allowing it to happen is not the same as doing it..think of child raising and how many times have you let your children learn for themselves
Absurd things Christians say...
- Thread starter takethewarhome
- Start date
allowing it to happen is not the same as doing it..think of child raising and how many times have you let your children learn for themselves
oops..sorry for the five posts in a row..err six now..
The problem is that the text indicates that God is actively and purposefully sending them a strong delusion Himself to ensure condemnation, not just stepping back and allowing it to happen.
If He just left them to their own "self-deception" and merely allowed them to remain in a state that they have chosen it would make at least some sense to me. But that is not what it teaches here.
"11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Thanks for your comments though...
So, No, i am not stating that God is actively lying to you. How can one say that God has prevented them from the Way when they have already assessed the way and rejected it? What the scripture are saying is that once you reject God's way then He gives you over to delusion and satan will be able to use his great deception to snare you.
Well i am not so sure about you. Never made a definite personal statement about you. I speculate about you ask you questions more so that you can answer them for yourself. As for the actual situation with you God knows what that is and what they will be into the future.
God does not Lie He only gives one to delusion when they have already reject His right hand of friendship. It is the anti-christ and his followers with the power of satan that will be lying to you.
God often cause confusion and panic and other things among the ranks of the enemies of His will. Read the bible again. God is who He is. And He is justified in doing What He wills to do. As He did with Pharaoh and others He will do again.
Silly question.
I have stated before to you time and time again. That the Laws God has given us are designed for mankind. He is God not a man therefore to assume that the Laws He gave us applies to Him is false. If you think they do then you are either raising yourself to God status or dragging God down to human status. You are not equal with God. But of course many people who reject God think they are.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Nice guy.
To bad he is such a failure with people. Aren't you glad atheists don't abandon you to delusion and destruction? :thumbsup:All Praise The Ancient Of Daze
Squirrel,
Agree, it was man. But man was claiming and many still do that these were the story of us. The story of creation etc. This has been the justification for the religion and a specific notion of what and who god is.
People have tried to move away from the bible being the word of god because of discoveries that clearly contradict it. So if that is the case.
Then what god are you believing in. It can't be the god of the bible. Because it can't be both right and so wrong in so many ways.
Here, from this link: http://www.believers.org/believe/bel191.htm
Divinely Inspired
The Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments, are verbally inspired of God and are the revelation of God to man, the infallible, authoritative rule of faith and conduct.
By the inspiration of the Scriptures we mean that "special divine influence on the minds of the writers of the Bible, in virtue of which their production, apart from errors in transcription, and when rightly interpreted, together constitute an infallible rule of faith and practice."
2 TIMOTHY 3:16 NKJ
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
The above phrase, given by inspiration of God, translates a single Greek word. Literally the word means God-breathed. The words divinely inspired have probably the nearest English equivalent meaning.
God breathed into man what man breathed out.
2 PETER 1:20-21 NIV
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 PETER 1:21 NEB
21 For it was not through any human whim that men prophesied of old; men they were, but, impelled by the Holy Spirit, they spoke the words of God.
HEBREWS 1:1 NKJ
1 God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets.
1 THESSALONIANS 2:13 NKJ
13 . . . when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
Truly Recorded
Although everything in the Bible is truly recorded, everything said in the Bible is not the truth.
For example, the Bible contains statements made by the devil and those who were against God. The statements they made are not necessarily true, but they truly said the statements as recorded.
So, we can trust the Bible -- all of it -- as God's message to us.
Purpose Of Bible
The purpose of the Bible is to reveal God to mankind, and get us to come to God through Jesus Christ, so we can know Him.
JOHN 1:1,14 NKJ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father . . . .
LUKE 24:27 NKJ
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
JOHN 20:31 NKJ
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
Yes, and I pre-empted everything with " I barely understand this myself so If you want more detailed or accurate information, do some research "
So if man confused and screwed up these revelations so badly, couldn't he just have easily confused the belief in Jesus as the son of god instead of just a mortal man ?
Well this is the common response and guess you would have to figure out if it makes sense that he would plant all of this evidence to confuse us. Not only would he have done this as a trick, but he made it bloody hard for us who are apparently the tools of the trick to find the evidence. I mean, we are finding new discoveries all the time but it's not like he just laid the bones out there one day.
I think for all of us, the questions are the most important, because often there is no answer, so the best question can leave us with the closest answer. That can be changed by new or better information of course.
In finite I mean the book is written. It's not a book that is mean't to be changed with new discoveries.
Ok, but by that reasoning it was mans doing that people like myself don't accept the texts as god breathed or god given. I don't see how god would have allowed that to occur.
You would think that if god divinely offered these words to men that he could make sure it was translated correctly.
I think it makes more sense considering the magnitude of the errors in the creation story alone that these are not the words of god, divinely offered in any way, man was not only the writer, he was the creator of the story.
If that is the case, which is what I believe, there is no justification in the texts for the belief.
At some point, people either believe they are the words of god or god given or not. If you believe the former, then you have to deal with the contradications, rationalize them etc.
It's for each of us to figure out.
Agree, it was man. But man was claiming and many still do that these were the story of us. The story of creation etc. This has been the justification for the religion and a specific notion of what and who god is.
People have tried to move away from the bible being the word of god because of discoveries that clearly contradict it. So if that is the case.
Then what god are you believing in. It can't be the god of the bible. Because it can't be both right and so wrong in so many ways.
Here, from this link: http://www.believers.org/believe/bel191.htm
Divinely Inspired
The Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments, are verbally inspired of God and are the revelation of God to man, the infallible, authoritative rule of faith and conduct.
By the inspiration of the Scriptures we mean that "special divine influence on the minds of the writers of the Bible, in virtue of which their production, apart from errors in transcription, and when rightly interpreted, together constitute an infallible rule of faith and practice."
