is no conflict between the statement "UFO's are not the result of aliens" and "There are civilisations somewhere else in the Universe".

 

[Starman]

Are there aliens in this universe, an unknown life form? I think there is, don't you?

My thought behind that is:
Why would there only be life on Earth, why not on other planets. It's almost impossible that if we live in a universe - that never ends according to most theories - that has no other planet with organisms, or inhabitants.

Why do you think there are lifeforms in this universe who are not (yet) known by us, the human race. Or why do you think there are no aliens at all? Please give some arguments... I'd like to see them

Aliens, what are those people who come into this country by swimming accost the Rio Grande river?

 

[duendy]

CATO...very interesting you story. would like to hear more of course but am frightened of askin in case you do a runner like Bob seems to have, after me asking HIM for more details

my way is this: i am very interested in this -which is fascinating. unlike mose so-called sceptics i will not reduce all you lost who claim to have seen strange phenomena as all 'anecdotal' or fraudsters. i will ask questions, and ask for as much meticulous destail as possible...like that. the mindset that just dimisses you outright, i have really not much respect for. colsed mindedness, and defensiveness is what it is

and as for Carl Sagan? not much imagination i am afraid

 

[kenworth]

What we really need is a HUGE telescope. Hubble is only like 3 meters, and the largest earth based telescope is 10 meters. Although there are plans for larger... why don't we just build a 100 meter scope. .

huge huge engineering problems,although there are plans for much bigger mirrors by not making them parabolas or even using a liquid-like surface.i think its unquestionable that there are other forms of life in the universe although what forms is entirely debatable.if you just look at the number of stars in our galaxy and the estimated number of galaxies in the universe it becomes statistically very very unlikely that there would not be any forms of life elsewhere.i dont really believe in ufo's too much,for one reason i dont see why they would pretty much only go to america and why they pretty much would only kidnap plebs.

 

[Goblin]

In the pure scientific sense the answer is we don't know based on scientific tests. But....
Science needs things that can be tested by many and are Repeatable. UFOs for some reason just don't want to stand still for long. That does not mean that can't exist it means that they can't be studied via our standard scientific methods.

It would be recklessly egocentric for anyone to assume we are the only intelligent life in the universe. But most people including scientists have an ego. That always gets in the way of things. Going back in history hmmm. The earth was the center of the universe. The sun revolved around earth. Now we know we are just a atom in the grand universe. We are the center of nothing. That was all made up crap from the egos of past scholars and men of science and religious leaders. People who opposed it were in for serious opposition. This type of thinking still exists today. Not by all but many smart people. I guess the thinking is we are smarter than we really are, again the ole ego at work. We know quite a bit but still have much to learn on the subatomic level.

There are stars that are billions of years older than the earth. Lets be conservative lets say a civilization is only 100 million years ahead of us, no wait make that 10 million, no lets be very very conservative and say just 20,000 years ahead of us.
We have discovered much in the past 75 years, to think that we know it all is ludicrous.
The earth is like 5 billion years old, 75 years vs 5 billion, we are infants still. Think what we may know in 20,000 years from now? Do you think we will look back and think "gosh people in the year 2005 knew it all, nothing has been discovered in the past 20,000 years". Chances are we will be extinct. but assuming we make it.

There are more stars than grains of sand in all the beaches on earth. We have found ammonia on Mars (assumed to be produced by bacteria) Even though we are inching are way toward finding life scientifically I am going to go on a limb and say hell yes there is life elsewhere and probably forms that make Einstein look like a simpleton.

UFOs here? I have not seen one, but I have never seen a tornado either. I think all the tornado warnings are hoaxes, the photos have to be faked too. We have not been able to accurately measure the velocity of wind inside a tornado, so even if they exist they can't be that strong. They are just guessing as to how fast they spin internally. Total hoax I say

I have been investigating UFOs for the past few months. I have just been reading through all the garbage and trying to sort the hoaxes from the good information. That information plus + the sheer number of stars + a chance meeting of ex paratrooper and his wife (worked for Project Blue book) lead me to change my stance of UFOs. Originally I was of the stance that yes life probably exists in the universe but no ETs have never been here. To one that is having trouble denying the reality of them.

I give ETs having been here a 95% yes vote. I leave 5% out until I see one for myself.

 

[JoojooSpaceape]

For everyone who said yes, please grab your alienc (A real alien obviously) and show him to me, thanks.

 

[NO1]

yes, because I have the eye of knowledge and Macgyver agrees exactly with my dream.

 

[Arquibus]

I had an interesting experience with a pair of UFOs that may or may not have been alien. Driving down the road at night, I saw that a large aircraft was coming up behind me on my right side. As we stopped at the intersection, it passed flying very slow and met another craft that appeared the same in a patch of clear sky over a large house. As a watched, the two flew a close circle pattern around each other, and small lights shot back and forth between them. We turned the car off and watched for several minutes until they parted and shot off in separate directions at a speed that I would estimate around Mach4. They were at a relatively low altitude (no more than 5000 feet) and were completely silent. Since then, I have occasionally noticed single craft of a similar layout flying large circles at night, particularly over a forest near my friend's house. This sounds like either alien technology or a covert military project. One of my friends (not the same one) was out driving one night and got stopped by a cop to have his car checked, the cop saying that they were looking for someone. He has noticed black vans and sedans driving past his house at a higher rate than ever, and he has assured me that they were not the same cars. This sounds like something relevant, but as of yet I have been unable to get a handle on exactly what is going on.

 

[SkinWalker]

Just curious: how do you estimate a speed of Mach 4? Have you observed many Mach 4 aircraft in order to draw a comparison? Also, how did you come up with "no more than 5000 feet" (a little under a mile high)? Did you know the size of the object? Did you bounce a laser off of it?

These are all a priori assumptions that have no empirical data to quantify them. One cannot say that an object is at X velocity and Y altitude. Particularly if one doesn't know the dimensions of the object itself.

As I see it, the objects could have been in Earth orbit or even insects or bats caught in a light source only a couple feet above the ground.

"May or may not have been alien," indeed! They may or may not have been winged toasters for that matter!

 

[Arquibus]

I have a great ability at estimating distances as part of my marksman skill. My estimation of speed comes from seeing spacecraft such as satellites and once a space shuttle in motion. The distance is comparable to other aircraft that fly through the area (I live several miles from a commercial airport). The size of the aircraft again were comparable to the size of others, plus I could see the dark patches in between the lights to give them mass. This in turn gave me a size to work with. The wonderful thing about estimates is that they don't have to be right, so long as they were made with some kind of intelligence in the guess. I guess for you I would have to say something like, "Uhhh, it was dark, and there were these things, and they did stuff, and they went off fast." You scoff at anyone's experiences regardless of the fact that you weren't there to witness them. It would seem that you have a serious trust issue. You should see a psychiatrist, that is, if you can trust that they have a degree. Anyway, what kind of alien intelligence would it take to make a toaster glow and fly?

 

[SkinWalker]

I have a great ability at estimating distances as part of my marksman skill.

Poppycock. I'm retired military and used to teach marksmanship, so try that nonsense with someone else. A marksman can understand range because of the target's attributes. A target is known (usually a person) to the rifleman to be of a certain height & width, therefore range is easily estimated.

An "Unidentified Flying Object" however, is unknown, therefore the range is inestimable.

I scoff at poppycock. Give some facts and we can listen, but making a priori assumptions without empirical data only gives you the appearance of a mystery monger and sensationalist junkie.

 

[Arquibus]

I said that I had sight of the target, or did you just ignore that like any other bit of evidence of something that you don't understand. Plus, I have several questions for you. Why is it that you ignored my question about the toaster? I figured that an extreme skeptic such as yourself wouldn't dare try to post any idea that hasn't been cross checked a thousand times and by you at least five hundred. So have you seen a winged flying glowing toaster? Further, oh incredible scholar/photographer, what is your take on what happened? Assuming that you can bring yourself to act like there is a remote possibility that I am not lying, what would you suggest I saw? Bats and insects don't reflect lights in a recurring, set pattern. Normal civillian aircraft are simply not capable of the performance that I saw. I know this because I am studying to become an aerospace engineer. Anyway, the maneuvers that they were engaged in would be too dangerous to be legal, particularly that close to an airport. If you can prove me wrong, go for it, but as I believe you have said before, being the one that has a point to make, you indeed are the one that has to show my inaccuracy. Until then, my experience stands accurate.

 

[Stryder]

I will state this again, however it does need testing, so if anyone out there with access to a satellite wants to give it a go be my guest.

I feel that most of these so called UFO's are generated by satellites, and not necessarily by some bizarre conspiracy to fraud the public. Some could actually just be generated by the solar panel reflections on the atmosphere, just rotating the panels to collect sun could on occasion cause it to happen and even the sun shining over the earths horizon and suddenly lightening up a dark satellite is potentially another way.

With a little practice and some calculations it would be possible to make such UFO's appear anywhere at anytime and seemingly move around at ridiculous speeds with complete disregard to areodynamics.

 

[Arquibus]

Many sightings can be attributed to satellites. I have on occasion seen them moving at night, and if you don't know what they are it can be quite puzzling. You can see one just sitting there, thinking that it's a star, when all of a sudden it will change position. It can go in any direction, any distance, and can be active or dormant for any length of time. However, most satellites have a pretty distinct appearance when you see them, and it doesn't always appear the same as the UFOs. Still, a nice theory that anyone with a satellite could probably take advantage of...where did I put that thing?

