Well duh. One comes from the breast and one comes from the uterus.
if it's outside the woman's body, then how is this relevant?
Abortion
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Well duh. One comes from the breast and one comes from the uterus.
if it's outside the woman's body, then how is this relevant?
Bells
Staff member
Again with the pro-abortion.
To be honest with you, I have a hard time extrapolating aborting a 12 week old embryo and growing a human being to adulthood artificially to harvest their organs. I've heard some wild and weird arguments from the pro-life section in my time, but that one has to take the cake.
Before it is viable, it has no rights. The woman's body can expell it at any time without warning and it is not deemed a crime. If it did have individual rights, then you'd have women having to have their menstrual wastes being tested in case she committed involuntary murder. Nor does it have an identity.
You are aware that the scientific community does do tests on embryo's they 'bring to life' themselves, don't you? But such tests are tightly controlled and they cannot grow the embryo's past a certain point. You are aware of that, aren't you?
The harvesting of organs would entail growing it to the point where it is viable and beyond, where it is given rights by law, ergo growing it to that point and beyond simply for the purpose of harvesting for organs is not ethical.
lightgigantic:
It is my understanding that for most women, abortion is not in any way a "default" position. Those who want sex without procreation tend to default to using contraception first and foremost. Those for whom contraception fails for whatever reason, or who are raped, have a very difficult decision to make regarding abortion. Most do not take that decision lightly.
That is doing a disservice to non-human animals, who are not "lower/worse" than human beings.
I've noticed that artists often have lots of casual sex. That suggests to me that art and sex are not mutually exclusive. Not to mention all the art that has sexual themes.
It is my understanding that for most women, abortion is not in any way a "default" position. Those who want sex without procreation tend to default to using contraception first and foremost. Those for whom contraception fails for whatever reason, or who are raped, have a very difficult decision to make regarding abortion. Most do not take that decision lightly.
That is doing a disservice to non-human animals, who are not "lower/worse" than human beings.
I've noticed that artists often have lots of casual sex. That suggests to me that art and sex are not mutually exclusive. Not to mention all the art that has sexual themes.
actually I was talking about the default position of society and not just women in particular. IOW there is a whole attitude to the act of sex (which is after all, the very means of procreation) which makes abortion (or some other nefarious solution) the default position.
Kind of like if one is planting seeds, expect trees to grow ... and if you don't to grow trees, why plant seeds?
So if one takes the act of sex lightly, the it comes as no surprise of the default scenario that threatens to arise.
To be lower is not to render something worse.
For instance preschool mathematics is certainly lower in contrast to tertiary mathematics. That doesn't make it worse ... unless of course one has a tertiary student that is stabilized on such a level of performance ... in fact it probably makes them worse than a preschooler.
In the same way, human society that insists on being socialized around lower propensities is certainly worse since the unique ability of higher intelligence is hijacked by sensual pursuits .... IOW the extra intelligence on offer in the human form of life is not meant to be applied to meeting the bodily necessities of life (in fact such an application of intelligence seems to threaten the entire planet)
That's a whole topic in itself, but I will try and reduce it to two points
- Post industrial era (with all its emergent horrors - such as WW1 & 2) saw both the emergence and portrayal of the artist as a more sort of primal entity (IOW the artist as the "tortured soul", "bohemian", "madman" etc). Previously it was a different situation
- Art has a preoccupation with beauty, which in a more basely situated society becomes a preoccupation with sex (so beauty and sex become synonymous)
Actually much in the same way that such art sustains one on a lower level of performance, so does science (or philosophy or morality) similarly hijacked by the pursuit of bodily necessities of life
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Planting trees doesn't make one orgasm and make funny faces and sounds.
Because the sole purpose of planting seeds is to grow trees. Like it or not, the main purpose of sex for human beings is not procreation.
making its purpose any other means it is artificial ... which then requires a host of artificial procedures to solve the consequent problems
so its all simply an issue of where the said thing is to be removed from the anatomy?
Do you think this view is shared by the professional medical industry?
not sure if I understand your question (misused my free will in regard to what?) but generally it begins with something like "it seemed like a good idea at the time ...."
making its purpose any other means it is artificial ... which then requires a host of artificial procedures to solve the consequent problems
My endocrine system kinda disagrees with you there. And probably that of every other human over the age of 14.
We want sex, but don't want a baby right now. How is that artificial?
the moment you deck yourselves out with a host of artificial preventative measures of course.
I missed the part in the link where they kill their young in the womb or even some other part that suggests the main purpose is something other than procreation
So what did you mean by this:::
"what I would do is create a virtual world where persons who had the inclination to misuse their free will in destructive ways could play out their dramas."
Are ther reasons why som people are inclined to misuse ther free will.???
oK... in what way does it depend on the person... an you for esample... was ther reasons why you misused you'r free will.???
In the regard you spoke of earlier:::
"what I would do is create a virtual world where persons who had the inclination to misuse their free will in destructive ways"
God created everbody equal... so what makes som people thank usin ther free will in destructive ways seems like a good idea... i mean... are ther reasons which causes certan people to use ther free will in destructive ways... such as whare they was borned... who ther parents are... ect.???
I'm not sure I understand your q.
Do you think that it is the nature of having free will that everyone who has it uses it in the same manner?
As for the type of association one takes (family, geography, species etc) upon taking birth in the material world, the bull has already fled the gate on that one (IOW birth in the material world already a consequence of having utilized one's free will) ... that said, there is no material condition (at least as far as the human form is concerned) that can prevent one from taking up the devotional service to god.
Not if its met by a strong urge to have an abortion .... so actually sexual reproduction is benefited by a strong urge to accept the role of parent
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
That not what you were talking about. You said: "making its [sex] purpose any other [then procreation] means it is artificial.."
Clearly you are wrong.
we were talking about rendering sex outside of issues for procreation ... a position not at all established by a population of randy monkeys
Yes, this is the way I tend to think about free will too. I suppose such (mis)understanding of free will is a given in the materially conditioned form of life.
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