Abortion

Do You Believe in Abortion

  • Yes, its my body, its my right

    Votes: 23 41.1%
  • Yes, I Have Had One And It Made My Life Better

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Yes (other reason)

    Votes: 19 33.9%
  • No, Wheres the Babys Rights? He/She is an American Too

    Votes: 6 10.7%
  • No, It is Murder

    Votes: 10 17.9%
  • No, (Other Reason)

    Votes: 5 8.9%

  • Total voters
    56
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Except that here in the US, people voluntarily put organ donor status on their drivers licenses. Or the next of kin can give permission. There's no stealing involved.

Here in MI, you fill out a form and get a sticker at the DMV that goes on your license right above your picture.
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The other problem though is that sexual responsibility and self control is not just a foreign 'ideal' but is in strong opposition to THE fundamental drive of every species. ...

Which brings us full circle to instinct vs intellect. Regardless of laws or beliefs or religion there are biological, psychological and sociological drives that impel all animals. Simply wanting something to be a particular way will not make it so despite laws or social pressures or intellect.

You can outlaw abortion, but that will only make it illegal. It won't stop it and it will increase the dangerous consequences tremendously.
 
the only thing fucked up is you demanding nature conform to your morality.

that's hilarious. i'm actually proposing, not demanding, the obvious solution...

that our morality conforms to nature.

it's not even about morality. morality is man-made bullshit. it's law. it's natural law. the god-given NATURAL consequences of our own actions and behavior.
 
that's hilarious. i'm actually proposing, not demanding, the obvious solution...

that our morality conforms to nature.

it's not even about morality. morality is man-made bullshit. it's law. it's natural law. the god-given NATURAL consequences of our own actions and behavior.

bullshit shit you don't want people to have sex. well guess what alot of higher animals have sex for other reasons than procreation. and for this fucking bullshit that babies are conseques blah blah blah so we should keep them so people won't have sex guess what people have been aborting babies since before we could write.
 
you're right, it is THE fundamental drive of the species. so let's FOSTER that! but society does NOT foster that, it makes excuses for it. having sex is a HUGE responsibility. right up there with procuring food and water and shelter. but society doesn't foster the concept of responsibility in any of those things. quite the opposite actually. we foster the idea that sex is a recreational pastime, with no consequences whatsoever. society is all about "how can i get out of the consequences of my actions?" that's what our society fosters.

unbounded reproduction = fundamental drive of species
unbounded reproduction = bad consequences

that's quite a disconnect. so why don't we focus on responsible ways to bridge that gap? because nobody wants to deal with the truth and nobody wants to be responsible.

the truth is that SEX MAKES BABIES AND PARENTS. so if somebody doesn't want either of those things, then they shouldn't be having sex.

our society has some fucked up priorities. greed, lust, and sloth topping the list.
Well, again I mostly agree. But history, I think, demonstrates without a doubt that no amount of social conditioning will change the sexual behavior of people. The only thing that has any apparent effect for controlling population growth is raising the living standard of the population. More affluent populations have fewer children. Check it out. Raising populations out of poverty has nothing but positive effects for everyone, as far as I can tell.
 
What if you DON'T WANT a child??

Yes, I know, get surgically sterilized. I want to do that, but I doubt they'd do it on a 19 year old.

why would anyone not WANT a child?

and if the circumstances aren't right to take care of one properly, then keep your legs shut.

what's the problem with that?
 
Here in MI, you fill out a form and get a sticker at the DMV that goes on your license right above your picture.
DL_170964_7.gif
Same here in PA, but there's no extra form that I've ever had to fill out. They just say "You want to be an organ donor?" and you say "Yep" and they pop the sticker on.
 
why would anyone not WANT a child?

and if the circumstances aren't right to take care of one properly, then keep your legs shut.

what's the problem with that?

The problem is your trying to push your bullshit prudish victorian ideas of morality on some one else thats the problem. What fucking right do you have to tell her not to have sex? rather than having her shut her legs we would be much better served if you shut your mouth.
 
Because I think taking stuff from dead people is morbid. Just like stealing a dead person's clothes or money. "Well they don't need it anymore" is true, but the whole subject matter is still quite gloomy to think about.

It can only be done if that person has agreed to allow it when they were live an aware. (except in limited cases of legal guardianship).
 
Which brings us full circle to instinct vs intellect. Regardless of laws or beliefs or religion there are biological, psychological and sociological drives that impel all animals. Simply wanting something to be a particular way will not make it so despite laws or social pressures or intellect.

You can outlaw abortion, but that will only make it illegal. It won't stop it and it will increase the dangerous consequences tremendously.
Totally agree. See my post about standards of living. For some reason (I think there's still some debate as to exactly why) but affluent populations have fewer and better cared-for children. They can afford birth control? They want to spend their resources on more luxuries and personal endeavors rather than on more children? And so on? :shrug:
 
Except that here in the US, people voluntarily put organ donor status on their drivers licenses. Or the next of kin can give permission. There's no stealing involved.

You don't need a donor sticker to have your organs harvested, and even if the hospital has your personal permission, I still think it's a gloomy topic. Sorry that my feelings boggle you so.
 
bullshit shit you don't want people to have sex. well guess what alot of higher animals have sex for other reasons than procreation. and for this fucking bullshit that babies are conseques blah blah blah so we should keep them so people won't have sex guess what people have been aborting babies since before we could write.

and if the only consequence of having sex was babies then every coupling would result in a pregnancy. :confused:

Nature wouldn't have arranged it to only happen occasionally.
 
It can only be done if that person has agreed to allow it when they were live an aware. (except in limited cases of legal guardianship).

Unless it's in your will and you explicitly stated otherwise, your family can give permission to have your organs donated. But this has nothing to do with abortion.
 
You don't need a donor sticker to have your organs harvested, and even if the hospital has your personal permission, I still think it's a gloomy topic. Sorry that my feelings boggle you so.

Certainly your right to hold that opinion. I think of it more as saving or improving as many lives as possible. :)
 
You don't need a donor sticker to have your organs harvested, and even if the hospital has your personal permission, I still think it's a gloomy topic. Sorry that my feelings boggle you so.

No problem for me. You feel the way you feel. But yes, you do need a sticker. Or an organ donor card. Or the permission of a family member. The harvesting of organs is prohibited by many religions and without permission from someone (unless you're a John/Jane Doe with no relatives or documentation) is not legal.

If this is not true please post a reliable source link and I will humbly retract my statement.
 
Well, again I mostly agree. But history, I think, demonstrates without a doubt that no amount of social conditioning will change the sexual behavior of people. The only thing that has any apparent effect for controlling population growth is raising the living standard of the population. More affluent populations have fewer children. Check it out. Raising populations out of poverty has nothing but positive effects for everyone, as far as I can tell.

isn't that because they can then afford birth control, and now have better things to do with their time, like making money and paying taxes, instead of having sex?

the only reason that poverty even exists is because of greed. the only reason that unwanted children exist is because of lust and the irresponsible behavior it drives.

society today tells people that they can circumvent the natural consequences of having sex, instead of telling them to be responsible for them.

i don't buy into the whole celibacy impossibility/pity-party thing. i made the decision to be celibate for 8 years of my life, during my sexual peak. did it hurt me? no. was it ideal? no. but we live in an imperfect world, and rich or poor you have a choice...am i going to given in and perpetuate it or am i going to take responsibility and try to make it a better place?
 
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