 

[SkinWalker]

I said that I had sight of the target, or did you just ignore that like any other bit of evidence of something that you don't understand.

Whether you had "sight" of the object or not is irrelevant. But since you bring it up, its just as likely that you imagined the "mass" between the lights or that the perceived "mass" was an illusion or trick of the lights. But even if it were, in fact, a solid mass between the lights, that doesn't imply that you correctly estimated its size.

Not knowing its size, you cannot therefore correctly estimate the range. Not knowing the range, you could not correctly estimate the velocity. Period. It isn't a subjective concept -it's math.

Plus, I have several questions for you. Why is it that you ignored my question about the toaster?

Because you demonstrated either a lack of ability to recognize the rhetorical (which puts your ability to recognize an unknown object at night at question as well) or the desire to troll. Regardless, it wasn't worth responding to. But if you must have an answer, sentient toast. Winged toasters with sentient toast pilots are at least as probable as alien driven spaceships.

Further, oh incredible scholar/photographer, what is your take on what happened? Assuming that you can bring yourself to act like there is a remote possibility that I am not lying, what would you suggest I saw?

I wouldn't make any suggestion at all on what you observed. Only that the probabilities of "alien" as you suggested when you said "may or may not be alien," based on the limited amount of data you provide or had access to are extremely remote.

Bats and insects don't reflect lights in a recurring, set pattern. Normal civillian aircraft are simply not capable of the performance that I saw. I know this because I am studying to become an aerospace engineer.

People are prone to see things they want or embellish their recollections of events when faced with events that are outside the ordinary. People are also prone to believe in all manner of supersition, paranormal, and supernatural phenomena, all which are consistent with their primary cultures. In the West (i.e. United States) this includes the X-Files culture. I know this because I am studying to become an anthropologist.

If you can prove me wrong, go for it, but as I believe you have said before, being the one that has a point to make, you indeed are the one that has to show my inaccuracy. Until then, my experience stands accurate.

Your experience is irrelevant. You have not given any empirical data regarding what you saw. I can no more prove you wrong than you can prove I do not have a purple dragon residing in my garage. But lucky for me, I have nothing to prove. You are the one that claims to have seen something that "may or may not be alien." I've only asserted that it most probably was "not." My assertion holds until such time as you provide something significant in the way of data. The probability, therefore, is that you witnessed something far more prosaic than an alien spacecraft.

 

[Arquibus]

Again, since you are such a master, what did I see? Were they civil aircraft? No. Were they normal animals? No. Were they reflected light? No. How do I know this?

Civil aircraft-incapable of such vast performance.

Animals-do not have lasting patterns of lights in the same format during motion at different angles.

Reflected lights don't blink to my knowledge, and even if they can, being that you like your facts so much, what is the probability of having eight lights (4 per object) arranged in the same way (a triangular form) flashing at equal intervals, and moving in the afformentioned way? Please enlighten me.

You say that I am the one that must prove myself, yet I only posted to show an experience that I had that is POSSIBLY related to the question of whether or not aliens exist. You, however, took it upon yourself to call me a liar, a moron, and finally try to blame me for starting the argument. I applaud you for your attempt at manipulation, but as the saying goes, you can't bullshit a bullshitter...

Also, to end on a lighter tone and stop from releasing any anger, what is the name of your purple dragon and how does sentient toast taste?

 

[SkinWalker]

Again, since you are such a master, what did I see?

How should I know? You don't even know. Nor have you supplied any data of empricism.

You, however, took it upon yourself to call me a liar, a moron, and finally try to blame me for starting the argument.

You are apparently reading a different thread. I never mentioned any of the above labels.

I applaud you for your attempt at manipulation, but as the saying goes, you can't bullshit a bullshitter...

So you're "bullshitting" us?

Also, to end on a lighter tone and stop from releasing any anger, what is the name of your purple dragon and how does sentient toast taste?

He is nameless and I don't eat toast.

I apologize if you inferred any hostility from my earlier posts, but in a forums such as this, where we discuss pseudoscience and its negative effects on society, we often have people jump in and sensationalize their "experiences" as proof of the supernatural and paranormal. They often appear shocked and amazed when they receive a skeptical and rational response. If I were to say, "wow, they were probably aliens!" you would undoubtedly feel some satisfaction but that satisfaction and my statements would be irrational.

What you actually observed may or may not be "alien," as you said. I'm merely presenting the reason why the latter is improbable. Not impossible -just improbable. It is far more likely that what you observed was something far more prosaic that you simply didn't have the experience to interpret or perhaps you simply weren't in a position to receive enough data to infer a cause. Regardless, the "alien" explanation, while possible, is the one of the most improbable.