2 TIMOTHY 3:16 NKJ
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
The above phrase, given by inspiration of God, translates a single Greek word. Literally the word means God-breathed. The words divinely inspired have probably the nearest English equivalent meaning.
God breathed into man what man breathed out.
2 PETER 1:20-21 NIV
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 PETER 1:21 NEB
21 For it was not through any human whim that men prophesied of old; men they were, but, impelled by the Holy Spirit, they spoke the words of God.
HEBREWS 1:1 NKJ
1 God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets.
1 THESSALONIANS 2:13 NKJ
13 . . . when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
Truly Recorded
Although everything in the Bible is truly recorded, everything said in the Bible is not the truth.
For example, the Bible contains statements made by the devil and those who were against God. The statements they made are not necessarily true, but they truly said the statements as recorded.
So, we can trust the Bible -- all of it -- as God's message to us.
Purpose Of Bible
The purpose of the Bible is to reveal God to mankind, and get us to come to God through Jesus Christ, so we can know Him.
JOHN 1:1,14 NKJ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father . . . .
LUKE 24:27 NKJ
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
JOHN 20:31 NKJ
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
Yes, and I pre-empted everything with " I barely understand this myself so If you want more detailed or accurate information, do some research "
So if man confused and screwed up these revelations so badly, couldn't he just have easily confused the belief in Jesus as the son of god instead of just a mortal man ?
Well this is the common response and guess you would have to figure out if it makes sense that he would plant all of this evidence to confuse us. Not only would he have done this as a trick, but he made it bloody hard for us who are apparently the tools of the trick to find the evidence. I mean, we are finding new discoveries all the time but it's not like he just laid the bones out there one day.
I think for all of us, the questions are the most important, because often there is no answer, so the best question can leave us with the closest answer. That can be changed by new or better information of course.
In finite I mean the book is written. It's not a book that is mean't to be changed with new discoveries.
Ok, but by that reasoning it was mans doing that people like myself don't accept the texts as god breathed or god given. I don't see how god would have allowed that to occur.
You would think that if god divinely offered these words to men that he could make sure it was translated correctly.
I think it makes more sense considering the magnitude of the errors in the creation story alone that these are not the words of god, divinely offered in any way, man was not only the writer, he was the creator of the story.
If that is the case, which is what I believe, there is no justification in the texts for the belief.
At some point, people either believe they are the words of god or god given or not. If you believe the former, then you have to deal with the contradications, rationalize them etc.
It's for each of us to figure out.
How do you know He/She/it is anything I think it is a 8 Leged 15 armed Green blob from the Vega system myself.
It appears to me based on the texts that god itself is the liar.
What kind of a lame weak god are we dealing with who offers us friendship and when we question it turns his back on us.
What kind of a friend turns his back on a friend in need. Real friends are willing to work through the tough times and the conflicts because they care about the other. They want to make the relationship work.
You would think that if god really wanted to save us and believing in it is the only way, then it would have gotten the damn texts straight and accurate for all times, so it would be a no brainer. There would be no doubt !
Adstar, do you think the entire bible is the word of god ?
Do you believe humans make errors ?
Yes this in deed what kind of God says Though shalt not covet the neighbours wife. And then go and have a Bastard son with some dudes woman like really. What kind of person?thing/god would dothat I tell you waht kind the kind that could careless about anythng but it's self likely really.
Or one that isn't there in the first place.
They've all met god. Especially Adstar. Ad and god hang out. They're friends and whatnot.
If we are born sinners, God knows this, yet for some unknown reason He gives us laws to live by and then expects us to follow them. I question the wisdom of making such tenets when it is a foregone conclusion that mankind will fuck them up. What good are laws in an infinitely perpetual disobedient lawbreaking community and why would He expect us to obey them? It makes no sense.
Then again, if we were born sinless then having divine laws would also make no sense. It would seem that there is no real reason for God to publish laws. Maybe we'll have to do it.
it changes with new understanding...
true,
as far as the rest of your post,i did check that link and stopped reading at
this is an authors opinion....its like he is saying if its not gods word then dont read the book...
im not saying dont read the book..im saying do like you just did..study it and others opinion of it, dont 'do as your told' by any of them,but 'think for yourself' and figure it out for yourself.. and dont stop doing that cause someday god will make it click!
How do you reconcile divinity (ie being free from material contamination) coexisting with free will (ie the propensity to make mistakes) in a population that is subordinate to the forces of the universe (ie cannot occupy the position of the summum bonum)?
AtTheZoneDotcom
Registered Member
The silliest thing I have heard Christians say is that Jesus said it is good for people be charitable and helpful to the poor but that he didn't feel you should have to or feel compelled to. Cristian Conservatives reconciling their greed and hatred of the poor in this manner thoroughly disgust me.
LOL..milk just came out my nose....(which is strange cause im not drinking any milk...)
so everyone else can be greedy? is that it? i dont belong to an orgaized religion but i dont have a problem with them and i am not very conservative but tbh, you advertise your web site here quite a few times and why is that? because you want it to fail or be successful for financial gain?
I was merely pointing out that it is totally unreasonable for God to publish laws for perpetual lawbreakers. I don't care how much free will they supposedly have. What it comes down to is that since everyone is predisposed for sinning then actual rule making is absurd.
If I was in a religion that believed such a thing as God 's laws then I would be forced to question their validity, just like I am now. God is supposed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer and He should be able to realize the unworthiness of such laws for inherently lawless people, so there's no reason for Him to legislate or enact anything. Which means that any law God has been given credit for cannot have been originated from Him, ergo mankind has written in these parts. Sorry to break it to you this way.
we still make our own choices..
Not ALL of science has been proven, there are theories still unproven, does that mean all of science is full of lies?
Last edited: