Aliens?

Do 'aliens' exist?

  • Total voters
    59
If the universe is travelling faster than the speed of light, which it supposedly is
Then there is infinite matter in the univers
If there is infinite matter in the universe then there are infinite planets
In which case there are an infinite number of planets that can support life
In which case there are an infinite number of planets with life on them
In which case there are an infinite number of life forms that are at least as advanced as humans

I rest my case
 
oh>>>i wasn@t aware te universe was travelling faste tan te speed of lighyt>>>>>what are your sources for this info?
 
Fukushi, I'll summarise the central point I am making:

Evidence in the form of spectroscopic data of life on other planets around other stars will have little effect on humanity.

Why?
1. The majority of humans are concerned with surving the next 24 hours, not idly speculating on extra-terrestrial life.
2. Most of those who do have time to contemplate already believe intelligent life is abundant, so the announcement that evidence for life has been found will have minimal impact.
3. Those who think intelligent life is rare will point out that all this shows only that life is present. They will be unimpressed.
4. Those who think any kind of life is rare or non-existent, will point out that this only evidence for, not proof of, such life. They will be marginally concerned that their world view is being undermined, but will jump on the first research that demonstrates how the results could be achieved by non-biological mechanisms. (And I gauruntee that research will be forthcoming.)
5. Philosophers have already explored the significance of finding life elsewhere in the Universe and of not finding life elswhere in the Universe. The spectroscopic evidence simply effects who sits at the head of the table at the faculty dinner.

Net result of the announcement for 99.99999999% of the population. Damn little.
 
"In which case there are an infinite number of life forms that are at least as advanced as humans"
Why must you alien lovers always assume that "they" are more advanced than we?
I believe it is the same reason people believe in god. If we are the top of the line, then holy crap, the universe is in serious trouble!
 
" The majority of humans are concerned with surving the next 24 hours ...."

I doubt that very much. Perhaps in your part of the jungle but not everywhere else.
 
Giskard, doubt away. Sit in your comfortable middle class western environment, where the most serious concern is whether you can get the pay rise to let you get the plasma screen TV. Throughout South America, sub-Saharan Africa, the Nile Valley, the Indian sub-continent, central asia, much of the former Eastern Bloc the norm is surviving the next 24 hours. Do the numbers.

Oh, and on the subject of more advanced aliens: again, do the numbers. Given the age of the Universe, the age of the sun, the time taken for life to develop to the present point here, the odds strongly favour that if there are alien intelligences that virtually all of them will be more advanced than us. Do the numbers.
 
I agree that the universe may be infinite because it must be expanding into something. Unless God is expanding it every second so absolutely nothing does exist somewhere which would mean that if you were at the very edge of the universe you would not be able to travel any further but it's probably not possible to travel to the very edge since the universe is expanding faster then the speed of light and God probably set it as the upper limit of how fast were able to travel in space. Although if the universe is infinite I don't think there's an infinite number of stars and planets because they are created in the expanding universe, not what's beyond it.
 
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The universe as we know it is infinite. Thats an infinite chance of another life, I'd rather have that odd on lottery sundays anytime. Not only do I believe in Aliens they may be here on earth with us, just as how an immigrants blends in when in a foreign country. Are there aliens?...Better be, whats life if not for sharing and exploring the different hues and textures the universe has to offer. Hmmm....Its creepy....I mean that sound.....the sound of nothing in the universe but the voice of richard simons'. You alien reading this post you know who you are(lights a tobacco pipe)
 
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Ophiolite: "Giskard, doubt away. Sit in your comfortable middle class western environment, where the most serious concern is whether you can get the pay rise to let you get the plasma screen TV. Throughout South America, sub-Saharan Africa, the Nile Valley, the Indian sub-continent, central asia, much of the former Eastern Bloc the norm is surviving the next 24 hours. Do the numbers."

I do not need a raise, I already have my plasma TV. Why do you cry over the fate of so many humans just trying to survive the next 24 hours but then scorn the only system that will stop all that. The comfortable middle class western system. You cannot have it both ways.

"Oh, and on the subject of more advanced aliens: again, do the numbers. Given the age of the Universe, the age of the sun, the time taken for life to develop to the present point here, the odds strongly favour that if there are alien intelligences that virtually all of them will be more advanced than us. Do the numbers. "

Only if the numbers (which are conspicuously absent from your post) take into account that very few places in our galaxy are safe for a long enough time for intelligent life to develop. We are lucky to be in a very quiet area far from the ravages of what most of the denser areas endure. Perhaps, and since there is absolutely no evidence to the contrary, we are the luckiest of them all and are the only ones who happen to evolve in the perfect environment that has given us the time to get where we are.
 
