Abortion

[sifreak21]

sorry I don't understand your statement

you made a statement about karma and previous life trying to rationalize that one was the easiest explination for the other both of which are unproven

 

[lightgigantic]

you made a statement about karma and previous life trying to rationalize that one was the easiest explination for the other both of which are unproven

I'm still not 100% on your statement.

I don't know what being the "easiest statement" has to do with anything, since its a bit of a loaded term.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

There are many things one can do to warrant the karma for being killed in the womb. The most obvious is to have done it in a previous life.

oK... so you'r a reincarnaton beleiver type person.!!!

LG
...what I would do is create a virtual world where persons who had the inclination to misuse their free will in destructive ways could play out their dramas.

I would also engineer the virtual world to be inherently troublesome in many ways, particularly to the degree that one's habits are destructive, so that such people could come to their senses (by their own free will). Upon coming back to their senses, they would be re-socialized into the "real" world.

(BTW this also happens to be what god has actually done)

So effectivly... God creates situations in which people will be tortured until they see thangs his way... an you an God define that as them usin ther free will.!!!

So when you see bad thangs hapen to people... you thank they deserve it because it will teech 'em to beleive like you do.!!!

I now have a beter understandin of you'r ideas of free will an punishment.!!!

Thanks

 

[visceral_instinct]

Motherfucker, I ever get pregnant, I am having an abortion.

Deal with it.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Lucy -

I can only repeat myself:

An intelligent person knows that there are better things to do in order to find satisfaction and meaning in life than to limit themselves to behaviors that any animal is capable of.

No you are not addressing any of my questions with the above. A yes or no for each will suffice:

Are you saying that you do not believe in any sexual contact between human beings unless its for procreation purposes?

In which case couples would only engage in sexual activity a handful of times during their lifetime solely when trying to reproduce?

Which brings me to the following question which is whether you believe that human beings belong to nature?

Do you think of human beings as being an animal within the constraints of nature?

Do you believe that its the goal of a human being to live like a monk?

By the way I realize it may not have occurred to you but most people do not engage in sex because simply to find 'satisfaction and meaning' in their lives. You can refrain from sex and still not have a meaningful or satisfying life and vice verse.

 

[lightgigantic]

oK... so you'r a reincarnaton beleiver type person.!!!

:bravo:

So effectivly... God creates situations in which people will be tortured until they see thangs his way... an you an God define that as them usin ther free will.!!!

its the nature of anything that it has a right and wrong way to be utilized - if you add free will to that, then it also stands that it can will itself to be used in an incorrect manner, thus a conflict ensues.
It happens all the time on a daily basis

So when you see bad thangs hapen to people... you thank they deserve it because it will teech 'em to beleive like you do.!!!

err ... no
when I see bad things happen to people I think its a consequence of their actions ... whether they can be taught from it depends on how they negotiate the learning curve

I now have a beter understandin of you'r ideas of free will an punishment.!!!

Thanks

no problem

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I now have a beter understandin of you'r ideas of free will an punishment.!!!

Thanks

Have you ever had a discussion on abortion where a pro lifer didn't pin the idea on their belief in whatever god and thereby attempt to force that belief on society as a whole? There are a few but very very few.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Motherfucker, I ever get pregnant, I am having an abortion.

Deal with it.

Have you seen this?

http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm

They're having a laugh.

 

[lightgigantic]

Have you ever had a discussion on abortion where a pro lifer didn't resort to god? There are a few but very very few.

not sure why that constitutes a blow beneath the belt or something

 

[lightgigantic]

Motherfucker, I ever get pregnant, I am having an abortion.

Deal with it.

Its not what we have to deal with that is the problem ....

 

[Pasta]

On a lighter note, anyone else remember when this ELO song was controversial because some people thought it was sending an anti-abortion message :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivFM0pYyUcY

"It's a living thing, it's a terrible thing to lose,....It's a given thing, what a terrible thing to lose"

 

[cluelusshusbund]

...what I would do is create a virtual world where persons who had the inclination to misuse their free will in destructive ways could play out their dramas.

I would also engineer the virtual world to be inherently troublesome in many ways, particularly to the degree that one's habits are destructive, so that such people could come to their senses (by their own free will). Upon coming back to their senses, they would be re-socialized into the "real" world.

(BTW this also happens to be what god has actually done)

So effectivly... God creates situations in which people will be tortured until they see thangs his way... an you an God define that as them usin ther free will.!!!

its the nature of anything that it has a right and wrong way to be utilized - if you add free will to that, then it also stands that it can will itself to be used in an incorrect manner, thus a conflict ensues.
It happens all the time on a daily basis

I take that as a "yes"... God creates situations in which people will be tortured until they see thangs his way... an you an God define that as them usin ther free will.!!!

...and hell, or even in a broad sense - the arrival of suffering - is a consequence of one's attitude (and resultant actions) to things around them ... which more often than not is a result of... ...bad intelligence

So when you see bad thangs hapen to people... you thank they deserve it because it will teech 'em to beleive like you do.!!!

err ... no

But earlier when i ask:::

Do people who act on "bad intelegence" deserve to suffer... you answrd:::

"only when they act on it"

oK... i will take that an no an yes :shrug:

whether they can be taught from it depends on how they negotiate the learning curve

Ah ha... so thats why reincarnaton is needed... cause aparently som people can tolerate the torturous situatons God creates for 'em beter than others can... so God makes 'em be borned agan an agan an tortures 'em agan an agan untill they get ther mind rite an start beleivin like you do.!!!

I still dont understan why God creates people wit the propensity to make bad choises an then tortures 'em for behavin the way he created 'em to behave... but then i dont have a hot-line to God to receive such knowledge... which begs the queston... how do you know all the clames you made about "God" are true.???

 

[lightgigantic]

So effectivly... God creates situations in which people will be tortured until they see thangs his way... an you an God define that as them usin ther free will.!!!

Well yeah sure ... the reason you don't see cannibals roaming down your street is because society works along the same lines (mind you, if you want to be a cannibal, that's your choice ...)

So when you see bad thangs hapen to people... you thank they deserve it because it will teech 'em to beleive like you do.!!!

once again, depends on how sharp they are on the learning curve

But earlier when i ask:::

Do people who act on "bad intelegence" deserve to suffer... you answrd:::

"only when they act on it"

oK... i will take that an no an yes

so now you want to omit the "and make them believe like you do" in your questioning ... fine
:shrug:

Ah ha... so thats why reincarnaton is needed... cause aparently som people can tolerate the torturous situatons God creates for 'em beter than others can... so God makes 'em be borned agan an agan an tortures 'em agan an agan untill they get ther mind rite an start beleivin like you do.!!!

don't know what you're talking about here, but reincarnation is needed because a facility is required for the living entity to fulfill their desires.

If you've ever seen a pig eat stool and be mighty pleased with it, you can understand that "torture" probably isn't the right word for it ... you could say that the living entity is tortured by adopting material desire however

I still dont understan why God creates people wit the propensity to make bad choises an then tortures 'em for behavin the way he created 'em to behave... but then i dont have a hot-line to God to receive such knowledge... which begs the queston... how do you know all the clames you made about "God" are true.???

its just general philosophy

for instance if you could understand what "free will" entails (never mind god for the moment) you could understand that if one has it, its not really possible to be made to do things (like make bad choices for instance).

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Have you ever had a discussion on abortion where a pro lifer didn't pin the idea on their belief in whatever god and thereby attempt to force that belief on society as a whole?

Well thats been the norm... but an unusual thang about this thred... the "pro-lifers" are "pro-choise"... in that they dont want to make abortion illegal... they want the final choise to be up the woman.!!!

It seems to me ther mor up-set about so many people havin guilt-free orgasims... while theyr'e havin to make do wit the occasional wet-dream :shrug:

Im not sure how serous LG is about his no orgasm for pleasure beleifs... but the men in the Hale-Bopp cult (Heavens Gate) cut ther nuts off for ther God.!!!

</jus sayin>

 

[lightgigantic]

Im not sure how serous LG is about his no orgasm for pleasure beleifs... but the men in the Hale-Bopp cult (Heavens Gate) cut ther nuts off for ther God.!!!

</jus sayin>

lol
as if that solves anything

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Origionaly posted by cluelusshusbund
“ I still dont understan why God creates people wit the propensity to make bad choises an then tortures 'em for behavin the way he created 'em to behave... but then i dont have a hot-line to God to receive such knowledge... which begs the queston... how do you know all the clames you made about "God" are true.??? ”

its just general philosophy

So its not beleifs you'r certan of.!!!

for instance if you could understand what "free will" entails (never mind god for the moment) you could understand that if one has it, its not really possible to be made to do things (like make bad choices for instance).

Jus mor obfuscation/double-talk... i dont take you any mor serously than Sarkus does.!!!


A-Man

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Well thats been the norm... but an unusual thang about this thred... the "pro-lifers" are "pro-choise"... in that they dont want to make abortion illegal... they want the final choise to be up the woman.!!!

It seems to me ther mor up-set about so many people havin guilt-free orgasims... while theyr'e havin to make do wit the occasional wet-dream :shrug:

but the men in the Hale-Bopp cult (Heavens Gate) cut ther nuts off for ther God.!!!

</jus sayin>

LOL!

Well I think its fine for people to disagree with abortion or think those who choose to abort as somehow evil and endowed with murderous instincts. My concern is mostly for the law, the presence of choice.

Is it true that the Heaven's Gate members had their testes removed? I have never heard that. Why would they need to cut off their testes? I mean they were planning to just 'do it' right? And meet up with that great saucer in the sky? Are these the guys you are referring to?

Ascetics can be a miserable, life hating lot especially if they take it on early in their life. Everything is a burden, a drudgery. There is little joy in them, they see and find little joy in life. All their natural instincts and desires are suppressed because they think there is something wrong with them to begin with (shame), some of them literally hate to see that others enjoy their stages of passions and desires, all the Dionysian elements. The austere life can be bleak indeed. No balance and rigid thinking. To deny everything in life is to deny life itself. I agree with Henry Miller who finally came to the conclusion that the only real liberation was to say yes to life. All of it. Though it be dramatic messy wondrous ugly violent beautiful magical frightening etc one can reconcile the neurotic conflicts without resorting to self denial or most importantly ones nature. I just think that its a way drawn from fear of life not the embracement of it no matter how they praise the dogma.

I mean 'god' is supposed to be in all those tiny details yes? Nothing that is 'not' of god? TOOT TOOT!

'dont worry. be happy'

 

[lightgigantic]

So its not beleifs you'r certan of.!!!

Its not clear how certain or even uncertain belief makes for wacky definition of free will

Jus mor obfuscation/double-talk... i dont take you any mor serously than Sarkus does.!!!

trying to pass free will off as being made to take certain choices is even more strange than getting neutered as a solution to sex desire

 

[wynn]

No you are not addressing any of my questions with the above.

Yes, I have addressed all of your quesions. If you don't like my answer, then there is nothing I can do anymore. :shrug:

 

[wynn]

I agree with Henry Miller who finally came to the conclusion that the only real liberation was to say yes to life. All of it.

Talk about square circles!