Giskard said:
I do not need a raise, I already have my plasma TV. Why do you cry over the fate of so many humans just trying to survive the next 24 hours but then scorn the only system that will stop all that.
Click to expand...
Please don't introduce a strawman argument. The point under discussion is that my claim that the majority of the world's population is focused on surving the next 24 hours is correct and you were too narrow minded to see it until it was pointed out to you.
Giskard said:
Only if the numbers (which are conspicuously absent from your post) take into account that very few places in our galaxy are safe for a long enough time for intelligent life to develop.
Click to expand...
You really are going to need to learn to read properly if you wish to debate with me.
Point 1: I said "if there are alien intelligences that virtually all of them will be more advanced than us".
Point 2: You respond with another strawman argument (is that your stock in trade?) that we might be the only intelligent civilisation in the galaxy. I agree with that. I think we probably are. But that is not the condition I am considering - see point 1 above. Read it. Understand it.
Point 3: The numbers. I suggested you do the numbers. I was crediting you with sufficient intelligence and numeracy to undertake the task. Since you lack one or other or both I present them in the next point.
Point 4: Assume 50 intelligent civilisations in the galaxy including our own. Assume average duration of civilisation is 50000 years. (If it's good enough for the Order of the Dolphin it's good enough for me.) Assume civilisations come into existence at the same rate they cease. So, currently there are four civilisations younger than us and forty five that are older.
If you want to use different assumptions you had better have a very good justification for moving from these reasonable values. Most changes will increase the number of advanced civilisations, not decrease them.
The only change you can make that will tilt this is favour of us being the oldest and most advanced is to reduce the average duration of a civilisation to below five thousand years. You can justify that?

If you are going to respond please try to do so without resorting to transparent intellectually dishonest debating tactics. Let's stick to facts or justifiable postulates and we can all be happier.
 
Ophiolite; "Point 4: Assume 50 intelligent civilisations in the galaxy including our own. Assume average duration of civilisation is 50000 years. (If it's good enough for the Order of the Dolphin it's good enough for me.) Assume civilisations come into existence at the same rate they cease. So, currently there are four civilisations younger than us and forty five that are older"

You use the word "assume" three times. You set the conditions that will "prove" your point with assumptions. No proof, not even a firm base to build your argument. Ok, Let's assume there is only one intelligent civilization in the galaxy (pure fact!) which makes us the top of the food chain. Until you prove there are 49 others, you are just hoping. I suggest you learn the difference between what is real and what is pour wishful thinking.

Ophiolite:"The point under discussion is that my claim that the majority of the world's population is focused on surving the next 24 hours is correct and you were too narrow minded to see it until it was pointed out to you."

Again, where are you facts to back this up? Just a general statement. Nothing to support your claim. More wishful thinking? One simple question. If all of these third world people only focus on the next 24 hours, why do they bother to plant crops? Do they have magic beans that grow in 24 hours, or do the laws of physics cease to exist in their fields. Are you sure about that time?
 
Giskard - do the fucking calculations on point 4 and report back to me how foolish you are being. The alternative is I demosntrate how foolish you are being. The choice is yours.
On the 24-hour point, you are strawmanning again. I can't figure out if you are being deliberately deceutful or just dumb. The words used were focused on and concerned with - not exclusively, comprehensively and uniqely attentive to. Do you understand the difference.
Excuse me if I am coming across in an abrasive manner, but I suspect that you are a good deal smarter than your innane posts would indicate and I hate to see and intellect go to waste.
 
Ophiolite: "Giskard - do the fucking calculations on point 4 and report back to me how foolish you are being. The alternative is I demosntrate how foolish you are being. The choice is yours."

Point 4 ASSUMES facts not in evidence! You can go ahead and make up any assumption and calculate the result to "prove" anything you want. It is a tried and true tactic of the uninformed!!!!! You don't you "assume" those civilizations only last 500 years? Why not assume they don't come into existence at the same rate they cease? Why, because it blows your "proof" out of the water. So what you really have is YOUR desire and hope that this is what is. The only known, proven fact here is that there is ONE intelligent civilization in the whole Universe and it is us. When your friends form those advanced civilizations get here, come on over for a cook out and we'll discuss it then.
 
Ophiolite: "The words used were focused on and concerned with"

No, the words were "focused on surviving the next 24 hours" Not "conerned with". So the questions still stands, if they are focused on the next 24 hours, why do they plant crops that are months away from being harvested? I think the concern is certainly the next 24 hours, but their focus is on long term survival just like the rest of us. But let's get back to your original claim that "Throughout South America, sub-Saharan Africa, the Nile Valley, the Indian sub-continent, central asia, much of the former Eastern Bloc the norm is surviving the next 24 hours." Does this constitute "the majority of the world's population" which you added to the claim later? No North America, no Europe, no China, no Japan and of course your sweeping claim that everyone " throughout South America, sub-Saharan Africa, the Nile Valley, the Indian sub-continent, central asia, much of the former Eastern Bloc" is in the same dire straits is absurd. Your wild and all inclusive statements show a lack of understanding of the real world much as your statements about assumed advanced civilizations in the galaxy show how little you understand of the reality of our galaxy. Certainly I throw in a cute phrase or two (the magic beans and physics ceasing to exsist are a parady of lines in the movie "My Cousin Vinny") just to keep things light and interesting. By the way, phrases like "do the math" and "do the numbers" is a lazy man's way of presenting an argument. They are your math and numbers, do them yourself, post them and argue why you believe in them as correct.
 
Considering the fact that 99.9% of animal species have already gone extinct on earth through the five mass extinctions that the earth has gone through in its 4.5 billion year history, I think we can still look for former aliens on earth through fossils, or hopefully another more insightful method. There's a hell of a lot of those 99.9% species that we still have no idea what they were or what they even looked like.
 
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